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The Weak Super Heavy IS-4

Is4 weak weak tank

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isi_pak15 #1 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:19 AM

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Hello Tankers!

This tank is called "Super Heavy" :D 

What is the super heavy thing in this tank? The big weak roof on turret is easily penetrated. All you need is a 90+ mm Gun to penetrate. At least WG should take this in review and change the impacted armor of roof from 30mm to 40mm, so it would not be over-matched by lights of tier 8 9 10 at least.  



HundeWurst #2 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:39 AM

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The roof weakspot is the least of the IS4s problems. There are bigger fish to fry.

TsundereWaffle #3 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:41 AM

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IS-4 is considered a super heavy? What?

Cobra6 #4 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:42 AM

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The potato gun handling is a far bigger problem that the IS-4 has, it's armor is quite useful actually if you angle it well.

 

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UrQuan #5 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:55 AM

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First thing to note: the IS-4 is not a super-heavy, lacks the characteristics for it. It is a well-armored TX tank tho with okay mobility. The roof weakspot is present on other IS tanks as well (IS-3 being best known for it). And don't see a need to change it, as the tank is very tough to kill in skilled hands.

The armor works as long as you don't charge in blindly (this counts for about any armored tank really). Very resilient tank once you got the hang of its armor layout.

 

The main thing that prevents the IS-4 from shining as TX heavy is the terrible gun handling tho. It's very old school, from the early days of WoT. It can do with a serious update on that front.

 


Edited by UrQuan, 15 August 2018 - 08:56 AM.


Body_Count #6 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:08 AM

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-needs a bigger gun (or/and a better gun), 440 dmg with slow reload is a joke, when the only thing that matter is either a big gun or fast reload. 
-needs more hp, 2500 hp is not enough if you're angling it at corner and you're getting hit by 300-600 dmg by HE shells. Getting hit by more dmg from HE then your main gun does is silly 
-needs better roof
-buffing side plates or frontal plate a bit won't hurt it either. 

No one cares if you hit them for 440, the tank simply can't hold it's ground vs anything with that crap reload and such low alpha. 

Either buff bunch of crap on it or make it as fast as WZ or is7 and leave it as it is. 
 

Edited by Body_Count, 15 August 2018 - 09:09 AM.


KillingJoker #7 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:13 AM

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IS-4 main problem is that the whole armor become irrelevant when people press the 2 key, the overall armor is only effective (even when well angled) till 270mm, after that

you get penetrated from every angle, it doesn't matter,

 

its decent for sidescrape, but the fact the  hull front is so weak, kills the tank, in my opinion the ST-I is a much better tank for the simple fact it have more gun depression

and better turret. 

 

If you ask me, i would swap the IS-4 to tier IX, and just bring the ST-I to tier X, with more xp and a bigger gun... a 560 alpha or a 650 would do the trick...



kaneloon #8 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:18 AM

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A "weak" ussr tank ... something rare.

Other countries with weak tX when they have few are in more urgent need of a buff.

 

And wasn't there supposed to be a rework including the StI ? It was a year ago.



UrQuan #9 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:30 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 15 August 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

And wasn't there supposed to be a rework including the StI ? It was a year ago.

 

Yes, WG has talked & talked about this for years. It was the line to be reworked before even their grand High Tier rework was in effect. They even produced several models & propositions. From simply buffing IS-4, to swapping the IS-4 & ST-I (as you proposed, one of the more popular community suggetsions) to even introduce a new TX to replace the IS-4 (the ST-II, double barreled ST monster)

And then came & went the high tier rework & one of the most (and longest) discussed high tier change/swaps was left untouched, the ST-I / IS-4.

Bonus; the high tier rework was about bringing more consistency in lines, yet they didn't touch the inconsistency of the KV line (from KV-1 to KV-4, the tanks are all armored metal boxes with excellent hull armor layout, then suddenly: ST-I: hulldown monster with okay hull armor, then poof: IS-4: good all-round armored heavy with mobility.

 

Even now they're still discussion changes to the line from time to time, it pops up in Q&A stuff once in a while.



Hellraiser0201 #10 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:31 AM

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It wasn't so weak years ago when gold ammo wasn't available for credits.

Also power creep made it weak. New tanks are better and better and some of them even got buffs while IS4 lies forgotten.

It's not a wonder that we rarely see them on the battlefield.

 



ares354 #11 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:38 AM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 15 August 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

IS-4 main problem is that the whole armor become irrelevant when people press the 2 key, the overall armor is only effective (even when well angled) till 270mm, after that

you get penetrated from every angle, it doesn't matter,

 

its decent for sidescrape, but the fact the  hull front is so weak, kills the tank, in my opinion the ST-I is a much better tank for the simple fact it have more gun depression

and better turret. 

 

If you ask me, i would swap the IS-4 to tier IX, and just bring the ST-I to tier X, with more xp and a bigger gun... a 560 alpha or a 650 would do the trick...

 

No to bigger gun on rasha tanks, 705a have 650 and turret WITH 0 WEAKSPOT to front. Not good for game whatsoever 

You wanna give Rasha tanks 560 alpha, fine. As long as their turret like PZ 7 will have cupola with craparmor, hole in mantlet, 200 mm or armor on turret ring. Then you can give rasha 560 dmg gun. 

Flowtec_ #12 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:57 AM

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I dont know, I have over 2k battles in IS-7 and around 500 battles in IS-4 and whenever I drive IS-4 I just feel more safe. IS-7 is great, but IS-4 feels more resilient to me. Only big problem IS-4 has in my eyes is weak roof. Gun is better than on IS-7, overall protection feels also better. But I still love IS-7 more :-)

Simeon85 #13 Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:03 AM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

 

No to bigger gun on rasha tanks, 705a have 650 and turret WITH 0 WEAKSPOT to front. Not good for game whatsoever 

You wanna give Rasha tanks 560 alpha, fine. As long as their turret like PZ 7 will have cupola with craparmor, hole in mantlet, 200 mm or armor on turret ring. Then you can give rasha 560 dmg gun. 

 

Panzer VII is way way stronger than an IS4, even with 560 alpha the IS4 would be weaker than the Panzer VII.

 

Panzer is one of the best tier 10 heavies, has a better win rate curve than the IS4 by far and even better than the Super Conqueror -

 

Posted Image

 

Win rate curve is pretty much on par with the 705A as well. It also bounces the 2nd most out of tier 10 heavies behind the Maus -

 

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=10&tanktype=3&nation=0&premium=1&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=nodamageshotsratio&server=

 

Panzer VII needs zero buffs, the IS4 clearly needs buffing, though the IS4 doesn't need it's armour buffing either, it bounces over 45% of shots fired at it.

 

So a gun or mobility buff is needed.

 

The T110E5 is the tier 10 heavy that needs the most attention at the moment, horrible underperforming win rate curve (50% players get a 46% win rate in the tank) and a global win rate of 46.46%, the worst of all tier 10 heavies and 5th worst of all tier 10 tanks. 

 

 



ares354 #14 Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:31 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 15 August 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

Panzer VII is way way stronger than an IS4, even with 560 alpha the IS4 would be weaker than the Panzer VII.

 

Panzer is one of the best tier 10 heavies, has a better win rate curve than the IS4 by far and even better than the Super Conqueror -

 

Posted Image

 

Win rate curve is pretty much on par with the 705A as well. It also bounces the 2nd most out of tier 10 heavies behind the Maus -

 

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=10&tanktype=3&nation=0&premium=1&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=nodamageshotsratio&server=

 

Panzer VII needs zero buffs, the IS4 clearly needs buffing, though the IS4 doesn't need it's armour buffing either, it bounces over 45% of shots fired at it.

 

So a gun or mobility buff is needed.

 

The T110E5 is the tier 10 heavy that needs the most attention at the moment, horrible underperforming win rate curve (50% players get a 46% win rate in the tank) and a global win rate of 46.46%, the worst of all tier 10 heavies and 5th worst of all tier 10 tanks. 

 

 

 

People HEAR simeon 85, PZ 7 is one of the best HT in tier X, and SO few people play it, UNKNOW reason. 

Even tho PZ 7 is longer in this game, almost twice more people play 705A. High no dmg shoot is easy to explain. People dont know this tank, because SO FEW are played . 

And too bad you compere PZ 7 now to IS 4 with no 560 alpha. No!!! to give rasha bigger alpha guns, they dont need them. 

High WR is too easy to explain, fewer bad, so-so player grind it. They tend to go to SQ, IS 7, etc. 

Edited by ares354, 15 August 2018 - 10:32 AM.


Dava_117 #15 Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:51 AM

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IS-4 need a second HD collision model (to increase poligonation) frontal turret buff to 300mm (as in ST-I HD model) and some other stuff like better gun handling or the Obj277 gun (considering the 2 lines share a lot of guns it would be a reasonable choice to increase the fire power).

Turret weackspot must stay. But maybe the "cupola" should go.


Edited by Dava_117, 15 August 2018 - 10:53 AM.


ares354 #16 Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 15 August 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

IS-4 need a second HD collision model (to increase poligonation) frontal turret buff to 300mm (as in ST-I HD model) and some other stuff like better gun handling or the Obj277 gun (considering the 2 lines share a lot of guns it would be a reasonable choice to increase the fire power).

Turret weackspot must stay. But maybe the "cupola" should go.

 

IS 4 never had this armor, he dont need it. 

He need to go tier IX. 

Gremlin182 #17 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:00 AM

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I was thinking much the same yesterday Me in my tier 8 heavy admittedly a AMX 65t and this IS4 roles round the corner and one shots me.

 

I thought what a crappy weak tank the IS4 is, definitely needs a buff.

as long as 3 5 7 is here you have plenty of low tier tanks to feast on and little to complain about.



leggasiini #18 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:03 AM

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Gun buff is what IS-4 needs; armor is perfectly fine, IMO, especially considering it moves quite well for a tank with 160mm side armor and a fairly solid turret. Turret armor buff is unnecessary, it bounces well enough and I dont think it needs to be IS-7 levels of good, anyway. I don't know why it needs to have worse gun than a tier 9 HT (T-10), especially when its platform, while pretty solid, is not godlike. The firepower is so far behind when compared to majority of tier 10 HTs that its hilarious.

 

The gun handling should be much, much better. Even 750 alpha guns have better gun handling, and IS-4 doesn't have good DPM, either. Hell, even the alpha is fairly poor for a tanky heavy, so everything but pen is anything between worst-in-class and sub-par. They should buff the aim time to 2.4 seconds or so, buff the movement bloom by at least 50%, or even more, probably buff accuracy to 0.35 to increase comfy value and then buff DPM to around 2400 or so. This would make the IS-4 an all around flexible tanky heavy and would be rather comfortable to play and actually need brains, since the armor layout rewards intelligent usage.

 

As for the potential line changes, a good compromise would be to just buff the current IS-4, rename it into IS-4M and then make it a reward vehicle, and then do the IS-4 and ST-I swap, with IS-4 at tier 9 having "earlier" look (kinda like how the old tier 9 IS-4 was). This way the ST-I - IS-4 swap is implemented, which is more logical, BUT those who want to keep IS-4 as a tier 10 can also have that. The current IS-4 model is based on IS-4M, anyway, so it actually makes sense.


Edited by leggasiini, 15 August 2018 - 11:06 AM.


Simeon85 #19 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:04 AM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

 

People HEAR simeon 85, PZ 7 is one of the best HT in tier X, and SO few people play it, UNKNOW reason. 

Even tho PZ 7 is longer in this game, almost twice more people play 705A. High no dmg shoot is easy to explain. People dont know this tank, because SO FEW are played . 

And too bad you compere PZ 7 now to IS 4 with no 560 alpha. No!!! to give rasha bigger alpha guns, they dont need them. 

High WR is too easy to explain, fewer bad, so-so player grind it. They tend to go to SQ, IS 7, etc. 

 

Number of people playing is irrelevant for the WR curve, they are skill adjusted so it just shows that Panzer VII is better than IS4, and for most players it's better than the Super Conqueror.

 

IS4 clearly needs something, not sure it needs more armour when it bounces over 45% and we don't need more armour powercreep so giving it more alpha seems a sensible solution to me.

 

Point seems moot though considering WG seem to want to replace it with the ST-I

 

Also btw there are 39k Panzer VIIs on the EU server, there are only 19k 705As, so the played games on vbaddict are more likely fuelled by Russian players, Russian tank is popular with Russian players shock. On EU the Panzer VII is more popular than the 705A. 



leggasiini #20 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:09 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 15 August 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

IS4 clearly needs something, not sure it needs more armour when it bounces over 45% and we don't need more armour powercreep so giving it more alpha seems a sensible solution to me.

I don't think an alpha buff is necessary - we already have a big variety of slow, tanky heavies with big alpha. Would be cool to have more a DPM based sidescraping heavy than yet another one with bigass gun.

 

There is a crapton of room for buffing the IS-4's gun - accuracy, aim time, bloom, DPM, etc etc. The gun is so handicapped for no good reason that you could just keep buffing the IS-4's gun until the tank becomes competitive - no need for touching the armor or mobility.







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