Jump to content


Top tanks by tier


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

Breandan #1 Posted 05 August 2018 - 04:58 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012

I took at look at win-rate for each tier in vbaddict.net. Here is a list of the top tanks per tier by win-rate, excluding tanks that don't currently appear on the in-game tech tree (so for instance Type 64 is there, but Cromwell B isn't). N.B. Very often these are not the top tanks listed by vbaddict.net, but they are the top tanks that you can buy with credits or gold today.

 

Tier 1: Kolohousenka - Czech Light. (though nearly all Tier 1s on tanks.gg have only a small data set)

Tier 2: M2 - British Light

Tier 3: T-127 - Russian Light Premium

Tier 4: Luchs - German Light

Tier 5: Archer - British TD (not the T67!)

Tier 6: AT 8 - British TD (not the Type 64!)

Tier 7: AT 15A - British TD Premium

Tier 8: T28 - American TD

Tier 9: T95 - American TD

Tier X: Object 268 version 4 - Russian TD

 

Well, that's whatvbaddict.net had, excluding "special" tanks that aren't in today's tech tree. What surprised me was the preponderance of TDs. Forget mediums and heavies, it seems.

 

I did the same for WN8 rating for each tier in vbaddict.net. Here is a list of the top tanks per tier by WN8 efficiency, excluding tanks that don't currently appear on the in-game tech tree

 

Tier 1: Fiat 3000 - Italian Light

Tier 2: M2 - British Light

Tier 3:  Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t) - German light

Tier 4: Valentine II - Russian Light Premium

Tier 5: Bishop - British SPG (my biggest surprise of the day).

Tier 6: Type 64 - Chinese Light Premium

Tier 7: T71 DA - American Light

Tier 8: SU14-2 - Russian SPG (after 8 better vehicles not in the tech tree).

Tier 9: AMX 13 90 - French Light

Tier X: 113 - Chinese Heavy

 

No TDs at all. Mostly lights. What is going on?


 

Edited by NickMustaine, 06 August 2018 - 02:50 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #2 Posted 05 August 2018 - 05:48 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 45744 battles
  • 544
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013
Nerfs for British tanks incoming.

Breandan #3 Posted 05 August 2018 - 06:05 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 05 August 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

Nerfs for British tanks incoming.

Lol, yeah! I was surprised how many British vehicles were in the top 10 by win-rate.



SuedKAT #4 Posted 05 August 2018 - 06:23 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,291
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014

View PostBreandan, on 05 August 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

No TDs at all. Mostly lights. What is going on?

LT's requirements in terms of damage is lower than most classes, as an example at tier 6:

 

MT-25, 725 damage and you reach purple stats.

T-34-85, 1075 damage and you reach purple stats, note that both the Rudy and especially the T-34-85M require more due to "balance".

SU-100, 1200 damage and you reach purple stats.

KV-85, 1225 damage and you reach purple stats.

SU-8, 1475  damage and you reach purple stats.

 

An SU-100 camping base and derping the last 2 enemies in the face when they come looking for him will not generate much WN8, but more WR, an MT-25 scouting and doing damage when it matters will grant a lot of WN8 but most of the time not so much WR since you rely on your team more.

 

 



Breandan #5 Posted 05 August 2018 - 06:45 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012
I take your point, SuedKAT, about why light tanks need to do less damage than heavies and TDs to reach a particular WN8. Each contributes something different towards winning matches. But in the end, shouldn't light tanks that have a high WN8 be contributing to wins? I mean isn't the point of WN8 to measure your effectiveness at winning matches / contributing to wins?

SuedKAT #6 Posted 05 August 2018 - 07:07 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,291
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014

View PostBreandan, on 05 August 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

I take your point, SuedKAT, about why light tanks need to do less damage than heavies and TDs to reach a particular WN8. Each contributes something different towards winning matches. But in the end, shouldn't light tanks that have a high WN8 be contributing to wins? I mean isn't the point of WN8 to measure your effectiveness at winning matches / contributing to wins?

 

Nah not really, I'll quote the wiki:

View PostWiki, said:

WN8 seeks to measure the observable contribution to matches, across an account, and hopefully infers some information about the latent variable "skill". WN8 should not be considered the be-all-end-all of skill evaluation. It is intended to be looked at next to win-rate, battle count, average tier, and will never replace the inspection of the Service Record or platooning with someone or watching their replays. This is because WN8 cannot capture things like timing, target priority, teamwork or decision making abilities.

http://wiki.wnefficiency.net/pages/WN8

 

In other words WN8 exists to measure your overall performance in the tanks you play, WR is there to just measure if you win or not. High WN8 often (if not always) leads to high WR, but that's looking at the account as a whole more than anything and sure a great LT driver can at times make even a bad team win, however compared to the other classes they are more team dependent. Not to mention that if things go bad and your team melts you can play the vision game in an LT and farm damage - WN8, but you might not necessarily be able to win the match. 



Breandan #7 Posted 05 August 2018 - 07:57 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012
I get you, SuedKAT. WN8 exists to measure your observable contribution. But different observable parameters have different weights, according to how well they correlate with win rate. WN8 is trying to account for what contributes to wins. Some of this, as we know, is not currently measurable (damage others do because of your spotting, tracking, stunning and so on, as well as other ineffable contributions); but for TDs, I would have thought that it is mostly damage that they contribute to a battle. So I wonder why their lead in winning battles isn't reflected in their WN8.

24doom24 #8 Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:22 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 7033 battles
  • 36
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012
I'm surprised the AT-8 is on there. Mine is sitting at an abysmal 41% win-rate.
 

View PostBreandan, on 05 August 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

I get you, SuedKAT. WN8 exists to measure your observable contribution. But different observable parameters have different weights, according to how well they correlate with win rate. WN8 is trying to account for what contributes to wins. Some of this, as we know, is not currently measurable (damage others do because of your spotting, tracking, stunning and so on, as well as other ineffable contributions); but for TDs, I would have thought that it is mostly damage that they contribute to a battle. So I wonder why their lead in winning battles isn't reflected in their WN8.

 

WN8 gets weird at lower tiers. I once played an 11000 WN8 game in my BT7 art.
 

Edited by NickMustaine, 06 August 2018 - 02:52 PM.


arthurwellsley #9 Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:26 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 51268 battles
  • 2,814
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

View PostBreandan, on 05 August 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

I took at look at win-rate for each tier in tanks.gg. Here is a list of the top tanks per tier by win-rate, excluding tanks that don't currently appear on the in-game tech tree (so for instance Type 64 is there, but Cromwell B isn't). N.B. Very often these are not the top tanks listed by tanks.gg, but they are the top tanks that you can buy with credits or gold today.

 

Tier 1: Kolohousenka - Czech Light. (though nearly all Tier 1s on tanks.gg have only a small data set)

Tier 2: M2 - British Light

Tier 3: T-127 - Russian Light Premium

Tier 4: Luchs - German Light

Tier 5: Archer - British TD (not the T67!)

Tier 6: AT 8 - British TD (not the Type 64!)

Tier 7: AT 15A - British TD Premium

Tier 8: T28 - American TD

Tier 9: T95 - American TD

Tier X: Object 268 version 4 - Russian TD

 

Well, that's what tanks.gg had, excluding "special" tanks that aren't in today's tech tree. What surprised me was the preponderance of TDs. Forget mediums and heavies, it seems.

 

Not entirely sure how tanks.gg gains their data, but the win rate top tanks does not match vbaddict win rate data.

24doom24 #10 Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:28 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 7033 battles
  • 36
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012

View Postarthurwellsley, on 05 August 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

 

Not entirely sure how tanks.gg gains their data, but the win rate top tanks does not match vbaddict win rate data.

 

Maybe they exclude tanks with small data sets?

Edited by 24doom24, 05 August 2018 - 08:29 PM.


SuedKAT #11 Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:40 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,291
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014

Take me as an example, these are my stats on my "grind recruit tonk" account which ended up becoming my new main: 

 

Then if we take this chart into consideration:

 

My recent WR is between great and unicum but my WN8 hover between very good and great, so I'm doing something which wins me matches but no necessarily grant me the WN8 to go with it. Damage play a large part in winning a match true, but positioning does as well, just being in the right position and not letting your enemies get it can do a lot not to mention scouting or being the one that blocks/take damage and so on. As an example I sat hulldown in my T26E5 trading shoots with an hulldown Super Conq yesterday, I had no way of getting out of there, he had, a few other tanks shoot at me that match, but he kept at it the entire match, in the end I had blocked 18k damage and done 380, in terms of WN8 that match was garbage, but I occupied one out of three top tier tanks an entire match which greatly increased my chances of winning, not to mention the position I had mad it impossible for the enemies to get to one of the best positions on that map if they wasn't prepared to get shoot by me first.

 

Now take the TD's you listed:

Tier 5: Archer - British TD

Tier 6: AT 8 - British TD

Tier 7: AT 15A - British TD Premium

Tier 8: T28 - American TD

Tier 9: T95 - American TD

Tier X: Object 268 version 4 - Russian TD

 

Except for the Archer all of them are reasonably well armored so they can lock down flanks and/or positions quite well, most don't want to risk getting shoot getting into position after all. Position an T95 in the HT "valley" in Karelia (with support) and you have something there that many either can't or want to contest, so that flank ends up in a stalemate or with advantages in terms of positions for the T95's team, but it's to slow to chase after damage that don't come to it, so the T95 might win, but it won't do much more than be in the right place at the right time, an LT on the other hand can adapt to the situation and chase damage and scout on the other flanks if needed. One have the mobility to chase damage - WN8, one have the stopping power to limit the positions enemies can utilize - WR.


Edited by SuedKAT, 05 August 2018 - 10:36 PM.


GoHomeClub #12 Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:49 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 43810 battles
  • 214
  • Member since:
    12-18-2012
Can't believe that list to be honest. I understand that you need less skill the more armor you have, but not having a turret and being slow as well is such a massive deal breaker. The AT models and the american tds just dont make sense from my point of view. The second list just shows, that a lot of players are hopeless with lights, which is no surprise.

SevernaSnaga #13 Posted 05 August 2018 - 10:22 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 1740 battles
  • 38
  • [BZVZ] BZVZ
  • Member since:
    01-30-2018

View PostBreandan, on 05 August 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

I did the same for WN8 rating for each tier in tanks.gg. Here is a list of the top tanks per tier by WN8 efficiency, excluding tanks that don't currently appear on the in-game tech tree

 

Tier 1: Fiat 3000 - Italian Light

Tier 2: M2 - British Light

Tier 3:  Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t) - German light

Tier 4: Valentine II - Russian Light Premium

Tier 5: Bishop - British SPG (my biggest surprise of the day).

Tier 6: Type 64 - Chinese Light Premium

Tier 7: T71 DA - American Light

Tier 8: SU14-2 - Russian SPG (after 8 better vehicles not in the tech tree).

Tier 9: AMX 13 90 - French Light

Tier X: 113 - Chinese Heavy

 

No TDs at all. Mostly lights. What is going on?

I played 13 battles with Pz 38 (t), 

I have 70% victories and my wn8 is 3200k, i did have 6 sence, but because first tank you choose after tutorial will have it



Breandan #14 Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:02 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012

SevernaSnaga wrote "I have 70% victories and my wn8 is 3200k, i did have 6 sence, but because first tank you choose after tutorial will have it"

 

Wow! I never knew that sixth sense was handed out so easily nowadays. I assume that's a recent thing.

 

GoHomeClub wrote "Can't believe that list to be honest".

Well, I didn't invent it. It's possible that the contributors were not representative of WoT players. Also, SuedKAT makes an interesting argument as to why these particular TDs might be so good at winning, by being able to help stall and tie down an enemy push on a weak flank in an imbalanced deployment, while more mobile tanks are winning a more favourable sector of the battlefield.



@Arthur Wellesley. My apologies. I wrote tanks.gg in my original post when I should have written vbaddict.net. Edited and fixed now. Don't forget that vehicles that aren't shown on the current in-game tech tree are excluded from my lists.
 

24doom24 wrote "WN8 gets weird at lower tiers. I once played an 11000 WN8 game in my BT7 art."

I know, and especially if you only look at an individual game. I ignore my WN8 until I've played 100 games in a tank.

 

You also mentioned "I'm surprised the AT-8 is on there. Mine is sitting at an abysmal 41% win-rate."

I know what you mean. As a damage dealer the AT-8 is not fantastic. But I think there is a nugget of gold in SuedKAT's insight that the TDs in the first list mostly have great armour. And that's what I've noticed on the AT 8. It is a shell magnet because of its slow speed, but it's armour bounces a lot of incoming fire. As long as you stay arty safe in it, and have support to prevent the risk of being rushed, it is great at soaking / bouncing damage that teammates don't have to take, giving your team a HP advantage. Same with the AT 15A at tier 7 (and I should mention that in second place in tier 7 is its non-premium sibling, the AT 7)

 

That also makes me wonder why heavies aren't on that list. They're doing that damage soaking job, too.


 

Edited by NickMustaine, 06 August 2018 - 02:53 PM.


Robbie_T #15 Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:20 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15087 battles
  • 242
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    07-08-2016

Tier 1: dont play

Tier 2: dont play

Tier 3: t29 Russian prem med tank

Tier 4: Luchs german light

Tier 5: -

Tier 6:Kv2R and Thunderbolt

Tier 7: T62 and AT15A

Tier 8: my new polish premium heavy

Tier 9: Jagdtiger

Tier X: Type 5 heavy



arthurwellsley #16 Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:08 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 51268 battles
  • 2,814
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

View PostBreandan, on 06 August 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

@Arthur Wellesley. My apologies. I wrote tanks.gg in my original post when I should have written vbaddict.net. Edited and fixed now. Don't forget that vehicles that aren't shown on the current in-game tech tree are excluded from my lists.

 

I went to vbaddict and entered tier VIII win rate, all servers and it returned the following top ten below. As you can see from the chart the T28 comes in at sixth place. Did you put any other modifiers in your search criteria when looking at win rate?

 



Breandan #17 Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:55 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012

Arthur Wellsley asked "Did you put any other modifiers in your search criteria when looking at win rate?"

 

No, Arthur, that is the list that I used from vbaddict. I then manually excluded those vehicles that are not available in the in-game tech tree currently. The T28 is the first one on that list that you can actually buy for gold or credits in-game. As this is a manual step, it is possible that I made a mistake, of course.

 

My idea behind this was only to list tanks that are readily available. For instance, the ELC EVEN 90 is not available at the moment. Vehicles that are on sale only in the premium shop often have limited availability windows, so I wanted to exclude those. Other vehicles in the vbaddict list are prize vehicles or test vehicles that are not generally available. So I decided to only list those vehicles that are in the tech tree.


Edited by Breandan, 06 August 2018 - 11:20 AM.


SevernaSnaga #18 Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:07 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 1740 battles
  • 38
  • [BZVZ] BZVZ
  • Member since:
    01-30-2018

View PostBreandan, on 06 August 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

SevernaSnaga wrote "I have 70% victories and my wn8 is 3200k, i did have 6 sence, but because first tank you choose after tutorial will have it"

 

Wow! I never knew that sixth sense was handed out so easily nowadays. I assume that's a recent thing.

Its a good thing, because players can learn about crew skill sooner.

I think that you can choose any perk, but i went for SS



SuedKAT #19 Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:44 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,291
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014

View PostBreandan, on 06 August 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

That also makes me wonder why heavies aren't on that list. They're doing that damage soaking job, too.

 

If I'm not mistaken I think that most if not all tanks that have workable armor got a better than average win rate in them (it's different if you look at a specific WR and see how the tanks perform for players at that WR), the main thing that might pull it down is if it's in a very popular line like the KV-1 for example. Having armor saves even the worst player at times, but it's also down to being able to utilize that armor something I think HT players on average are worse at than the average TD player and that comes down to meta/play style more than the tanks themselves. How many times have you not seen HT tanks blindly going to the "HT flank" regardless of situation, not to mention the yelling that often starts if the player don't do that can be quite immense. TD players on the other hand are more prone to play the second line, utilize bushes and so on and then that armor "saves" you a lot more. I'd say it's more common for a HT driver to "throw away" their tank than it is for TD players, so my guess to why the well armored TD's are on the list and the HT's aren't is down to how players play them.



Breandan #20 Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:42 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 27804 battles
  • 24
  • [RDDTR] RDDTR
  • Member since:
    02-02-2012
That makes sense, SuedKAT, thanks for that. Heavies do tend to get into a lot of action! I suppose not having a turret definitely makes a TD much more careful than a HT about being outflanked.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users