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Why are LT players obsessed with brawling?


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PowJay #1 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:23 PM

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Let me start by saying that YES, I KNOW that I am not too good in LTs. Not that I am especially good in any tank. I do at least TRY to do what I can to do as much as I can to spot, damage and kill the enemies wherever I can. I am not always successful. However, there is one thing that I always try to do in LTs (those that have at least traditionally had scout MM) and that is SCOUT.


In the past, we had to endure the Pz38na on the way to the Tiger 1 and you would suddenly find yourself facing tier VIII tanks with a tier IV LT on your second or third day of playing. I can understand that this was a bit of a shock, as it was to me. Back then, it was not at all unusual to see a new (or total noob) player sitting at the back trying to snipe tier VIII heavies from a distance.


Two great changes to LTs seem to have brought about a total change in LT gameplay. These are full light-tank lines, and the introduction of normal MM with tier X LTs. This does, however, beg the question why- if LTs now go all the way to tier X- do players buy LTs and play them like TDs or HTs?

 

I have over 27% of my battles in TDs. Despite trying to pimp these out with commanders with Recon and Situational Awareness, and fitting binoculars, there are still times when I am going to be significantly reliant on allies for spotting. I can't say that I am impressed when I find two or three of our LTs brawling in the north on El Halluf, sitting on the hill on Prokhorovka and generally camping behind everyone else looking for pot-shot opportunities.

 

First and foremost, on any (open) map, the very first thing I try to do is scout. Clearly there are maps that make this a more successful endeavour than others, and clearly I don't appear to be very good at it, but I TRY.


If you want to criticise at this point, know that recognising my own weakness in LTs, I actually only own three at tier VI to IX and I do at least have a positive WR in two of those. Whatever others I had, I sold after the recent changes. I do think that I would not play them at all were it not for missions.

 

But what do you think of the changes in both the tanks and the manner in which they are played? I mean: WG have nerfed the view range on TDs to make them more dependent on allies, and arty is wholy dependent on spotting from allies. Damaged allies that may not dare to brawl can still bring powerful guns to bear from a distance, but not if the LTs are behind them- or DEAD.

 

I am not looking for arguments, and criticise me all you want because I know that I am no LT scout player no matter how hard I try, but what do you all think about the state of LTs at the moment?



OreH75 #2 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:26 PM

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How I play lights in the current meta:

1) Make a passive or active spot at the beginning of the game, depending on the map and tanks..

2) Play carefully during mid-game, try to spot and/or (snipe) support where needed -> RELOCATE if necessary (minimap awareness) but do not take too many shots yourself

3) In the endgame use your speed and cammo to flank, clear up arties, hunt down a lone turretless TD etc etc

 


Edited by OreH75, 07 September 2018 - 01:27 PM.


BR33K1_PAWAH #3 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:36 PM

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View PostOreH75, on 07 September 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

How I play lights in the current meta:

1) Make a passive or active spot at the beginning of the game, depending on the map and tanks..

2) Play carefully during mid-game, try to spot and/or (snipe) support where needed -> RELOCATE if necessary (minimap awareness) but do not take too many shots yourself

3) In the endgame use your speed and cammo to flank, clear up arties, hunt down a lone turretless TD etc etc

 

 

This.

I would only add that when you are a top tier lt you are not in any way obliged to scout for ur team, but must decide for yourself what would be more effective in the current situation you daling with - to deal damage or to spot.



captainpigg #4 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:38 PM

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View PostOreH75, on 07 September 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

How I play lights in the current meta:

1) Make a passive or active spot at the beginning of the game, depending on the map and tanks..

2) Play carefully during mid-game, try to spot and/or (snipe) support where needed -> RELOCATE if necessary (minimap awareness) but do not take too many shots yourself

3) In the endgame use your speed and cammo to flank, clear up arties, hunt down a lone turretless TD etc etc

 

 

^^ To this I'll add, if on a city map, try to distract or irritate your opponents. You'll be amazed to see how often the enemy heavy will start ignoring your heavies to get a shot at you, giving your heavies free shots at them.

NoobySkooby #5 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:39 PM

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The way i play them is to just keep moving, hoping to do some spotting for the rest of your team, handy if there is arty on it and they are awake, and then go and hunt enemy arty i don't care about other tanks.

OreH75 #6 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:47 PM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 07 September 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

The way i play them is to just keep moving, hoping to do some spotting for the rest of your team, handy if there is arty on it and they are awake, and then go and hunt enemy arty i don't care about other tanks.

 

Don't listen to this guy ^^ he is a terrible light player.

NoobySkooby #7 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:54 PM

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View PostOreH75, on 07 September 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

 

Don't listen to this guy ^^ he is a terrible light player.

 

I absolutely agree:D

RockyRoller #8 Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:58 PM

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if you were passive spotting, and I mean nobody was firing at what you seen, and it does happen, all thats left is to go hunt, die, and get a better team.

vixu #9 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:00 PM

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OP. you are wrong on many points. 
 

Basically, LT has lost its "scout" status once the arty was re-purposed from damage dealing to stuns. Scouting is still valid on some very limited number of open maps. Problem is that even if you light enemies up, the capabilities of your team to deal damage to them is limited by LoS and distance. As a result, whenever LT tries to do a forward scouting, in many maps an enemy medium comes in and finishes you off. 

And in many maps you you will be spotted before you will spot a camping enemy.



WindSplitter1 #10 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:00 PM

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Because before, a single light tank was able to enter in a match without firing a single shot during the entire game and still contribute to his team; and finish as top by experience.

 

Now they have worse accuracy than heavy tanks, high pen drop off at range, reduced mobility (for LT standards and when compared to the past) so that even some mediums can keep up and the view range is comparable to that of an HT anyway.

 

To do damage, you need to get closer, as your shots will go all over the place and/or fail to pen if you don't.

 

Not that a LT should play like that, but that about answers your question. To some of us Scout MM didn't need any fixing and could actually be the reason why WG claims there are issues with the matchmaker, that could pick up a Tier V Light vehicle and distribute it across 3 tiers, as opposed to 2.



Flowtec_ #11 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:13 PM

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Brawling in LTs is so much fun. I like light tanks the most. Especially Tier 9 lights. MM for tier 9 is ok, you have cammo, speed, still a decent gun. Gameplay is much faster plus I love on some maps to distract enemy heavy tanks on heavy flank. 13 90 or 13 105 is the best for it. You just sneak in, unload your magazine, you see all enemy heavy tanks turning towards you and by that time you are gone while your heavy tanks can push easily. Flank won, game won. I am so focused when playing lights. Hoping WG adds more LT lines :-)

PowJay #12 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:17 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 September 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because before, a single light tank was able to enter in a match without firing a single shot during the entire game and still contribute to his team; and finish as top by experience.

 

Now they have worse accuracy than heavy tanks, high pen drop off at range, reduced mobility (for LT standards and when compared to the past) so that even some mediums can keep up and the view range is comparable to that of an HT anyway.

 

To do damage, you need to get closer, as your shots will go all over the place and/or fail to pen if you don't.

 

Not that a LT should play like that, but that about answers your question. To some of us Scout MM didn't need any fixing and could actually be the reason why WG claims there are issues with the matchmaker, that could pick up a Tier V Light vehicle and distribute it across 3 tiers, as opposed to 2.

 

Much of that answers the question about why they play at close range instead of shooting from a distance, but it doesn't answer the part about why there are three LTs on El Halluf north, probably getting in the way of allies, while the enemy have three scouts in the valley and your southern TDs are getting raped without targets.

 

If you want to camp, there are SPGs and many TDs. If you want to brawl there are HTs and tough meds. LTs were scouts and now I find them either camping or brawling while popular spots for enemy vehicles gathering (east side of Prok and Fisherman' for example) remain completely unspotted.

 

I know that the different classes, or vehicles don't have specific roles/playstyles, but LTs are supposed to scout while (admittedly) using speed to get out of trouble and relocate as necessary. They also have LT camo still, which is supposed to help with this role. A fat lot of use that is alongside the heavies or behind the TDs.



lassekille #13 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:23 PM

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Often they are also obsessed with going together. Nothing more meaningsless than the 3 lights on the team going together to brawl and die within 1 minute.

Enforcer1975 #14 Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:55 PM

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View Postlassekille, on 07 September 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Often they are also obsessed with going together. Nothing more meaningsless than the 3 lights on the team going together to brawl and die within 1 minute.

Many don't even have an effing plan. When i ask where you guys going? I go here... ( to the LTs ) 99 out of 101 games i get no answer and suddenly there is some bob who wants to go to the same spot as you do...many LTs are even more useless than a player eating crayons while playing arty. 



Flowtec_ #15 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:10 PM

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I am more angry about fact teammates shoot their own light tanks. The map this happens the most is Prokhorovka. When team thinks LT is not doing good job, players shoot the ally LT. Why? Never shoot an ally! Not even when he is blue! You are weakening your own team plus wasting time.

fighting_falcon93 #16 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:17 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 07 September 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

Why are LT players obsessed with brawling?

 

Because some players in this game can't do anything other than brawl. They brawl in their LTs, they brawl in their MTs, they brawl in their TDs, and if artillery would have had more HP, they would have brawled in their artillery aswell. These are the kind of players that when playing LTs they prefer to farm damage instead of silently spotting, because spotting will not give them fancy xvm colors. These are the kind of players that when playing TDs they prefer to drive around the corner and getting permatracked because in their mind anyone sniping is a useless camper scrub. These are the kind of players that when discussing how the different tank classes in WoT should be designed, think it's an awfull idea that different classes are supposed to fullfill different roles on the battlefield. These are the kind of players that become angry because their LT cannot penetrate the frontal armour of a heavy or super-heavy. These are the kind of players that doesn't play an actual team game about tanks, but rather a single player game where the goal is to farm as much damage as possible. These are the kind of players that feel offended by reading this reply.

14:22 Added after 5 minutes

View PostOreH75, on 07 September 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

How I play lights in the current meta:

1) Make a passive or active spot at the beginning of the game, depending on the map and tanks..

2) Play carefully during mid-game, try to spot and/or (snipe) support where needed -> RELOCATE if necessary (minimap awareness) but do not take too many shots yourself

3) In the endgame use your speed and cammo to flank, clear up arties, hunt down a lone turretless TD etc etc

 

+1 to this. In my opinion, this is the correct way to play a LT. And it doesn't even require any premium ammo.



cragarion #17 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:25 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 07 September 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

Let me start by saying that YES, I KNOW that I am not too good in LTs. Not that I am especially good in any tank. I do at least TRY to do what I can to do as much as I can to spot, damage and kill the enemies wherever I can. I am not always successful. However, there is one thing that I always try to do in LTs (those that have at least traditionally had scout MM) and that is SCOUT.


In the past, we had to endure the Pz38na on the way to the Tiger 1 and you would suddenly find yourself facing tier VIII tanks with a tier IV LT on your second or third day of playing. I can understand that this was a bit of a shock, as it was to me. Back then, it was not at all unusual to see a new (or total noob) player sitting at the back trying to snipe tier VIII heavies from a distance.


Two great changes to LTs seem to have brought about a total change in LT gameplay. These are full light-tank lines, and the introduction of normal MM with tier X LTs. This does, however, beg the question why- if LTs now go all the way to tier X- do players buy LTs and play them like TDs or HTs?

 

I have over 27% of my battles in TDs. Despite trying to pimp these out with commanders with Recon and Situational Awareness, and fitting binoculars, there are still times when I am going to be significantly reliant on allies for spotting. I can't say that I am impressed when I find two or three of our LTs brawling in the north on El Halluf, sitting on the hill on Prokhorovka and generally camping behind everyone else looking for pot-shot opportunities.

 

First and foremost, on any (open) map, the very first thing I try to do is scout. Clearly there are maps that make this a more successful endeavour than others, and clearly I don't appear to be very good at it, but I TRY.


If you want to criticise at this point, know that recognising my own weakness in LTs, I actually only own three at tier VI to IX and I do at least have a positive WR in two of those. Whatever others I had, I sold after the recent changes. I do think that I would not play them at all were it not for missions.

 

But what do you think of the changes in both the tanks and the manner in which they are played? I mean: WG have nerfed the view range on TDs to make them more dependent on allies, and arty is wholy dependent on spotting from allies. Damaged allies that may not dare to brawl can still bring powerful guns to bear from a distance, but not if the LTs are behind them- or DEAD.

 

I am not looking for arguments, and criticise me all you want because I know that I am no LT scout player no matter how hard I try, but what do you all think about the state of LTs at the moment?

 

Because a few years ago WG nerfed the rewards for spotting damage, so light tanks now get more xp for fighting than they did for spotting.

Enforcer1975 #18 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:30 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 07 September 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

 

Because some players in this game can't do anything other than brawl.

Buddy told me about a player who played his arty as tanks and basically had the same playstyle in every tank and was cursing how crap they were to play.....



Mimos_A #19 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:30 PM

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The light tank changes have changed playing lights quite a bit. Especially when you're top tier your gun is simply too good on most maps to not use it. Not that I brawl a lot in lights, but on many maps beyond the initial intel run your scouting role doesn't get you very far. Combine that with the fact that you can do amazing amounts of spotting damage and get eff-all for it (it's not very motivating to get multiple times the assist damage than the top damage dealer and still end up somewhere halfway on the list by xp...), and it's more like you're playing a very fragile fast medium with a bit better camo. On most maps I just end up getting the initial spots, hope my team shoots something, hide for a bit, look for distracted enemies to pump some shots in and keep an eye open for any area that lacks vision. If there's no such place happening I still have HP and a gun I can help the team with. I hardly even really "brawl" in lights as they don't really have the dpm, hp and gun for it, but I also don't shy away from it if I think the game needs it.

Edited by Mimos_A, 07 September 2018 - 03:32 PM.


OreH75 #20 Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:31 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 07 September 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

Much of that answers the question about why they play at close range instead of shooting from a distance, but it doesn't answer the part about why there are three LTs on El Halluf north, probably getting in the way of allies, while the enemy have three scouts in the valley and your southern TDs are getting raped without targets.

 

If you want to camp, there are SPGs and many TDs. If you want to brawl there are HTs and tough meds. LTs were scouts and now I find them either camping or brawling while popular spots for enemy vehicles gathering (east side of Prok and Fisherman' for example) remain completely unspotted.

 

I know that the different classes, or vehicles don't have specific roles/playstyles, but LTs are supposed to scout while (admittedly) using speed to get out of trouble and relocate as necessary. They also have LT camo still, which is supposed to help with this role. A fat lot of use that is alongside the heavies or behind the TDs.

 

I never go down on El Halluf in a light tank, that means i have to rely on donkey's in TD's that cannot hit the side of a barn (from the inside)  while I am being rushed by enemy lights and meds...no thank you. I rather stay alive as long as possible and contribute in the endgame...unless you get TK'ed by a donkey that tells you to go spot...because he thinks that is what LT's should do: rush enemy base, spot 10 tanks and then die...

 



 


Edited by OreH75, 07 September 2018 - 03:32 PM.





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