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MM - Matched my Pudel against an O-I


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VulcanX #1 Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:28 PM

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As per the title, my Pudel was matched against an O-I in the list as top tier. Which, as it was Ruinberg, meant that the teams tier 5 heavies didn't stand a chance.

 

Can someone at WG explain the logic behind the matchmaker doing this?

 

It's okay if you can't, I really don't have high expectations of WG. Just try to drool out of the left side of your mouths for a "Yes, it's working as intended" or the right side for a "Go away, we're still trying to write a novel with these 1000 type writers, which were kindly donated by the World Wildlife Fund".



Balc0ra #2 Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:27 AM

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Top tiers can differ in terms of class if MM allows it or needs it. As when tier population and class selection differs to get an even match. As just because you got into the game fast, don't mean the others had to wait for long to get that game. And at this hour of the day, it will happen lots on mid-tier. Even more so on EU2 as more of the population is on tier 9/X vs on mid-tier. Thus tier 6 games won't be perfectly matched always. And MM only matches clip guns if they are top tier to make it balanced, and then classes on top tier if possible. Not class type vs class type. As in not super heavy vs super heavy etc.

 

And in the list? List is sorted by player name, class and tier. Not MM weight if you will. 



Derethim #3 Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:49 AM

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You know, it is working as intended.

What should it match you against? A firefly? A P43 bis? Should it let you choose or something?

It's the SAME. TIER.

 

You're supposed to outsmart him, which means; load gold and shoot his weakspots while he's reloading.



FizzleMcSnizzle #4 Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:20 AM

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The way the player population is shrinking, it might become an increasingly common event. Happened to me earlier. I was top tier in a KV2; they had some medium (I forget which). City map. We won easily.

LordMuffin #5 Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:52 AM

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View PostVulcanX, on 09 August 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

As per the title, my Pudel was matched against an O-I in the list as top tier. Which, as it was Ruinberg, meant that the teams tier 5 heavies didn't stand a chance.

 

Can someone at WG explain the logic behind the matchmaker doing this?

 

It's okay if you can't, I really don't have high expectations of WG. Just try to drool out of the left side of your mouths for a "Yes, it's working as intended" or the right side for a "Go away, we're still trying to write a novel with these 1000 type writers, which were kindly donated by the World Wildlife Fund".

This is another reason why the 3-5-7 is bad imo.

 

Go back to the old one!!

 

View PostDerethim, on 10 August 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

You know, it is working as intended.

What should it match you against? A firefly? A P43 bis? Should it let you choose or something?

It's the SAME. TIER.

 

You're supposed to outsmart him, which means; load gold and shoot his weakspots while he's reloading.

O-I don't have frontal weakspots.

He have cover on that map aswell so he can peek, shoot, reverse. And you can get 1 shot in at him.

If you want to shoot him during his reload you will first have to kill the other 5 or something tanks he have close by.

 

The best tactic in this case is to go field and tru to win that area faster then the O-I wrecks town. And then snipe O-I from range when he tries to cap or come back to defend.


 

VulcanX #6 Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:20 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 10 August 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

You know, it is working as intended.

What should it match you against? A firefly? A P43 bis? Should it let you choose or something?

It's the SAME. TIER.

 

You're supposed to outsmart him, which means; load gold and shoot his weakspots while he's reloading.

 

Yes, I do expect to be matched against another tier 6 medium. If there are three tier 6 tanks on each side, with a med, light and arty on my side, then they should be matched on the other side. Adding a Heavy in to the mix makes the teams unbalanced. The rest of the team are hoping that the top tier tanks will be able to counter each other, so they can have a slight chance of influencing the game. The selection of four tier 5 heavies were praying that I could do more than get in a couple of flanking shots, before the O-I gets in to a nice safe comfortable position and wrecks them. Freeing up a few extra guns on their team, to point at me.

 

I mentioned the tanks and the map, to highlight how much of an impossible position it was. It doesn't matter how crafty you are, a Pudel can't shoot it's way through four tier 5 heavies with the same ease that an O-I can, especially on that map.

 

I don't mind being outplayed by a better or more prepared opponent, but I expect a game to be fair and I complain when it isn't. If fairness isn't suppose to be part of the game, then why do they ban aimbots and some mods?

 

View PostLordMuffin, on 10 August 2018 - 04:55 AM, said:

O-I don't have frontal weakspots.

He have cover on that map aswell so he can peek, shoot, reverse. And you can get 1 shot in at him.

If you want to shoot him during his reload you will first have to kill the other 5 or something tanks he have close by.

 

The best tactic in this case is to go field and tru to win that area faster then the O-I wrecks town. And then snipe O-I from range when he tries to cap or come back to defend.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. Pudel has to be lucky every time, O-I only has to be lucky once.

 

I took the mid crossroads, as there were five heavies on their side and I knew I could snipe down on the road and prevent them from pushing through too quickly, while giving the option to spot and snipe the field if necessary. Had some success but the O-I was happy just to roll across the road, take a couple in the side and then get in to cover.

 

Perhaps committing to the field would have been a better option though.



Warzey #7 Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:07 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 10 August 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

This is another reason why the 3-5-7 is bad imo.

 

Go back to the old one!!

 

Right, MM is the main culprit here, but players with rigid play style are totally fine. This whole notion that MM and maps should cater to the way players want to play their tanks and not the other way around is also apparently fine.

I can't believe that we still can't get over the fact that MM is never ever ever ever going to be fair, unless we get perfectly mirrored tanks in both teams, mirrored map and of course roughly equal skill on both teams. 



LordMuffin #8 Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:38 PM

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View PostWarzey, on 10 August 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

 

Right, MM is the main culprit here, but players with rigid play style are totally fine. This whole notion that MM and maps should cater to the way players want to play their tanks and not the other way around is also apparently fine.

I can't believe that we still can't get over the fact that MM is never ever ever ever going to be fair, unless we get perfectly mirrored tanks in both teams, mirrored map and of course roughly equal skill on both teams. 

New MM claim to balance heavies etc again st each other.  Which is clearly do not.

 

Now, an issue with this new MM is that you only have 3 top tiered tanks. This means, the games are much easier tilted in one way or the other due to tank differences between the top tiers and because of skill difference between the top tiers.

 

If we instead had 5 top tiers for instance, the chance of getting heavily mismatched top tiered tanks get reduced alot, just like the chance of having heavily mismatched top tiers skill wise gets reduced alot.

 

Both cases leave more room for mid/bot tier to have an impact on the outcome.



Warzey #9 Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:30 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 10 August 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

New MM claim to balance heavies etc again st each other.  Which is clearly do not.

 

Now, an issue with this new MM is that you only have 3 top tiered tanks. This means, the games are much easier tilted in one way or the other due to tank differences between the top tiers and because of skill difference between the top tiers.

 

If we instead had 5 top tiers for instance, the chance of getting heavily mismatched top tiered tanks get reduced alot, just like the chance of having heavily mismatched top tiers skill wise gets reduced alot.

 

Both cases leave more room for mid/bot tier to have an impact on the outcome.

 

Oh no no no, MM will TRY to balance out tanks fighting against each other. 

Yes, brilliant idea, increasing the amount of top tier tanks will totally increase the impact of bottom tier tanks. Let me remind you, the template MM was introduced in the first place because people were crying about bottom tier tanks having no impact. 

Everyone seems to forget that in a 3-5-7 MM it's a 15 vs 15 battle, not a 3 vs 3 battle, top tier tanks can't win on their own regardless of the tier. The skill thing works both ways, I refuse to believe that in most of the battles shitty top tiers end up in one team and normal ones in the other team. Even in those cases where shitty players do end up in top tier, rest of their team plays as if those guys are playing normally, so a bunch of mistakes lead to a defeat. I mean if players can't be bothered to work together and support each other then they deserve to lose, MM itself doesn't really play a big part there. 



Andrasan89 #10 Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:39 PM

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View PostVulcanX, on 09 August 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

As per the title, my Pudel was matched against an O-I in the list as top tier. Which, as it was Ruinberg, meant that the teams tier 5 heavies didn't stand a chance.

 

Can someone at WG explain the logic behind the matchmaker doing this?

 

It's okay if you can't, I really don't have high expectations of WG. Just try to drool out of the left side of your mouths for a "Yes, it's working as intended" or the right side for a "Go away, we're still trying to write a novel with these 1000 type writers, which were kindly donated by the World Wildlife Fund".

 

wat???

you dont like challenges ??? :trollface:



LordMuffin #11 Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:42 PM

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View PostWarzey, on 10 August 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

Oh no no no, MM will TRY to balance out tanks fighting against each other. 

Yes, brilliant idea, increasing the amount of top tier tanks will totally increase the impact of bottom tier tanks. Let me remind you, the template MM was introduced in the first place because people were crying about bottom tier tanks having no impact. 

Everyone seems to forget that in a 3-5-7 MM it's a 15 vs 15 battle, not a 3 vs 3 battle, top tier tanks can't win on their own regardless of the tier. The skill thing works both ways, I refuse to believe that in most of the battles shitty top tiers end up in one team and normal ones in the other team. Even in those cases where shitty players do end up in top tier, rest of their team plays as if those guys are playing normally, so a bunch of mistakes lead to a defeat. I mean if players can't be bothered to work together and support each other then they deserve to lose, MM itself doesn't really play a big part there. 

Time for some simplified maths.

 

With 3 top tiers, you have a 1 in 4 to get unbalanced top tiers (you get either the 3 best or 3 worst).

With 5 top tiers, you have 1 in 8 to get 4 or 5 of the 5 worst/best players.

 

Thus, having 5 top tiers reduce the skill difference among the top tiers on average. Meaning that this skill difference won't be as influential on average due to it being lower.

 

For bottom tiers, due to the larger amount of players, the skill difference and tank power difference is less. Also, since you are bottom tiered, a difference in this area is of lower impact then a difference in top tiered tanks.

 

The top tiered tanks in current MM is way more influential then in earlier MM, and this is a bad thing imo.



malachi6 #12 Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:56 PM

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View PostVulcanX, on 09 August 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

As per the title, my Pudel was matched against an O-I in the list as top tier. Which, as it was Ruinberg, meant that the teams tier 5 heavies didn't stand a chance.

 

Can someone at WG explain the logic behind the matchmaker doing this?

 

It's okay if you can't, I really don't have high expectations of WG. Just try to drool out of the left side of your mouths for a "Yes, it's working as intended" or the right side for a "Go away, we're still trying to write a novel with these 1000 type writers, which were kindly donated by the World Wildlife Fund".

 

I love posts that pre-insult any attempt at a  contrary answer.  Shows the OP is not creating a discussion.  Rather throwing a bit of a wobbler.

 

Top marks for open-mindedness OP.



Warzey #13 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:37 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 10 August 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Time for some simplified maths.

 

With 3 top tiers, you have a 1 in 4 to get unbalanced top tiers (you get either the 3 best or 3 worst).

With 5 top tiers, you have 1 in 8 to get 4 or 5 of the 5 worst/best players.

 

Thus, having 5 top tiers reduce the skill difference among the top tiers on average. Meaning that this skill difference won't be as influential on average due to it being lower.

 

For bottom tiers, due to the larger amount of players, the skill difference and tank power difference is less. Also, since you are bottom tiered, a difference in this area is of lower impact then a difference in top tiered tanks.

 

The top tiered tanks in current MM is way more influential then in earlier MM, and this is a bad thing imo.

 

You are absolutely right, with more top tier tanks there's a lot less chance of best/worst players being in the same team.

The top tier influence in current MM versus old MM is true and false at the same time. On one hand in current MM performance of a single tank carries more weight, but on the other hand since top tier tanks are so few in numbers, they're a lot easier to deal with. When it comes to old MM, single tank performance wasn't as important, but if you ended up in 5-6-4 MM those 5 tanks were really tough to kill especially if they somewhat stuck together and that is the part players didn't like. 

 

I would say that possible skill disbalance among top tiers is the lesser of two evils and on top of that it can be compensated for if players act accordingly (they usually don't). 



HaZardeur #14 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:09 PM

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OP missed the chance for "memorable gameplay" :(

I_DiD_ #15 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:27 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 10 August 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Time for some simplified maths.

 

With 3 top tiers, you have a 1 in 4 to get unbalanced top tiers (you get either the 3 best or 3 worst).

With 5 top tiers, you have 1 in 8 to get 4 or 5 of the 5 worst/best players.

 

Thus, having 5 top tiers reduce the skill difference among the top tiers on average. Meaning that this skill difference won't be as influential on average due to it being lower.

 

For bottom tiers, due to the larger amount of players, the skill difference and tank power difference is less. Also, since you are bottom tiered, a difference in this area is of lower impact then a difference in top tiered tanks.

 

The top tiered tanks in current MM is way more influential then in earlier MM, and this is a bad thing imo.

 

Why are you talking with warzey? You don't see that every post he made on this forum, is thoung behind WG(You know what i mean)

 

This MM bringed nothing else then even more one sided matches. If you have 3 bot skill players driving TX tank in 3/5/7 system you are going to lose 99% very fast and nearly no enemy tanks dead.

And this is what we are getting at the moment in random games. Just ended a match, 3-4k personal rating in T10 tank, 2 of them did one shoot damage while other died with 0 damage.

Great huh, lost the game 0:15 with speed of light. Thats why i spend 7 years playing this game, that i won't be eble to play one normal RANDOM GAME?

 

And sry for my english need to work on that :)


Edited by I_DiD_, 10 August 2018 - 08:29 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #16 Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:13 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 10 August 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

You know, it is working as intended.

What should it match you against? A firefly? A P43 bis? Should it let you choose or something?

It's the SAME. TIER.

 

You're supposed to outsmart him, which means; load gold and shoot his weakspots while he's reloading.

 

err... I would consider the Pudel superior to the O-I, no need to outsmart it.

juonimies #17 Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:33 PM

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View PostVulcanX, on 09 August 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

As per the title, my Pudel was matched against an O-I in the list as top tier. Which, as it was Ruinberg, meant that the teams tier 5 heavies didn't stand a chance.

 

Can someone at WG explain the logic behind the matchmaker doing this?

 

It's okay if you can't, I really don't have high expectations of WG. Just try to drool out of the left side of your mouths for a "Yes, it's working as intended" or the right side for a "Go away, we're still trying to write a novel with these 1000 type writers, which were kindly donated by the World Wildlife Fund".

 

Welcome to World of Fraud. 

 

Now you have two alternatives:

 

1) Just try to get along with WG's russian logic 

 

or

 

2) Quit playing. 

 

For your quality of living, I strongly suggest alternative 2).  






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