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T54e1 or t57 heavy - tier for tier


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chillsnotskills #1 Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:13 AM

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Hey guys,

Whats your opinion on both tanks tier for tier? I just unlocked t57 heavy and i was thinking is the 6 million worth it? Is it better tier for tier than t54e1?

 

It took some time to get used to t54e1 bad penetration, but i like fast traverse and cupola rotation. Pen and aiming are both bad but im making it work.

I maybe shot couple of clips of gold in my 160 battles with it so im dont spam gold because of bad pen, i adapt and shoot less armored targets , weakspots(not easy with that troll gun) and try to flank.

 

Hows t57 doing? Anybody has it? Whats it like and do you like it better than tier 9?


Edited by chillsnotskills, 27 August 2018 - 11:14 AM.


tank276 #2 Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:21 AM

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There is an anomaly in the line (maybe the only line that this happens on a such high tier), switching from med to heavy.

T57 heavy is solid. If I had to choose I would pick AMX 50B though.

T54e1 I have sold, but I remember it being a-not-bad grind at all.

Cheers



Cobra6 #3 Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:55 AM

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T54E1 is "underpowered", it's standard penetration is too low to be competitive at tier 9. It's also relatively sluggish which further adds to the problem.

It's not a bad grind but it's not living up to it's potential.

 

T57 Heavy is a good autoloader, nice enough penetration and competitive DPM (similar to single shot tanks, the way it *SHOULD* be).

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 27 August 2018 - 11:56 AM.


DarkPacifist #4 Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:14 PM

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I have played the t54e1 a while ago and  don't know if it has been reworked since then but I remember it as a quite good and fun tank. T57 though is very great in my opinion, good dpm, good reload and 2 sec intra-clip which means dealing damage in only 6 seconds. The problem is that your armor is not that great (you can get some ricochet fortunately but do not rely on that) and your gun is made for close range engagements. Overall a good heavy when you can trade or play with the other heavies as a shield.

Balc0ra #5 Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:51 PM

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Usually, the tier 9 is better tier for tier. But here the T57 is the better of the two. Inc burst damage vs reload etc. Both can get some troll bounces on the turret still. But T54E1 has been rather weak for a long time in the current meta vs other tier 9 clip guns, inc the 13 90 IMO. It's not a hit and rum med as such vs say the 25t AP or even the Standard B. 

Igor_BL #6 Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 27 August 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

 (similar to single shot tanks, the way it *SHOULD* be).

 

 

 

no, it should not.



Cobra6 #7 Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:20 PM

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View PostIgor_BL, on 27 August 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

no, it should not.

 

Yes it should, every competitive autoloader has almost the same DPM as the same tier single-shot tanks. Just look at good autoloaders on various tiers and compare their DPM.

Autoloaders which have (significantly) less DPM then the single-shot counterparts are generally the ones considered underpowered.

 

The difference between autoloader and single-shot should only be whether you want to do all your damage in a burst or consistently over time.

 

Cobra 6



Kurat666 #8 Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:27 PM

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Only thing that turns down t54e1 for me is the standard penetration. I do not fancy to shoot premium too much.  I even have it as a keeper with its own crew in garage - but thanks to current heavy META, they are just sitting around and tank is collecting dust...

Negativvv #9 Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:39 PM

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I debated this until I played more T57...

 

 

There's no need for the T54E1 unless you're 3 Marking it as the T57 does the same job better. The faster reload, intra clip and better standard pen will help a lot. Plus the HEAT is the perfect Super HT killer.

 

I sold my T54E1 for credits to buy my T-54 and the crew are going into the Patton grind...



Igor_BL #10 Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:53 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 27 August 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

Yes it should, every competitive autoloader has almost the same DPM as the same tier single-shot tanks. Just look at good autoloaders on various tiers and compare their DPM.

Autoloaders which have (significantly) less DPM then the single-shot counterparts are generally the ones considered underpowered.

 

The difference between autoloader and single-shot should only be whether you want to do all your damage in a burst or consistently over time.

 

Cobra 6

 

What is significant in your book? which percantage?

 

tier10 MT

high-end DPM ~3000

 

BC 25t fantastic tank

DPM 2300

 

TVP50/51 great tank

DPM 2600

 

Progetto

2150, worst in class by far.

 

all 3 are fantastic tanks.

 

Foch tier9

DPM 2300. other tier9 TDs are mostly around 2.9-3.1, excluding Tortoise

even 750 guns have 2400-2600

 

Lorr40t

DPM 1650. tier8 MTs sit around 1.9-2.1k excluding obj416 ofc

T69 has better DPM then Lorr. is it good? haha.

 

 

top tier9 meds DPM 2.5-2,7k

 

SkodaT50 2250

Standard B 1950!

 

both excellent tanks

 

BCt AP has 1850, the lowest in class, still ok tank, there are lot better tier9 meds, but it aint bad tank at all

 

 

etc.

 

 

in fact, there isnt a lot bad autoloaders in this game.

 

T69, FochB probably, 50100 today also, Swedish HTs, or T54e1... and that's about it

All of these are probably workable, except T69 which is pure crap.

 

What make those tank bad or worse then their counterparts is more awful gunhandling, then DPM. You can give T69 as much DPM as you want, it is crap because gun is crap.

 

Block Quote

 The difference between autoloader and single-shot should only be whether you want to do all your damage in a burst or consistently over time.

 

And how would that functionate? to make all autoloaders like Italians?

 

if all autoloaders would have same DPM as single-shooters, it would be almost impossible to win against them 1-1 in regular tanks.

They could clip you, just pull back behind some cover, not even in a need to run (like 35 seconds reload Batcat is today vs some tierX MT), and peek again very soon.

 

Why would BC25t run away from some Paton if he is on 100m and with reload like TVP? Just pull back behind corner, in a time enemy comes, you will be almost ready again.

 


Edited by Igor_BL, 27 August 2018 - 01:55 PM.


Cradle_2_The_Grave #11 Posted 27 August 2018 - 02:07 PM

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In my opinion T54E1 still works much better for its tier than T57 Heavy, here is why...

If you check stats T57 is clearly a beast compared to T54E1 but that's not all.

What makes T54E1 better is it's a medium tank which means less pressure on you, you don't have to tank for your team, you can hold back until everyone is in place then go for distracted ones, however this doesn't work for T57 most of the time becasue T57 is a heavy tank, there will be games you will be only top heavy tank vs the enemy Type 5, Maus, E100 or any other tank that has some armor, should you hold back? He will kill your tier 9 heavy tanks quickly, if you play aggressively with T57 you will lose hp quickly..

What I noticed when playing T54E1 was that the people didn't pay much attention to me, this tank is bit rare, tanks like is3 and t34 and many other good meal tanks would come and charge me I felt like they didn't even know that T54E1 is an autoloader lol

I was very successful with T54E1 and felt like I will do even better with T57 since it's better in every aspect but I fell so hard and worst winrate of all my tier 8-10 tanks, I know I am not a good player and this is just my experience and opinion with these 2 tanks, surely there are some who are very successful with T57, would love to hear some good tips from them.

So let me repeat, the main problem with T57 is, it's in a heavy tanks category and goes against well armored tanks, offers your team no shield but a gun, so you really need someone to tank for you until you do your job here and there, if you go frontline face to face with enemy, if it's only 1 it's ok you can show up take 1 hit and score 3-4 in return but if there are more tanks and you take 2-3 hits then that's not a good trade.

In T57 I always wish that there will be more of tier X heavy tanks on both teams so I am not needed to block damage and rather can drive around and surprise enemies when showing up from the sides or behind.

Finally I gotta say T57 is an awesome tank but current MM is not in your favour, only if they move it to medium class it would be really awesome and I don't think it would be OP, T57 is fun to drive but jussss losing is no fun xD

Sorry for a long post.

zimer100 #12 Posted 27 August 2018 - 02:22 PM

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T54e1 loved it.

T57 is garbage, but i keep it cuz its tier 10



ares354 #13 Posted 27 August 2018 - 02:30 PM

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T54e1 have one problem in this game, he's old style tank, balanced in old WG ways. 

Giving him more pen would just broke the tank. Right now, he crapon tier 8, with normal ammo, but will struggle vs some tier 10. I love that tank, but i dont know what buff would do him justice. He have beast outburst. Best on tier 9 by far. BC may have more shells in clip, but T54e1 unload so fast, you wont take so much dmg. 

Dr_Oolen #14 Posted 27 August 2018 - 02:48 PM

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t57 sure is better at t10 than t54 is at t9.

 

T54E1 is completely terrible these days unless you go full gold, and even then its bad. Basically you have armor that doesnt really do anything on a medium tank with mobility worse than plenty of the faster heavies. Its slower than t-10, 11114, even 257 or emil II and is almost at the level of speed of what are these days "slow" heavies like m103 or m4 51, with armor way worse than all those tanks and gun way worse than all those tanks. Even if it had actual medium tank level of speed and maneuvrability the gun would be just too bad these days with that pen, aimtime, accuracy and dispersions. 

 

What the tank would need to be well balanced would be pretty much all this imo:

- hp/t from 14.5 to at least 16.5

- top speed from 43 to at least 48

- pen from 210/255 to at least 225/265

- aimtime from 2.9 to at least 2.5

- dispersion on turret traverse from 0.14 to at least 0.12

 

Alternatively, and im not even joking here, WG could/should simply make T69 and T54E1 into heavy tanks and make them play more like t57.

 

In which case something like this would need to take place:

- T69 and t54 nerfed top speeds to 35/12 (forward/backward) from 51/20 and 43/20; nerf hull traverse to ~30 from ~48

- increase HP to 1500 (1350) on t69 and 1900 (1750) on t54e1

- buff pen on t54e1 from 210/255 to 240/280 (change apcr to heat); on t69 from 181/250 to 215/255 

- change clip reload from 34.5 to 27.5 on t54e1, and from 26 to 18 on t69

- nerf dispersions of t54/e1 from 0.2/0.2/0.14 to 0.22/0.22/0.15

- buff armor of t69 and t54e1 to be tier for tier about as good as t57 (t57 bounces 32%, t54e1 now 23% and t69 22% - but its a t8, so id make a guess if T8 mm was as good as t9/10 MM it would be bouncing probably close to 28-29%)

- and to make t57 a bit more relevant buff its dispersions from 0.25/0.25/0.18 to 0.22/0.22/0.15


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 27 August 2018 - 02:51 PM.


FizzleMcSnizzle #15 Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:03 PM

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T57 was a lot better in my experience a year or so back. But it was starting to feel increasingly lacklustre compared to the opposition. Still a buzz to find yourself on a city map and pick off four low health targets in one clip though

MrClark56 #16 Posted 27 August 2018 - 06:25 PM

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I love my t54e1. But to be honest it doesnt fit the current meta of super armored tonks. And it is a tank you have to play like an egoist. Leaving flanks and friends die to be able to sneak on enemies later. I have been bullied for that reason and got good games out of it. Can it carry? Yea as long as you have enemies focusing on other tanks and you are hiding like a chicken reloading... My WR is bad in it. Hope the T57 will be better but i agree no one expects a 54e1 to carry but you have to in a T57 ht. So it will be harder even if it is a better tank. 

Simeon85 #17 Posted 27 August 2018 - 06:46 PM

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T57, one of the most efficient damage farmers in the game due to sheer burst size/clip speed/DPM combo, it's obscene how quickly that thing can rack up damage if you let it. Plus it has the troll armour to survive a bit longer than the paper autloaders, the fear factor or a T57 about to unload on you often causes people to panic their shot and bounce off the weird angles. 

 

T57 is particularly good if you can platoon with a genuine heavy to take shots, that is a deadly combo. 

 

T54E1 still has nice burst but the low pen + poor mobility kills it, the Skoda T50 is just a much superior tank. 

 

I agree with Oolen above they should just buff the T54E1 and T69 to be more like heavies, more like the T57, there are already smaller clip paper med autoloaders on tier 8-10 with the Italian and Cxech lines, they should make the T57 line fit with the tier 10, somewhat bouncy, very high DPM, very fast burst, slow support heavies. 


Edited by Simeon85, 27 August 2018 - 06:49 PM.


kaneloon #18 Posted 27 August 2018 - 07:07 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 27 August 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

 

Alternatively, and im not even joking here, WG could/should simply make T69 and T54E1 into heavy tanks and make them play more like t57.

 

True that the swedish Emil heavies - which too are from a medium line - are almost as swift as the americans and certainly weight many tons less.



Brodie_ #19 Posted 27 August 2018 - 07:12 PM

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I got the T57 after it's accuracy was nerfed to oblivion!

I have over 20 tier 10 tanks now.

The T57 was my 3rd, & was the most disappointingly abysmal experience of any tier 10 ever!

Even when less than 50 m from a target I found that 2 of my perfectly aimed shots would miss by an absolutely unbelievable distance!

The amount of times I expected to be able to finish an enemy, but did not due to the aweful rng I got, then was killed as a result was beyond a joke!

I refuse to sell a tier 10 tank on point of principal!
But if I chose to...
The T57 would be the one...

It had my best crew in at the time.
They are now in the M48 Patton!

It sits there crewless now!
Every so often I try it on the test server, whenever I try to convince myself it is not that bad!
The answer is always No!

I put every other tier 10 above it that I own!
If you want that playstyle?
Go for the TVP.
The TVP is an absolute dream!

Good luck!

P.S. Do not judge my 70% hit ratio a success in it!
As half of those shots missed the weak spots that I had perfectly aimed at! (& bounced...) :/

 

Loved the T54e1...

 


Edited by Brodie_, 27 August 2018 - 07:15 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #20 Posted 27 August 2018 - 08:09 PM

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The T54E1: the mobility plain sucks, the armor sucks most of the time and the gun sucks often (regarding accuracy/bloom/aim time). I expected more but don't like it.




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