Jump to content


Tier X British Light Tank Candidates


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:57 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 16669 battles
  • 2,577
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016
Which one do you think it would make more sense to be?

Grand_Moff_Tano #2 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:00 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

In my opinion there is only 1 tank that can fit Tier 10 for the Light Tanks in the British tree

 

 

The Vickers VFM 5.



The_Georgian_One #3 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:05 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38053 battles
  • 1,710
  • [KOFN] KOFN
  • Member since:
    01-05-2015
Have there been any discussions as to what could the line look like?

FluffyRedFox #4 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:06 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 24006 battles
  • 8,721
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

"Which one"

Well there's the thing, the VFM 5 is the only real tier X worthy LT that the brits could have. However, you could argue that its too modern for the game, with the first prototype made in 1986. What you can do is make a "historical fake" along the same lines as the E50M, in that you can take the Vickers 24t Light and give it a 105mm L7 (of course shafting the gun to being basically useless since tier X lights aren't allowed to have guns). Its historically possible since the 24t was intended to mount a 20pdr, and the L7 was designed to fit the mountings of the 20pdr.


Edited by FluffyRedFox, 03 September 2018 - 08:07 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #5 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:09 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Got any pics of the 25t?

FluffyRedFox #6 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:12 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 24006 battles
  • 8,721
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

Got any pics of the 25t?
Clipped version, forgotten where I got the original from

 



Grand_Moff_Tano #7 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:14 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Looks interesting, could be a good contender for Tier 10 if it gets the 105mm. It also looks similar hull wise to the Vickers MBT, I'm assuming this would have been the light tank that was developed from that particular MBT?

fighting_falcon93 #8 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:14 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32092 battles
  • 4,185
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

View PostFluffyRedFox, on 03 September 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

Its historically possible since the 24t was intended to mount a 20pdr, and the L7 was designed to fit the mountings of the 20pdr.

 

Wouldn't it be better to give it the 20 pdr instead of the 105 mm L7 then? I mean to make it a bit more unique :)



cragarion #9 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:15 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 44728 battles
  • 2,857
  • Member since:
    07-10-2010

Scorpion designed in 1967,   http://www.tanks-enc...is_Scorpion.php

 

FV101 Scorpion

By  On November 14, 2014 · 2 Comments

gb.gif United Kingdom (1972)
Light Tank. Around 3,000 built total

Development

In 1966, the Army devised a new specification for a Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) or CVR(T). In 1967, after plans were submitted by the manufacturers, Alvis was chosen to produce a 30 vehicle prototypes preseries. The latter were called P1 to P17 and delivered on schedule and budget, these were sent to be tested at home, and then abroad, in the most severe conditions, in Norway, Canada but also Abu Dhabi and Australia. After corrections by the manufacturers, the Scorpion was accepted for service in may 1970 and ordered to 275, then 313 units to Alvis Vehicles Ltd at Coventry. The first rolled off the line in early 1972. Only 1500 would equip the British army, while around 1500 more were built for the export market and were (or are still) in service with twenty-one more countries.

7th Brigade Royal Scots in the Iraki desert, operation Desert Storm, 1991
Vanguard vehicle used during the first gulf war of 1990

Design

The Scorpion is a simple vehicle apparently on the straight line of British light tank design, with the engine on the front and turret/fighting compartment on the rear. Apart from the nose which is rounded, there is a well-sloped front plate, with a beak. The sides were also slightly sloped and counted strappings and fasteners for external equipment and tooling. Short mudguards circling the upper hull, while the drivetrain was made of two front drive sprockets, two rear idlers, and six rubberized roadwheels suspended on torsion bars.

The turret was also well-sloped to a great angle and counted a single rotatable commander cupola with height prismatic blocs. The armor was limited to 12.7 mm, and in aluminum, so the overall weight was limited to just 8 tons. A special coating was applied inside to cope with a possible hit which would have made the aluminum hull prone to burn quickly. The hull was completely sealed, proven NBC (Nuclear, Chemical, Bacteriological protection) and equipped for semi-amphibious crossings, with flotation screen deployed.

FV-101 at Adlershot museum
FV-101 at Adlershot museum – Credits: Gaius Cornelius – Wikipedia

The engine was at first the Jaguar J60 4.2-litre petrol engine but a diesel was chosen later during production to increase range. The final one was the Cummins BTA 5.9-litre capable of 190 hp, or a Perkins equivalent. Trials showed that top speed was 50 mph (80 km/h), and it was up to accelerations from one to 30 mph (49 km/h) in just 16 sec. In water, this was reduced to 3.6 mph (5.8 km/h). The engine was served by a David Brown TN15 transmission. The armament comprised the main ROF (Royal Ordnance Factory) 76mm L23A1 gun, tailored for the Scorpion in 1973, which could be fed with various ammunition, ranging from HE to various AP rounds.

It had a 6 rounds per minute rate of fire and an effective range of 2,200 m (2,400 yds). This was completed by a Coaxial 7.62 mm L43A1 machine gun, fed by 3000 cartridges, including tracers. Other equipment included a wireless radio, image intensification sights for the gunner and driver and IF vision. Internal commodities comprised a commander’s commode under his seat, a water tank and a boiling vessel.

Evolution: The Scorpion 90

Most of the changes occurred in the engine, and external fittings. There were no marks, and export models were very close or identical to the original design. The Irish-based company IED also proposed to modernize the Scorpion fleet using the more powerful Steyr M16 TCA HD engine, and the gun was upgraded to a 90 mm, hence the name, Alvis Scorpion 90. The long-barrelled Cockerill Mk3 M-A1 90mm version was intended first to feed the export market and keep Alvis lines running after the British orders have been delivered.

Sister vehicles

The Scorpion was close or served as a common platform for a long line of armored vehicles. Its sister CRV(T) was the FV107 Scimitar (1971), nearly identical but equipped with a high velocity 30 mm L21 RARDEN cannon firing sabot, HE, and APSE rounds. There were also derivatives like the FV106 Samson light ARV (1977), the FV102 Striker (1976), light tank hunter firing Swingfire wire-guided missiles, the FV103 Spartan APC (1978), the FV104 Samaritan ambulance, and the FV105 Sultan mobile HQ.

Extra turrets from discarded Fox reconnaissance vehicles were later fitted to the Sabre CRV(T) reconnaissance vehicle, making a sub-variant in 1995. However, it was not deemed successful and retired from service in 2004. The Alvis Stormer AT version, carrying Starstreak High Velocity Missile system was also tested, as well as a minelaying version. The not well-known variant Salamander is used by the OPFOR in Canada as a dummy T-80 for training today.

Operators

In Europe, the major operators outside the UK and Ireland (19) were Belgium, which ordered 700 units plus a demonstrator, now retired, and Spain. (An unknown number were used by the Spanish Marines until 2009). In South America, users were Bolivia (20), Chile (30, by the Marines), Honduras (19), and Venezuela (78). In the middle east, Iran (130, plus a local modernized version Scorpion 90 called the Tosan, equipped with the Toophan ATGW system), Jordan (80), Oman (120), and the UAE (76).

Belgian Scorpion
Ex-Belgian stripped-off Alvis Scorpion at the Army Museum in Brussels – credits : Megapixie, wikipedia

In Africa, Botswana (60), Nigeria (80), Tanzania (40), and Togo (12). In Asia, operators were Brunei (16), Indonesia (100), Malaysia (26), The Philippines (65), and Thailand (154). Most of these vehicles were the late Scorpion 90 variant.

In action

The first to receive the Scorpion were the Blues and Royals Regiment of the Household Cavalry in 1973. This vehicle then gradually equipped all British reconnaissance units. The special RAF Regiment received also 184 Scorpions in 1981. B Squadron, Blues and Royals was involved in the operations during the Falkland wars in 1982. In 1990, the 1st Queen’s Dragoon Guards and the 1 Squadron RAF Regiment, both attached to the 1st British Armoured Division participated in the first gulf war. Iranian Scorpions were supposedly engaged during the Iran-Irak war of the 1980s, but few details are known.

Sources/Links about the FV 101 Scorpion

The Scorpion on Wikipedia
The Scorpion 2 on Jedsite

FV-101 specifications

Dimensions (L-W-H) 15’7″ x 7’3″ x 6’9″ ft.in
(4.79m x 2.23m x 2.10m)
Total weight, battle ready 8.07 tons (17 800 ibs)
Crew 3 (Driver, commander, gunner)
Propulsion Cummins BTA 5.9-litre (diesel) 190 hp (140 kW) – pwr 22,9 hp/t
Suspension Independant torsion bars
Speed (road) 45 mph (72,5 kph)
Range 470 mi (756 km)
Armament Main : ROF 76mm L23A1
Sec. coaxial 7.62mm GPMG
Armor 12.7 mm front and sides (0.5 in)
Total production 3,000 in 1972-85.

Scorpion
Alvis Scorpion of the British Army with the typical OTAN camouflage, 1975.

 

Scorpion
Alvis CRV(T), without the turret storage.

Blues and Royal, B sqdn, Falklands 1982
Alvis Scorpion, Blues and Royal regiment, B squadron of the Household cavalry, Falklands 1982.

Urban camouflage, 1980s
Alvis Scorpion featuring an urban camouflage, 1980s.

7th Brigade Royal Scots, Irak 1991
7th Brigade Royal Scots, Operation Desert Storm, Irak, feb. 1991.

FV 101 Scorpion at Adlershot
FV101 now preserved at Adlershot.

NZ Scoprion
A New Zealand FV 101.

Scorpion 90
The standard export Scorpion 90, with the typical four-tone “jungle camo” used by some countries.

Gallery


FV 102 Striker, a derivative of the FV-101. Camp New Jersey, Kuwait, during Operation ENDURING FREEDOM – credits wikipedia, public domain

Alvis Spartan
Alvis Spartan FV-103, IFOR, 22nd Engineer Regiment and 1st The Queen\’s Dragoon Guards convoy, Split, Croatia 1996. – credits : Hohum, wikipedia, public domain


Edited by cragarion, 03 September 2018 - 08:23 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #10 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:17 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Scorpion itself with the 76mm gun might be an idea for a Tier 3 or 4 Light Tank, with that 90mm you got a good if not slow Tier 7, with the 30mm RARDEN stock.

FluffyRedFox #11 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:18 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 24006 battles
  • 8,721
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Looks interesting, could be a good contender for Tier 10 if it gets the 105mm. It also looks similar hull wise to the Vickers MBT, I'm assuming this would have been the light tank that was developed from that particular MBT?

Vickers 24t predates the Vickers MBT, but did grow into that design.

Its essentially a cut down version with a 20pdr b barrel of the production Vickers MBT.

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 03 September 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

 

Wouldn't it be better to give it the 20 pdr instead of the 105 mm L7 then? I mean to make it a bit more unique :)

Or have the 20pdr version at tier 9 and the L7 version at tier X. You can make it unique by giving it HESH as premium like the 7/1, making it unique from both other 105mm at tier X and other lights.

View Postcragarion, on 03 September 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

 

1) USE A BLOODY SPOILER

2) FV100 series would be garbo as top tiers


Edited by FluffyRedFox, 03 September 2018 - 08:19 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #12 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:20 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
24t could also make a good Tier 8, leading onto the tier 9 Vickers MBT Mk. 1 and tier 10 Mk. 4. But then you got the thing of "what do you put at Tier 9 and 10". Not ideal but it could work. Any other alternatives?

cragarion #13 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:25 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 44728 battles
  • 2,857
  • Member since:
    07-10-2010

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:

Scorpion itself with the 76mm gun might be an idea for a Tier 3 or 4 Light Tank, with that 90mm you got a good if not slow Tier 7, with the 30mm RARDEN stock.

 

You do know the scorpion was the fastest tank in the world ?.



Grand_Moff_Tano #14 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:27 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View Postcragarion, on 03 September 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

 

You do know the scorpion was the fastest tank in the world ?.

 

That was the Scimitar mate, Scorpion can go 45 mph.

Edited by Grand_Moff_Tano, 03 September 2018 - 08:29 PM.


fighting_falcon93 #15 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:29 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32092 battles
  • 4,185
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

View PostFluffyRedFox, on 03 September 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

Or have the 20pdr version at tier 9 and the L7 version at tier X.

 

Yeah but then it gets the same caliber as Sheridan, WZ-132-1, Rhm.Pzw and AMX 13 105 :P

 

IMHO it would be more interesting if it got a 20 pdr with high penetration and very good DPM. 



cragarion #16 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:30 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 44728 battles
  • 2,857
  • Member since:
    07-10-2010

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

That was the Scimitar mate, Scorpion can go 45 mph, which for an LT is slow. Scimitar with modifications on the original design including Aluminium hull was what beat the world record.

 

FV101 Scorpion (Fastest Production Tank)

main-qimg-82b0dffcf200bc8501f62f067053b7

A British Armoured Recon Vehicle, which weighs 8 tons, and has a Power To Weight Ratio of 22.92hp/ton.

It uses a Cummins BTA 5.9-litre (diesel) producing 190hp.

It currently holds the Guinness World Record for "Fastest Production Tank" because it reached a speed of 82.23kph (51.10mph) at the QuinetiQ Test Track.



Grand_Moff_Tano #17 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:33 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View Postcragarion, on 03 September 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

 

FV101 Scorpion (Fastest Production Tank)

main-qimg-82b0dffcf200bc8501f62f067053b7

A British Armoured Recon Vehicle, which weighs 8 tons, and has a Power To Weight Ratio of 22.92hp/ton.

It uses a Cummins BTA 5.9-litre (diesel) producing 190hp.

It currently holds the Guinness World Record for "Fastest Production Tank" because it reached a speed of 82.23kph (51.10mph) at the QuinetiQ Test Track.

 

If memory serves the tank used was actually a Scimitar, based on the Scorpion chassis and I'm assuming it was modified so it could set that record, even with the Diesel engine it wasn't capable of going that fast.

FluffyRedFox #18 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:35 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 24006 battles
  • 8,721
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

24t could also make a good Tier 8, leading onto the tier 9 Vickers MBT Mk. 1 and tier 10 Mk. 4. But then you got the thing of "what do you put at Tier 9 and 10". Not ideal but it could work. Any other alternatives?

For tier X? I guess you have Scorp 90, but its like a 1990s era export variant. And the historical gun stats would have to be toned down a lot. There's also the issue of filling in a tier 9, and with WG going full "LINES HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT REEEEE" and erm, you're kinda stuffed.

 

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 03 September 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

 

Yeah but then it gets the same caliber as Sheridan, WZ-132-1, Rhm.Pzw and AMX 13 105 :P

 

IMHO it would be more interesting if it got a 20 pdr with high penetration and very good DPM. 

I guess could work, but then you have a gap at tier 9 which idk what you could fill with. 

just replace the 20pdr with a 17pdr :trollface:


Edited by FluffyRedFox, 03 September 2018 - 08:36 PM.


cragarion #19 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:35 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 44728 battles
  • 2,857
  • Member since:
    07-10-2010

View PostGrand_Moff_Tano, on 03 September 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

 

If memory serves the tank used was actually a Scimitar, based on the Scorpion chassis and I'm assuming it was modified so it could set that record, even with the Diesel engine it wasn't capable of going that fast.

 

Then it would not be a Guinness world record would it they don't allow cheats, other wise all of their records would be pointless it is and was what it says it is and was.

Grand_Moff_Tano #20 Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:36 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1765 battles
  • 10,734
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View Postcragarion, on 03 September 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

 

Then it would not be a Guinness world record would it they don't allow cheats, other wise all of their records would be pointless it is and was what it says it is and was.

 

It isn't cheating since it is still a production tank, but the weight would have needed to be reduced in order to go that fast.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users