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The Weak Super Heavy IS-4

Is4 weak weak tank

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ares354 #21 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:11 AM

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 Number of people playing is irrelevant for the WR curve, they are skill adjusted so it just shows that Panzer VII is better than IS4, and for most players it's better than the Super Conqueror.

 

When we use to talk about nerf to 907, you talk is VERY relevant to not take WR of 907 into consideration because only good or best player have it. Now you undo this logic. So if we talk abut 907 player who play it count, but for PZ 7 not. Twisted logic, like Commies. 

 

Block Quote

 IS4 clearly needs something, not sure it needs more armour when it bounces over 45% and we don't need more armour powercreep so giving it more alpha seems a sensible solution to me.

 

Agree, drop to tier IX will be best solution. No fake armor or engines to add to him 

 

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 Point seems moot though considering WG seem to want to replace it with the ST-I

 

I love that idea. After all, ST 1 use IS 4 hull, in this game WG buffed it a bit in front. But turret was made by some engineer after IS 4 was builded. 

 

Block Quote

 Also btw there are 39k Panzer VIIs on the EU server, there are only 19k 705As, so the played games on vbaddict are more likely fuelled by Russian players, Russian tank is popular with Russian players shock. On EU the Panzer VII is more popular than the 705A. 

 

WG balance this game base on RU sever statistics, so RU stats are important ones. 



Simeon85 #22 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:24 AM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

When we use to talk about nerf to 907, you talk is VERY relevant to not take WR of 907 into consideration because only good or best player have it. Now you undo this logic. So if we talk abut 907 player who play it count, but for PZ 7 not. Twisted logic, like Commies. 

 

 

I said nothing of the sort, I have consistently said the 907 should have it's side armour nerfed back to what it was as it made it OP and was a stupid buff that was not needed.  

 

So not at all twisted logic, there are more than enough players to provide statistics for the Panzer VII and it shows it is strong across all skill levels, this is a simple fact. 

 

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 WG balance this game base on RU sever statistics, so RU stats are important ones. 

 

Irrelevant, you said it was less popular than 705A, on EU server this is not the case. 

 

 



ares354 #23 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:34 AM

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I said nothing of the sort, I have consistently said the 907 should have it's side armour nerfed back to what it was as it made it OP and was a stupid buff that was not needed.  

 

So not at all twisted logic, there are more than enough players to provide statistics for the Panzer VII and it shows it is strong across all skill levels, this is a simple fact. 

 

You said it, I have no time to seek, but oc you did. You defend 907 base on player who play it. And i asked for nerf to this thing 

I almost never see PZ 7 in randoms, and I am good player. Bad player see this tank once per 100 game or less. How can he know how to pen that thing if he dont use other site to see armor profile. 

 

Block Quote

 Irrelevant, you said it was less popular than 705A, on EU server this is not the case.

 

Quote me where I said this about EU. 

You provide this link ' http://www.vbaddict....tsratio&server=

Based on this i see over 9 k battles in PZ 7 and over 19k in 705A. 

So relevant. 



Dava_117 #24 Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:50 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 15 August 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

I don't think an alpha buff is necessary - we already have a big variety of slow, tanky heavies with big alpha. Would be cool to have more a DPM based sidescraping heavy than yet another one with bigass gun.

 

There is a crapton of room for buffing the IS-4's gun - accuracy, aim time, bloom, DPM, etc etc. The gun is so handicapped for no good reason that you could just keep buffing the IS-4's gun until the tank becomes competitive - no need for touching the armor or mobility.

 

Well, an indirect alpha buff giving it the 130mm from Obj277 would be good IMO. As I said, the 2 line share almost all the gun from tier 7 (with tier 8 top gun being the only difference). In this way we can have the same difference between IS-4 and 277 as happens in tier 9 between ST-I and T-10.

 

Edit

Saw a lot of typos from Legga quote... :hiding: so had to correct them.


Edited by Dava_117, 15 August 2018 - 12:20 PM.


FizzleMcSnizzle #25 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:00 PM

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Like every other tank in the game, it will get its turn with the buff cloth eventually, either by adjusting is stats, or tier. If competitiveness is your thing, just play what is currently OP, and don't grind tanks that are weak.

leggasiini #26 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:00 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 15 August 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

 

Well, an indirect alpha buff giving it the 130mm from Obj277 would be good IMO. As I said, the 2 line share alost all the gun from tier 7 (with tier 8 top gun beimg the only difference). In this way ee can have the same difference between IS-4 and 277 as happense in tier 9 between ST-I and T-10.

 

I guess, but still don't think that's needed, since 440 alpha is still more unique than 490. You could also go more unique route and keep the gun as 122mm but give the IS-4 a special model with like 265-270 penetration and better shell velocity. WG has already done that with the French 120mm, with penetration varying from as low as 218 mm (AMX 65t) to 264 mm (AMX M4 54), so there is nothing stopping them from doing that (and besides, the historical pen of the M-62T APHE shells were closer to 270ish, anyway).

Simeon85 #27 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:09 PM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

 

You said it, I have no time to seek, but oc you did. You defend 907 base on player who play it. And i asked for nerf to this thing 

I almost never see PZ 7 in randoms, and I am good player. Bad player see this tank once per 100 game or less. How can he know how to pen that thing if he dont use other site to see armor profile. 

 

 

Quote me where I said this about EU. 

You provide this link ' http://www.vbaddict....tsratio&server=

Based on this i see over 9 k battles in PZ 7 and over 19k in 705A. 

So relevant. 

 

No I didn't, you are getting confused with vbaddict and global win rates, you can't trust global win rates for reward tanks because only good players play them which scews the numbers, based on global win rates T95E2 is one of the best tier 8 tanks, when it is actually crap.

 

Plenty of Panzer VIIs are about, you harp on about the mantlet weakpots which are pixel, no player, even point blank range can hit them even with the best guns. Plus if the tank sits front on it has no weakspots full stop, the side weakspots are only viable if the tank angles and sidescrapes. You have to spam HEAT at the lower pen to reliably pen a Panzer VII, which is why it is so strong in randoms.

 

Knowing the side weakspots is irrelevant if the tank sits front on to you. Front on it basically has no weakspots, hence why it bounces over 50% of shots at it and it is the 4th best armoured tank on tier 10 according to vbaddict, pretty much on par with the T110E3. 

 

You said the tank was doing well because it wasn't popular and only good players played, both of which are BS.

 

Panzer VII is very strong, the statistics show this to be true and yet you claim it should be buffed. 

 



MeNoobTank #28 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:13 PM

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I see alot of suggestion regards the IS-4 from buffing the armor to even downtier it in echange of ST-I. My suggestion is simple:

 

Let the tanks as they are - ST-I in tier 9 and IS-4 in tier 10. If devs want to add ST-II, fine, add it as a separate tank in tier X along side IS-4. Then the IS-4 buffs:


Mobility: buff terrain resistence

DPM: decrase the reload time atleast by 1 second and it will be fine.

Gun handling: Buff aim time and dispersion, atleast on T-10 levels of gun handling.

Survivability: Increase health to 2700/2800 HP

 

I know I am a noob but I Think I do kinda decent in the current underpowered IS-4 and I love the tank so I want it to be competitive again.


Edited by MeNoobTank, 15 August 2018 - 12:21 PM.


ares354 #29 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:17 PM

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 No I didn't, you are getting confused with vbaddict and global win rates, you can't trust global win rates for reward tanks because only good players play them which scews the numbers, based on global win rates T95E2 is one of the best tier 8 tanks, when it is actually crap.

 

So you cannot trust WR curver on tanks like PZ 7 coz you have no idea what player play it, simple 

 

Block Quote

 Plenty of Panzer VIIs are about, you harp on about the mantlet weakpots which are pixel, no player, even point blank range can hit them even with the best guns. Plus if the tank sits front on it has no weakspots full stop, the side weakspots are only viable if the tank angles and sidescrapes. You have to spam HEAT at the lower pen to reliably pen a Panzer VII, which is why it is so strong in randoms.

 

113 and WZ 5a did pen me right into that wekaspot on airfield map with AP. BS take from Tajj77 [edited]again 

 

Block Quote

 Knowing the side weakspots is irrelevant if the tank sits front on to you. Front on it basically has no weakspots, hence why it bounces over 50% of shots at it and it is the 4th best armoured tank on tier 10 according to vbaddict, pretty much on par with the T110E3. 

 

Load tier X heat and see this armor and how it works. E3 dont care, PZ 7 do 

 

Block Quote

 

You said the tank was doing well because it wasn't popular and only good players played, both of which are BS.

 

 

Well that the truth, comies like you are blind to 

 

Block Quote

 Panzer VII is very strong, the statistics show this to be true and yet you claim it should be buffed. 

 

That why so few people play it. 

 



OneSock #30 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

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My view is IS4 has reasonable armour but lacks the agility to use it effectively. Maybe slightly better traverse and PTW/ acceleration might help. Or just give it a slight better front hull. 

 

vcristi #31 Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:42 PM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

 

People HEAR simeon 85, PZ 7 is one of the best HT in tier X, and SO few people play it, UNKNOW reason. 

Even tho PZ 7 is longer in this game, almost twice more people play 705A. High no dmg shoot is easy to explain. People dont know this tank, because SO FEW are played . 

And too bad you compere PZ 7 now to IS 4 with no 560 alpha. No!!! to give rasha bigger alpha guns, they dont need them. 

High WR is too easy to explain, fewer bad, so-so player grind it. They tend to go to SQ, IS 7, etc. 

 

You really are a german fanboy bro. 

People show in your face that a GERMAN tank is better in this game than a soviet one an you do what? You say that more people are playing soviet tanks.... Yeah, very [edited] relevant argument...



ogzhnyldrm1907 #32 Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:13 PM

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IS-4 was ok tank in the past imo. But now it is trash like E100. 

Because every new tank that came into the game (Starting from 5A) is way better than other tier 10s. For example, 5A is better IS-7 in every single way except turret armor, 277 is better IS-7 too, S conq is the best tier 10 heavy, 430u is better 113 in every single way.

And the old tanks are buffed. For example they buffed the IS-7, Obj140, Type 5, Maus and so on.

So IS-4 was ok but now it is outdated.

 

And there is horrible premium ammo spam in tier 10. Against full apcr S conq IS-4 is just free farm. 

 

I think the new tanks (5A, 430u, S conq) needs nerf. Because the only thing that balances them is they are not idiot-proof like 268 v4. So if you are not a good player or not careful while playing you don't feel like they are op. 

There are many good players that have 4k+ dpg in s conq. But I don't think they can have that good score in other tanks except 5A and 430u. Because these 3 tanks are OP.

 

But every single player can't perform well in these tanks I don't think WG will nerf them. So IS-4 needs buff.

What buff does it need? I don't know. Since there is premium ammo spam armor is nothing (Except you are sidescraping in higher ground so effective armor is good.). Maybe buff the mobility or the roof armor so it can play hull down. Or buff the gun handling & dpm.

(My English is not good so I am sorry for my mistakes.)

 



Simeon85 #33 Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:43 PM

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View Postares354, on 15 August 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

So you cannot trust WR curver on tanks like PZ 7 coz you have no idea what player play it, simple 

 

 

113 and WZ 5a did pen me right into that wekaspot on airfield map with AP. BS take from Tajj77 [edited]again 

 

 

Load tier X heat and see this armor and how it works. E3 dont care, PZ 7 do 

 

 

Well that the truth, comies like you are blind to 

 

 

That why so few people play it. 

 

 

Wrong, everyone can get a Panzer VII, which is shown by the statistics, the 907 is restricted by being a CW reward so only good CW players can get one and most of them tend to be good players.

 

Those statistics are based on over 93k games from the last month on the EU server with that tank, so you are talking rubbish.

 

Show me a replay of you hitting those 'weakspots' 5 times in a row with other tier 10 heavies at usual brawling distance of 50-100m, I bet you can't.

 

Clearly enough people play it as there are 39k of them on the EU server. 

 



Bennie182 #34 Posted 15 August 2018 - 05:26 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 15 August 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

IS-4 main problem is that the whole armor become irrelevant when people press the 2 key, the overall armor is only effective (even when well angled) till 270mm, after that

you get penetrated from every angle, it doesn't matter,

 

its decent for sidescrape, but the fact the  hull front is so weak, kills the tank, in my opinion the ST-I is a much better tank for the simple fact it have more gun depression

and better turret. 

 

If you ask me, i would swap the IS-4 to tier IX, and just bring the ST-I to tier X, with more xp and a bigger gun... a 560 alpha or a 650 would do the trick...

no, no,no and no!

I don't want ST-I to tier 10. leave it as it is, it's fine. change what's not good, not what is good already.



HundeWurst #35 Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:40 PM

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View PostHellraiser0201, on 15 August 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

It wasn't so weak years ago when gold ammo wasn't available for credits.

Also power creep made it weak. New tanks are better and better and some of them even got buffs while IS4 lies forgotten.

It's not a wonder that we rarely see them on the battlefield.

 

 

Heroes of my Might and Magic 4 Devils were kind of fun units.

Hellraiser0201 #36 Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:02 PM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 15 August 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

 

Heroes of my Might and Magic 4 Devils were kind of fun units.

 

Best hero killer unit in the game :) thanks to the teleport skill.

 

<a href='https://www.ringofsaturn.com/games/heroes4/images/monsters/devils.jpg' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>https://www.ringofsa...ters/devils.jpg</a>


Edited by Hellraiser0201, 15 August 2018 - 09:03 PM.


lnfernaI #37 Posted 16 August 2018 - 12:55 AM

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Simply requires gun handling buffs. Nothing else. If you aren't dumb,armor can be made to work even in current meta.

 

 

View PostHundeWurst, on 15 August 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Heroes of my Might and Magic 4 Devils were kind of fun units.

 The only HOMM game is the third. Everything post-HOMM3, is trash.

 

 


Edited by lnfernaI, 16 August 2018 - 12:56 AM.






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