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The USK will allow mustache and swastikas in Wolfenstein

USK mustache swastika games art

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pathed91 #181 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:32 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 12 August 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

One thing that I haven't been able to figure out, why transport people en masse just to get them killed? I think it's a known fact that transport capacity that was used would have been more useful for transport of troops and war supplies, for one thing. It makes little sense in logistical terms.

 

This is something I have thought about too, and was thinking for some time that it was a logistical issue that caused so many to starve to death. The thing is that the germans continued to keep the furnaces burning right up until the end of the war instead of just abandoning the death camps, so it seems clear to me they where so ideoligicly set to perform the genocide even when their "precious empire" was crumbling and burning around them. It takes some seriously screwed up person to do that.

Hedgehog1963 #182 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:34 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 12 August 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

One thing that I haven't been able to figure out, why transport people en masse just to get them killed? I think it's a known fact that transport capacity that was used would have been more useful for transport of troops and war supplies, for one thing. It makes little sense in logistical terms.

There's quite a few reasons.

 

There's the awkwardness of the digging of a mass grave and the shooting going on that would alert the locals to the crimes being committed.  Much easier to convince, say, the Vichy regime to round up Jews for you if you've told them they will be taken off to labour camps.  If people knew Jews were bring murdered in the fields nearby they might try to hide some to save them.  Some people figured it out and did hid them.

Shooting people in the back of the head for hours on end, day after day, had a negative effect on even the most ardent SS soldiers.  Himmler even noted this. The gas chambers enabled a lot of people to be killed at a time, hidden from sight. The victims' bodies would be cleared by slave labour which would one day also be gassed.  Fewer witnesses.

 

Part of the economy of this extermination would see the Jews stripped of their possessions.  Valuables.  Clothes.  False limbs.  Spectacles.  Gold teeth. Their hair was also shorn to be used; two tons of it were found by the liberating forces. Stockpiling at the central point of the death camp made it easier to utilise these resources


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 12 August 2018 - 02:38 PM.


Hedgehog1963 #183 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:37 PM

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View Postpathed91, on 12 August 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

You still used that as a way to score cheap points in the discussion.

 

We aren't getting anywhere in the debate about the holocaust, so I suggest we move back to the topic about the cosplay. Where whould you draw the line that someone would line up with the nazis just by cosplaying as a german soldier?

Take WoT for example, the Tiger might be a symbol of the fascist army that ravaged their country so would that make anyone playing the Tiger as bad as the cosplayers?

 

At the beggining of the thread someone made the point that it's different with nazi markings in multiplayer than singleplayer, because in singleplayer no one plays as the nazis. If you play a strategy game and play as the germans, would that count as being a wannabe nazi? 

 

Your "cheap point" is my showing how wrong he was, just as he was about so many other thing like the war being over in '44 and "tactical" bombing and Dresden not being a war production site.  What you are doing is a real cheap shot.

 

Cosplaying a nazi soldier, given what the nazi regime did, is questionable to me.  You may find it acceptable, that's up to you.  All the other comparisons you're making are nebulous BS.


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 12 August 2018 - 02:39 PM.


pathed91 #184 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:38 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 August 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

There's quite a few reasons.

 

There's the awkwardness of the digging of a mass grave and the shooting going on that would alert the locals to the crimes being committed.  Much easier to convince, say, the Vichy regime to round up Jews for you if you've told them they will be taken off to labour camps.  If people knew Jews were bring murdered in the fields nearby they might try to hide some to save them.  Some people figured it out and did hid them.

Shooting people in the back of the head for hours on end, day after day, had a negative effect on even the most ardent SS soldiers.  Himmler even noted this. The gas chambers enabled a lot of people to be killed at a time, hidden from sight. The victims bodies would be cleared by slave labour which would one day also be gassed.  Fewer witnesses.

 

Part of the economy of this extermination would see the Jews stripped of their possessions.  Valuables.  Clothes.  False limbs.  Spectacles.  Gold teeth. Their hair was also shorn to be used; two tons of it were found by the liberating forces. Stockpiling at the central point of the death camp made it easier to utilise these resources

 

Think I saw in a documentary a long time ago that Himmler got sick from visiting one of the death camps, and had to leave early. Just shows you that it's easy to talk about murdering innocent people when you do it in a conference room back in Berling and never see what your politics actually means in reality



pathed91 #185 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:40 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 August 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

 

Your "cheap point" is my showing how wrong he was, just as he was about so many other thing like the war being over in '44 and tactical bombing and Dresden not being a war production site.

 

Cosplaying a nazi soldier, given what the nazi regime did, is questionable to me.  You may find it acceptable, that's up to you.  All the other comparisons you're making are nebulous BS.

 

I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm honestly wondering where you draw the line and why. It's obvious that we think differently on the cosplay, I just wanted to know your reasoning behind it. 

duijm #186 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:45 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 August 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

Your "cheap point" is my showing how wrong he was, just as he was about so many other thing like the war being over in '44 and "tactical" bombing and Dresden not being a war production site.  What you are doing is a real cheap shot.

 

Cosplaying a nazi soldier, given what the nazi regime did, is questionable to me.  You may find it acceptable, that's up to you.  All the other comparisons you're making are nebulous BS.

 

I was not wrong.  Read up on your history please. You may know some facts  about the deathcamp etc but you lack knowledge about the rest of the war and the aftermath. But aparently you are still mokking about it. The fact nazi's were one of the worst regimes does not make senceless killing of German civilian at the end of the war and even after the war not warcrimes.  

 

Ps billion should be millions.  But from what country are you then? To afraid to share?


Edited by duijm, 12 August 2018 - 04:27 PM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #187 Posted 12 August 2018 - 02:59 PM

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View Postpathed91, on 12 August 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

This is something I have thought about too, and was thinking for some time that it was a logistical issue that caused so many to starve to death. The thing is that the germans continued to keep the furnaces burning right up until the end of the war instead of just abandoning the death camps, so it seems clear to me they where so ideoligicly set to perform the genocide even when their "precious empire" was crumbling and burning around them. It takes some seriously screwed up person to do that.

 

Those furnaces did not burn without fuel. How were the Nazis able to use so much precious fuel for what in terms of the war effort should have been a secondary purpose?

 

View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 August 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

There's quite a few reasons.

 

There's the awkwardness of the digging of a mass grave and the shooting going on that would alert the locals to the crimes being committed.  Much easier to convince, say, the Vichy regime to round up Jews for you if you've told them they will be taken off to labour camps.  If people knew Jews were bring murdered in the fields nearby they might try to hide some to save them.  Some people figured it out and did hid them.

Shooting people in the back of the head for hours on end, day after day, had a negative effect on even the most ardent SS soldiers.  Himmler even noted this. The gas chambers enabled a lot of people to be killed at a time, hidden from sight. The victims' bodies would be cleared by slave labour which would one day also be gassed.  Fewer witnesses.

 

Part of the economy of this extermination would see the Jews stripped of their possessions.  Valuables.  Clothes.  False limbs.  Spectacles.  Gold teeth. Their hair was also shorn to be used; two tons of it were found by the liberating forces. Stockpiling at the central point of the death camp made it easier to utilise these resources

 

Still, in some sense it would be easier to hide the deaths if they are spread over a larger area and over time. In the early part of the war they killed people in the woods, on the beaches etc. and the corpses were buried on site, much like what was the Soviet practice in fact....

 

In a sense, I suppose, it also depends on how much they emphasized the economic benefits of slave labor over logistical costs. What they could loot from the corpses is probably considerably less than what they had confiscated as property, valuables and businesses years earlier.

 

View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 August 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

Your "cheap point" is my showing how wrong he was, just as he was about so many other thing like the war being over in '44 and "tactical" bombing and Dresden not being a war production site.  What you are doing is a real cheap shot.

 

Cosplaying a nazi soldier, given what the nazi regime did, is questionable to me.  You may find it acceptable, that's up to you.  All the other comparisons you're making are nebulous BS.

 

Cosplaying a Nazi soldier perhaps, but I don't see any such problems if depicting combat troops and units which saw frontline service and have untarnished war time records.

 

View Postduijm, on 12 August 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

I was not wrong.  Read up on your history please. You may know some facts  about the deathcamp etc but you lack knowledge about the rest of the war and the aftermath. But aparently you are still mokking about it. The fact nazi's were one of the worst regimes does not make senceless killing of German civilian at the end of the war and even after the war not warcrimes.  

 

I think you are very much right when it comes to Dresden.

 

Read for reference:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11410633/Dresden-was-a-civilian-town-with-no-military-significance.-Why-did-we-burn-its-people.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/15/bombing-dresden-war-crime

 

Block Quote

Once inside, they found no survivors or corpses: just a green-brown liquid with bones sticking out of it....

 

The debate over this strategy of targeting civilians is still hotly contentious and emotional, in Britain and abroad. There is no doubting the bravery, sacrifice, and suffering of the young men who flew the extraordinarily dangerous missions: 55,573 out of Bomber Command’s 125,000 flyers never came home. The airmen even nicknamed their Commander-in-Chief “Butcher” Harris, highlighting his scant regard for their survival.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11410633/Dresden-was-a-civilian-town-with-no-military-significance.-Why-did-we-burn-its-people.html

 

 


Edited by Browarszky, 12 August 2018 - 03:00 PM.


pathed91 #188 Posted 12 August 2018 - 03:04 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 12 August 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

 

Those furnaces did not burn without fuel. How were the Nazis able to use so much precious fuel for what in terms of the war effort should have been a secondary purpose?

 

 

 

That was my point, they were so focused on continuing their genocide that the war effort were damaged by it. When the sensible thing would have been to focus troops and resources on the actual war they instead chose to murder innocent civilians by the millions. 



duijm #189 Posted 12 August 2018 - 03:52 PM

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View Postpathed91, on 12 August 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

That was my point, they were so focused on continuing their genocide that the war effort were damaged by it. When the sensible thing would have been to focus troops and resources on the actual war they instead chose to murder innocent civilians by the millions. 

 

They started foccusing even more on killing when they started loosing the war.  The Nazi's wanted to kill a many as they could before the war was over.  And logic was not nr 1 on their list of priorities.

Edited by duijm, 12 August 2018 - 03:53 PM.


Nohe21 #190 Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:32 PM

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*Closing this thread as it has derailed completely into politic discussions. We wanted to let you discuss the point from which the OP created the Thread, but that doesn´t mean we are giving Carte Blanche to discuss politics and events that in some cases are not even related with what was originally discussed here.

 

Have a nice day.







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