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Tier 10 super heavy spall liner - i think its broke


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Arshee #1 Posted 01 August 2018 - 12:58 AM

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So i play an E-100 in top tier 10 games, as because of this i see a lot of type 5 heavies. 

unsurprisingly they all use the HE spamming gun, knowing this when i bought this tank i put the super heavy spall liner in, to reduce this damage from them and artillery.

 BUT, considering my last game, i honestly think that the spall liner isn't working, hear me out. 

super heavy spall liner -

+50% protection from ramming and explosions

+50% to protection of crew from injuries

-10% stun duration.

now unless im understanding this wrong, +50% protection would essentially cut the damage done in half correct?

because in my most recent games in my E-100, ive been hit by type 5 heavies, using standard HE, for 450+ damage

by my understanding, this means that the full damage would of been in the region of 900+ damage if im understanding correctly?

the highest damage done to me this way was 504 which, by the same logic, would do over 1000 damage.

which is impossible unless he penetrates the front of my 200mm armor thick turret. 

so i think the spall liner is broken or bugged, or am i understanding the way its use wrong. 

 

please some get me a dev or explain how it works because i use a spall liner to stop HE spam, if its broke or just doesnt do what i need whats the point?



vasilinhorulezz #2 Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:04 AM

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HE damage for non penetrating hits are cut in half from the alpha off the gun (in the case of type 5, 1400/2=700 for the premium HE)

but the +/-25% RNG still applies, so a non penetrating HE shell, from a Type 5 against 0 armor will do in-between 525-875 damage.

So, the mitigation from the spall-liner comes after the damage roll.


Edited by vasilinhorulezz, 01 August 2018 - 01:08 AM.


TheLegendOfMyLittleKitty #3 Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:07 AM

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http://forum.worldof...l-liner-tested/

 

Take a look at this somewhat old test.

It still applies to todays game.

 

What it basicly sais is that it reduces the amount of damage taken by just a little. (300 --> 270 dmg)

 



Balc0ra #4 Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:22 AM

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As it clearly says. Increases protection. It doesn't say it reduces damage by 50%. Spall liners increases your armor more or less vs HE. And the more armor an HE shells hits that fails to pen. The harder it will be to fully damage you fully. Tho vs lesser HE shells it might even help to nullify the damage due to the extra armor. Tho don't expect that from the Type 5 HE. But you might have that kind of luck vs lower tier arty etc, like a tier 8 with a stock gun. As they can even have sub 40 pen, vs the 75 the Type 5 has. 

 

So no it doesn't reduce the damage you take by half as such. That and it won't work if the HE shells fully pens. 



Geno1isme #5 Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:08 AM

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Spall liner only affects the last factor. The protection therefore scales with the nominal thickness of the armor, on a 200mm plate HE splash damage is reduced by 110 points (330 points in total), on a 50mm plate only by 27 points (for a total of 82 points, always assuming a super heavy spall liner). And the point where the blast wave is calculated doesn't have to be where the shell hit your tank, e.g. when hitting the turret ring on the E100 the splash will go into the engine deck with just 40mm of armor where the spall liner has no real effect, so the 250mm turret armor become irrelevant. Similar when hitting the rangefinder splash will go into the turret roof with 65mm.



Dava_117 #6 Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:21 AM

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HE have a complex mechanics:

-If it pens, it deal full damage;

-If it doesn't pen, the game calculate the damage inflicted in a circular area and taking the higher value as effective one. The damage calculation is based on this formula:

Damage=(Alpha/2)*(1-distance/blast_radius)-(armour*1.1*spall_liner_coeff)

 

This means that:

-super heavy spall liner don't half the damage but double the armour effectiveness

-if an HE shell have enought blast radius, it may splash some thin armour like hull roof. E100 hull roof is 40mm that became a bit more than 60 HP reduction on the alpha.

On E100 ideally you want to bite the type to shoot the upper part of the turre, just above the gun, or your UFP, so that the shell can't splash any thin armour plate.

 

tl:dr

Spall liner just double the armour, but HE can splash thin plate, reducing the effectiveness of spall liner against high alpha, high blast radius HE shell.



tankqull #7 Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:48 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 01 August 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

 

HE have a complex mechanics:

-If it pens, it deal full damage;

-If it doesn't pen, the game calculate the damage inflicted in a circular area and taking the higher value as effective one. The damage calculation is based on this formula:

Damage=(Alpha/2)*(1-distance/blast_radius)-(armour*1.1*spall_liner_coeff)

 

This means that:

-super heavy spall liner don't half the damage but double the armour effectiveness

-if an HE shell have enought blast radius, it may splash some thin armour like hull roof. E100 hull roof is 40mm that became a bit more than 60 HP reduction on the alpha.

On E100 ideally you want to bite the type to shoot the upper part of the turre, just above the gun, or your UFP, so that the shell can't splash any thin armour plate.

 

tl:dr

Spall liner just double the armour, but HE can splash thin plate, reducing the effectiveness of spall liner against high alpha, high blast radius HE shell.

 

or in other words its 99% of the time not worth it.

Dr_ownape #8 Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:49 AM

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i use it on Type 5 and Maus, not really to mitigate against damage but against arty and crew injuries

Thornvalley #9 Posted 01 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

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Had it on my Maus for ranked yesterday, where I got the impression that damage got significantly reduced. Maybe it was just luck, but I absorbed several IS-7 HE-rounds completely and Type 5's often scored below 200 damage hits (non-prem). Anyways, the reduction in stun time and extra crew protection are nice bonuses.

 

Also, is there a difference between normal armor and spaced armor for the calculation?


Edited by Thornvalley, 01 August 2018 - 11:27 AM.


Dava_117 #10 Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:08 PM

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View Posttankqull, on 01 August 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

or in other words its 99% of the time not worth it.

 

It depends on the tank. I use it in KV-4 and ST-I where is quite useful to reduce damage taken by arty splash and derpgun. Yesterday, in example, I completely absorbed 2 O-Ho HE in ST-I while in KV-4 they usually score less than 120-130HP. 

Balc0ra #11 Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:55 PM

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View Posttankqull, on 01 August 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

or in other words its 99% of the time not worth it.

 

Depends. As when an HE shell fails to pen, it makes a small sphere and looks for the weakest part of your armor to denote the cone in that damage modules etc. So if that is a thin area, then no. If its a thick area. Then yes more so. Or on arty splashes that hit the ground is the best use for it with that regard. 

 

But tbh I mainly have it on ramming tanks, or HT's that loses half their crew when you get hit with HE. Like the KV-220 that suffers from that badly. Or the Type 4 so that ppl that ram me die instantly. So it's not just for reduced HE damage. Heck I even have it on a few SPG's for when I get countered. So if they miss... I take less damage. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 01 August 2018 - 01:57 PM.


BillCarson1997 #12 Posted 01 August 2018 - 09:18 PM

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i installed it on my VK B and once i got hit by a type 5 for 600 dmg, i switched to stabilizer. Hell, even torsion bars is a better choice than this turd

Nishi_Kinuyo #13 Posted 01 August 2018 - 11:32 PM

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