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In recognition of a skillful tank commander that he was....


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iRONiVAN_theBattleBorn #1 Posted 10 August 2018 - 06:49 PM

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will you, WG, reinstate Michael Wittmann's medal now that Germany has lifted strict constitutional ban on Nazi symbols to allow them in video games?

 

As reported by RT today!

https://www.rt.com/n...ny-video-games/



Nethraniel #2 Posted 10 August 2018 - 06:53 PM

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View PostiRONiVAN_theBattleBorn, on 10 August 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

will you, WG, reinstate Michael Wittmann's medal now that Germany has lifted strict constitutional ban on Nazi symbols to allow them in video games?

 

As reported by RT today!

https://www.rt.com/n...ny-video-games/

 

While this is paritally true, it still can effect recommended age rating and is to be checken on case by case basis. So, it is not that easy for WG to just throw it in now.

jack_timber #3 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:12 PM

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What was said medal for?

Balc0ra #4 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:17 PM

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View Postjack_timber, on 10 August 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

What was said medal for?

 

Spoiler

 

 

But yeah, this is just Germany. There are still other nations in the world that has a different view on that still. And as pointed out above. Swasticas etc still has a chance to bump up the age rating. Even more now considering all the events surrounding that mark of late. 



arthurwellsley #5 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:28 PM

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View PostiRONiVAN_theBattleBorn, on 10 August 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

will you, WG, reinstate Michael Wittmann's medal now that Germany has lifted strict constitutional ban on Nazi symbols to allow them in video games?

 

As reported by RT today!

https://www.rt.com/n...ny-video-games/

 

Second thread about this in a very short time.

The first one got moved out of gameplay;

http://forum.worldof...in-wolfenstein/



Dorander #6 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:16 PM

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Was the removal of said medal at all related to German legislation to begin with?

Enforcer1975 #7 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:24 PM

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View PostDorander, on 10 August 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

Was the removal of said medal at all related to German legislation to begin with?

 

There isn't even a swastika on the medal to begin with. Maybe because he was in the Waffen-SS?

Edited by Enforcer1975, 10 August 2018 - 08:24 PM.


Balc0ra #8 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:59 PM

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View PostDorander, on 10 August 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

Was the removal of said medal at all related to German legislation to begin with?

 

All WG, or SerB said about it back in the day was that WG got 3 letters regarding it from addresses related to German authorities. But never did say who did send them or what they did say as such. Just that they had... concerns about it. 

 

You can google it and find his response on many old blogs still. It was removed in mid 2013 iirc. 



Sessine #9 Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:12 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 10 August 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

 

Spoiler

 

 

But yeah, this is just Germany. There are still other nations in the world that has a different view on that still. And as pointed out above. Swasticas etc still has a chance to bump up the age rating. Even more now considering all the events surrounding that mark of late. 

 

If you look at the numbers it is redundant.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:02 PM

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Block Quote

 German tank commander and historian Wolfgang Schneider  is not as impressed. In analyzing Wittmann's actions at Villers-Bocage, he called into question his tactical ability. Schneider states: "a competent tank company commander does not accumulate so many serious mistakes". He highlights how Wittmann dispersed his forces in a sunken lane with a broken down tank at the head of the column thereby hampering the mobility of his unit. The solitary advance into Villers-Bocage was heavily criticized as it breached "all the rules". No intelligence was gathered, and there was no "centre of gravity" or "concentration of forces" in the attack. Schneider argues that due to Wittmann's rash actions: "the bulk of the 2nd Company and Mobius 1st Company came up against an enemy who had gone onto the defensive".He calls Wittmann's "carefree" advance into British-occupied positions "pure folly", and states that "such over hastiness was uncalled for." He concludes that, had a properly prepared assault been launched, involving the rest of his company and the 1st Company, far greater results could have been achieved. Finally, Schneider opines that: "thoughtlessness of this kind was to cost [Wittmann] his life ... during an attack casually launched in open country with an exposed flank."

 

This is so WOT! :)

Balc0ra #11 Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:34 PM

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View PostSessine, on 10 August 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

 

If you look at the numbers it is redundant.

 

How so? 

Dorander #12 Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:20 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 10 August 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

All WG, or SerB said about it back in the day was that WG got 3 letters regarding it from addresses related to German authorities. But never did say who did send them or what they did say as such. Just that they had... concerns about it. 

 

You can google it and find his response on many old blogs still. It was removed in mid 2013 iirc. 

 

I'm having some trouble finding original sources. Mostly talk after the fact. I'll look again tomorrow when I'm less tired.

 

I did notice the discussions about the removal unsurprisingly follow much the same pattern of the discussion in the other thread that was moved to Offtopic.

 

In the end though I doubt this medal will see a comeback. The gist of it seems to be that the medal was removed because it glorifies a Nazi, not because it's forbidden Nazi symbolism which would fall under section 86a of German criminal law.



Simeon85 #13 Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 10 August 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

 

Maybe because he was in the Waffen-SS?

 

He was, which is why the medal shouldn't be re-instated, he's a nazi fan boy hero and people still get weird about these things. 



Enforcer1975 #14 Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:42 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 11 August 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

 

He was, which is why the medal shouldn't be re-instated, he's a nazi fan boy hero and people still get weird about these things. 

Who cares about neo nazis. Those guys would be the first he would put in a gas chamber. 

As long as it doesn't glorify nazi germany it shouldn't matter. 

The in game medal for me is a reward for 7 kills, nothing more. You could also say that everybody who loves german tanks / wehraboo is a nazi or those who love russian tanks are communists. 

Was Wittman a nazi? Nobody knows for sure. He could have joined the SS because of the career possibilities. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 11 August 2018 - 09:51 AM.


Browarszky #15 Posted 11 August 2018 - 11:59 AM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 11 August 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

Who cares about neo nazis. Those guys would be the first he would put in a gas chamber. 

As long as it doesn't glorify nazi germany it shouldn't matter. 

The in game medal for me is a reward for 7 kills, nothing more. You could also say that everybody who loves german tanks / wehraboo is a nazi or those who love russian tanks are communists. 

Was Wittman a nazi? Nobody knows for sure. He could have joined the SS because of the career possibilities. 

 

More to the point, should he be judged solely based on what others think about him or what he actually did or didn't do?

RamRaid90 #16 Posted 11 August 2018 - 12:07 PM

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View PostSessine, on 10 August 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

 

If you look at the numbers it is redundant.

 

You can still get 7 kills in a game...

SuNo_TeSLa #17 Posted 11 August 2018 - 12:10 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 11 August 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

 

He was, which is why the medal shouldn't be re-instated, he's a nazi fan boy hero and people still get weird about these things. 

 

Valid point, Kurt Knispel given his record with the Nazi authorities could most likely be of good use though :)

Enforcer1975 #18 Posted 11 August 2018 - 01:06 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 11 August 2018 - 11:59 AM, said:

 

More to the point, should he be judged solely based on what others think about him or what he actually did or didn't do?

 

Like every soldier back then he fought for his country and killed people. Nations conquered other nations too and many people including civilians were killed as far back as we can think. Many wars were fought because one group hated the other, should we judge all of them? Are they all war criminals? 

I doubt he was out for blood, if the story is true he saved a T-34 crew when they had to abandon their burning tank and were on fire themselves. He ordered his crew to help them and they parted ways. 



Dorander #19 Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:30 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 11 August 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

More to the point, should he be judged solely based on what others think about him or what he actually did or didn't do?

 

What people think of him, is a form of judgement. I suppose you mean to ask what people think he believed, as intent does matter?

 

View PostEnforcer1975, on 11 August 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

Like every soldier back then he fought for his country and killed people. Nations conquered other nations too and many people including civilians were killed as far back as we can think. Many wars were fought because one group hated the other, should we judge all of them? Are they all war criminals? 

I doubt he was out for blood, if the story is true he saved a T-34 crew when they had to abandon their burning tank and were on fire themselves. He ordered his crew to help them and they parted ways. 

 

These silly generalizations in an attempt to reduce a Nazi to a mere generic soldier are both ridiculous and nonsensical. We do, in fact, judge wars historically, as well as their motives and intended goals. There are definitions of what constitutes warcrimes, it's not merely the act of fighting a war. Just stop JAQing off already.

 

Wittman was not just an SS member, he was an actual member of the NSDAP since 1938. So yes, we know for sure he was a Nazi. Unless your next ridiculous claim is going to be they held a gun to his head to become a member of the NSDAP and then forced him to become a Nazi posterboy.



Slyspy #20 Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 11 August 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

 

Was Wittman a nazi? Nobody knows for sure. He could have joined the SS because of the career possibilities. 

 

I don't think you understand as much about this as perhaps you should.




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