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53TP the new IS-3 for team battles/strongholds?


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Bennie182 #1 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:01 PM

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I just played the new Polish tier 8 heavy, the 53TP, on the test server. I also compared the stats in-game with the IS3. It has better dpm, accuracy, damage per shot, gun depression, mobility and (clear advantage) better view range of 20m. Only the armor is a bit less on paper, but I haven't seen a 3D picture of it on Tanks.gg because it's not available yet.

 

What do you guys think?



SuedKAT #2 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:18 PM

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Well it's available, but the model is kinda all screwed: https://tanks.gg/v10...tank/53tp/model

 

Can see it and the 50TP Prot. being used in TB's and Strongholds as a compliment to Defenders, but I doubt it will replace IS-3's since those have already been replaced I guess.



Andrasan89 #3 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:22 PM

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armor is way worse on both hull and turret...so its really balanced how it is now

 

its not a replacement for any tank...its just another choice and thats VERY GOOD.

*anyway mobility is not that good compared to is3...it only have 2km/h more and P/W is worse...but still can hit its top speed.



Bennie182 #4 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:32 PM

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View PostAndrasan89, on 07 August 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

armor is way worse on both hull and turret...so its really balanced how it is now

 

its not a replacement for any tank...its just another choice and thats VERY GOOD.

*anyway mobility is not that good compared to is3...it only have 2km/h more and P/W is worse...but still can hit its top speed.

I just checked the image that SuedKAT showed. There I see clearly the downside on the armor, indeed, if the image is correct.

It's traverse speed is much better though and the hp/ton is about the same. It felt pretty mobile, especially because of the -8 gun depression that makes it so much easier on ridges.



Andrasan89 #5 Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:46 AM

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View PostBennie182, on 07 August 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's traverse speed is much better though and the hp/ton is about the same. It felt pretty mobile, especially because of the -8 gun depression that makes it so much easier on ridges.

 

and all this added to poor armor means just balanced !

its more agile but not really much faster !..theres a difference

gun is better but armor worse

 

so...we have advantages and disadvantages....BALANCE in one word !


Edited by Andrasan89, 08 August 2018 - 01:46 AM.


NoobySkooby #6 Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:54 AM

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Balance meaning crap, if anything the armour needs a buff, and why not, it was nerfed before we got our grubby hands on it, drivers hatch thing, and sides way too weak, by the time you have found a hull down position, your dead.

 

As for TB's, I would never ever take this over my IS3, at least with that you can bounce shots, not a hope in hell with the 50TP



Bennie182 #7 Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:00 AM

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View PostAndrasan89, on 08 August 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

 

and all this added to poor armor means just balanced !

its more agile but not really much faster !..theres a difference

gun is better but armor worse

 

so...we have advantages and disadvantages....BALANCE in one word !

armor has no value anymore in this game. either you get spammed by premium ammo or when you sidescrape by HESH.

LordMuffin #8 Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:29 AM

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View PostBennie182, on 07 August 2018 - 10:01 PM, said:

I just played the new Polish tier 8 heavy, the 53TP, on the test server. I also compared the stats in-game with the IS3. It has better dpm, accuracy, damage per shot, gun depression, mobility and (clear advantage) better view range of 20m. Only the armor is a bit less on paper, but I haven't seen a 3D picture of it on Tanks.gg because it's not available yet.

 

What do you guys think?

IS-3 have already been replaced by Defender for tryhards.



LordMuffin #9 Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:31 AM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 08 August 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:

Balance meaning crap, if anything the armour needs a buff, and why not, it was nerfed before we got our grubby hands on it, drivers hatch thing, and sides way too weak, by the time you have found a hull down position, your dead.

 

As for TB's, I would never ever take this over my IS3, at least with that you can bounce shots, not a hope in hell with the 50TP

So you are arguing that this polish tank should just be a superior IS-3 (powercreep is the common term)? Since that would be the result of your buff idea, buffed armour. 



LordMuffin #10 Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:34 AM

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View PostBennie182, on 08 August 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

armor has no value anymore in this game. either you get spammed by premium ammo or when you sidescrape by HESH.

If armour had no value in this game, one would think that low-/unarmoured would be in top of WR lists,  op whined threads etc.

 

To bad that isn't the case.

the tanks that rule random battles, WR lists, are overperforming the most for all players etc are the armoured and heavily armoured tanks.

Which suggest that armour plays a huge role and is very important in this game.



Schepel #11 Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:52 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 08 August 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

If armour had no value in this game, one would think that low-/unarmoured would be in top of WR lists,  op whined threads etc.

 

To bad that isn't the case.

the tanks that rule random battles, WR lists, are overperforming the most for all players etc are the armoured and heavily armoured tanks.

Which suggest that armour plays a huge role and is very important in this game.

 

This.

 

One of the reasons the IS-3 is the workhorse of competitive play is that it gets to hit reliably on the move - something you can't do with a defender. A lot will depend on the soft stats of these Polish tanks whether or not they will see use, but even if they are a viable alternative, you don't replace a tank with 4-5 crew skills for one with, at best, 2 crew skills. So I don't see the IS-3 relegated to second best anytime soon.

Bennie182 #12 Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:02 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 08 August 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

If armour had no value in this game, one would think that low-/unarmoured would be in top of WR lists,  op whined threads etc.

 

To bad that isn't the case.

the tanks that rule random battles, WR lists, are overperforming the most for all players etc are the armoured and heavily armoured tanks.

Which suggest that armour plays a huge role and is very important in this game.

A lot of unicums for example, play mostly mediums, because what they care most about is mobility, not armor. They want to be able to retreat on time to survive longer and also be able to defend the base when needed. the "armor" you speak of are the most OP tanks, like Type 5, 268 v4 etc. Only when looking at turret armor some tanks do have armor value, but only when they are in the right situation, which is hull down.

 

"If armour had no value in this game, one would think that low-/unarmoured would be in top of WR lists" this makes no sense at all, because one must be able to use the advantages that lightly armored tanks have over well-armored tanks. If you're not able to do so, your advantage still has no value.

 

View PostSchepel, on 08 August 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

This.

One of the reasons the IS-3 is the workhorse of competitive play is that it gets to hit reliably on the move - something you can't do with a defender. A lot will depend on the soft stats of these Polish tanks whether or not they will see use, but even if they are a viable alternative, you don't replace a tank with 4-5 crew skills for one with, at best, 2 crew skills. So I don't see the IS-3 relegated to second best anytime soon.

A lot of people might have only 2 skills by that time, but enough players who bought the Polish premium heavy are able to get a lot better crew before reaching the 53TP, so that argument is questionable.



LordMuffin #13 Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:11 AM

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View PostBennie182, on 08 August 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

A lot of unicums for example, play mostly mediums, because what they care most about is mobility, not armor. They want to be able to retreat on time to survive longer and also be able to defend the base when needed. the "armor" you speak of are the most OP tanks, like Type 5, 268 v4 etc. Only when looking at turret armor some tanks do have armor value, but only when they are in the right situation, which is hull down.

 

"If armour had no value in this game, one would think that low-/unarmoured would be in top of WR lists" this makes no sense at all, because one must be able to use the advantages that lightly armored tanks have over well-armored tanks. If you're not able to do so, your advantage still has no value.

 

A lot of people might have only 2 skills by that time, but enough players who bought the Polish premium heavy are able to get a lot better crew before reaching the 53TP, so that argument is questionable.

Unicums do perform better in armoured tanks like Super Conq then lightly armoured tanks like Obj 140/Nato mediums etc.

 

Also, look at what tanks are primarily played in ranked at higher ranks.

Super conq/Obj 268 v4/Type 5 or other heavily armoured tank.

 

Armoured tanks have never been better then they are now.

 

That armoured tanks are boring to play due to lack of speed is the main reason to why they are not the only played tanks.

Because believe it or not, even unicums play to have fun, and many don't find slow tanks fun.


Edited by LordMuffin, 08 August 2018 - 09:13 AM.


pihip #14 Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:14 AM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 08 August 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:

Balance meaning crap, if anything the armour needs a buff, and why not, it was nerfed before we got our grubby hands on it, drivers hatch thing, and sides way too weak, by the time you have found a hull down position, your dead.

 

As for TB's, I would never ever take this over my IS3, at least with that you can bounce shots, not a hope in hell with the 50TP

 

Balance is what this game desperately needs, crap is what we're getting instead (most of the time anyway).

 

Of the whole Polish line, the only tank that I see as problematic is the 60TP as it is a blend of the best features of IS-4 and E 100 rolled in a single package. Arguably those two have already been powercrept, but 60TP makes them obsolete for good.



KillingJoker #15 Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:55 AM

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I liked this tank on the test server...

 

agile, despite the average power to weight for a heavy, good turret armor and the -8 degrees of gun depression combined with that 420 alpha

makes it a really interesting tank to play at tier 8, the whole polish techtree seems interesting at the moment.

 



FluffyRedFox #16 Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:20 PM

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Did a review of it, amongst the other Polish tanks here, and I reached the same conclusion that it overtakes the IS-3 in the high alpha heavium niche. Only situation where I can see the IS-3 being better is when its top tier against prem ammo on  a map where you can't hulldown so a bit situational to say the least...

View Postpihip, on 08 August 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

Of the whole Polish line, the only tank that I see as problematic is the 60TP as it is a blend of the best features of IS-4 and E 100 rolled in a single package. Arguably those two have already been powercrept, but 60TP makes them obsolete for good.

Nah, the 60TP has far worse hull armour than those two. It'll be a better tank for the hulldown meta, sure, but flat out making them obsolete? I'd disagree.



pihip #17 Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 08 August 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

Nah, the 60TP has far worse hull armour than those two. It'll be a better tank for the hulldown meta, sure, but flat out making them obsolete? I'd disagree.

 

I'm glad if I'm wrong, I said before that I wish for all tanks in the game to stay relevant to an extent, at least in random battles.

Andrasan89 #18 Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:58 PM

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View PostBennie182, on 08 August 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

armor has no value anymore in this game. either you get spammed by premium ammo or when you sidescrape by HESH.

 

not 100% true because overbuffed idiotic tanks and without weakpoints still can show "usefull" armor, but in the most moronic, imbecile and broken p2w way.

And all this due only to gold ammo "balance".

 

but if we think with standard and f2p elements armor really have its good defined role and weakpoints are necessary. This tank have all of them, how all tanks should be, and due to this is balanced.

Turret have enough armor and nice angles to bounce i think, any gun with standard ammo what it can meet, and have a proper weak cupola wich means weakpoint. Very good for now.

Hull is a bit of a problem but thats in exchange for mobility.

Anyway theres a problem with that machinegun from hull...AGAIN is not modeled in 3d wich is just STUPID. Hull can become stronger but only if that machinegun is modeled as a WEAKPOINT !

 

Easy.


Edited by Andrasan89, 08 August 2018 - 01:58 PM.


NoobySkooby #19 Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:23 PM

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View Postpihip, on 08 August 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

 

Balance is what this game desperately needs, crap is what we're getting instead (most of the time anyway).

 

Of the whole Polish line, the only tank that I see as problematic is the 60TP as it is a blend of the best features of IS-4 and E 100 rolled in a single package. Arguably those two have already been powercrept, but 60TP makes them obsolete for good.

 

Ah worry not, I am sure a nerf will be impending.




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