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MORE fast light tanks! - no no NO!

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Das__Licht #1 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:13 AM

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I just read that there is a new faster than fast light tank on the way - the Panhard.

Already in the game there are swarms of fast tanks and the last thing we need is more - especially one with insane speed and camo rating -  and the current ones are hard enough to hit as it is.

Moving fast at long range is hard to hit them and getting in closer spots and you die - or the light just buzzes round picking you apart.

Playing tank destroyers is becoming a nightmare when combined with the designed terrain and obstacles to assist lights and frustrate tank destroyers.

I urge a rethink on this crazy speed increase - it is bad as it is without making it worse.



Desyatnik_Pansy #2 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:16 AM

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I'm sorry, what?

Balc0ra #3 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:19 AM

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You do know he trades speeds for a worse pen, worse dpm, worse camo, and way worse view range. It's not a light. It's meant for active spotting at closer range. And like the Swedish TD's, he has to change mode. One gives speed. The other gives traverse. He can't have both. That and it's wheeled. It has to be in motion to turn. So it won't be good on corridor maps or urban maps as well as other lights. 

 

So I'm not too sure how effective they will be, vs what most think they will be. But let's wait and see. They are not on live yet. Nor are anything on them final. 



PervyPastryPuffer #4 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:28 AM

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Those things will die in two shots from most tanks they meet, and they have the viewrange of a 90-year-old.

 

I'm not too concerned about their speed, honestly...



snowlywhite #5 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:36 AM

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View PostDas__Licht, on 12 September 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

I just read that there is a new faster than fast light tank on the way - the Panhard.

Already in the game there are swarms of fast tanks and the last thing we need is more - especially one with insane speed and camo rating -  and the current ones are hard enough to hit as it is.

Moving fast at long range is hard to hit them and getting in closer spots and you die - or the light just buzzes round picking you apart.

Playing tank destroyers is becoming a nightmare when combined with the designed terrain and obstacles to assist lights and frustrate tank destroyers.

I urge a rethink on this crazy speed increase - it is bad as it is without making it worse.

 

you're joking, right?

Desyatnik_Pansy #6 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:40 AM

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View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 12 September 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

Those things will die in two shots from most tanks they meet, and they have the viewrange of a 90-year-old.

 

Just to give a bit more of a description to this. 310m is like Tier II Viewrange. Using one such vehicle with 310m viewrange and throwing on:

-Vents, Optics, BiA, Recon, Sit. Awareness: 373m

-Vents, Optics, BiA, Recon, Sit. Awareness, Strong Coffee: 389m

-Vents, Binocs (so only active when stationary), BiA, Recon, Sit. Awareness: 424m

-Vents, Binocs (so only active when stationary), BiA, Recon, Sit. Awareness, Strong Coffee: 442m

 

Even with everything I can think of to boost viewrange (ignoring Bond equipment and the Bond reserves or whatever mind you), it cannot reach maximum viewrange. But hey, the speed right? :P



snowlywhite #7 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:48 AM

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yeah, it's a dude that has a

ton of battles in a tier 2 td and plays only tds apparently...

 

let him be


Edited by snowlywhite, 12 September 2018 - 12:51 AM.


JocMeister #8 Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:20 AM

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View PostDas__Licht, on 12 September 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

I just read that there is a new faster than fast light tank on the way - the Panhard.

Already in the game there are swarms of fast tanks and the last thing we need is more - especially one with insane speed and camo rating -  and the current ones are hard enough to hit as it is.

Moving fast at long range is hard to hit them and getting in closer spots and you die - or the light just buzzes round picking you apart.

Playing tank destroyers is becoming a nightmare when combined with the designed terrain and obstacles to assist lights and frustrate tank destroyers.

I urge a rethink on this crazy speed increase - it is bad as it is without making it worse.

 

Play real tanks instead of slow, low tier, non turreted TDs and you dont have to worry about it.

 



Enforcer1975 #9 Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:54 AM

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Sacrificing firepower and armor for speed and camo also has a downward limit. At a certain point it doesn't make sense anymore because there are too many downsides.

Simeon85 #10 Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:35 AM

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I thought we'd see a few threads like these, players who hardly ever play lights, who then get out played by them, and they then base their assessment of the whole class on a handful of engagements where they get beaten by a better player.

 

OP plays almost exclusively turretless TDs, so no surprise really someone like him is going to think these things are going to be OP. He gets circled and beaten by a better player and his ignorance makes them think they are too good.

 

I am expecting we'll see a few threads from heavy players as well.

 

No doubt like the tier 10 lights these things will get nerfed into complete uselessness before release because of whines from players like the OP who expect their vehicles to be invulnerable and idiot proof. 

 

View PostDas__Licht, on 12 September 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

I just read that there is a new faster than fast light tank on the way - the Panhard.

Already in the game there are swarms of fast tanks and the last thing we need is more - especially one with insane speed and camo rating -  and the current ones are hard enough to hit as it is.

Moving fast at long range is hard to hit them and getting in closer spots and you die - or the light just buzzes round picking you apart.

Playing tank destroyers is becoming a nightmare when combined with the designed terrain and obstacles to assist lights and frustrate tank destroyers.

I urge a rethink on this crazy speed increase - it is bad as it is without making it worse.

 

 

Rock, paper, scissors balancing basically, TDs are generally countered by lights, especially turretless TDs who let lights get around them, that is balance, position yourself correctly with team in support and it's no issue.

 

It's basically a learn to play issue, these tanks have lots of disadvantages compared to your TDs, if they get close enough to get around and circle you then they deserve to kill you and they have outplayed you, that is how the game works.

 

Also have to LOL @

 

Block Quote

 Playing tank destroyers is becoming a nightmare when combined with the designed terrain and obstacles to assist lights and frustrate tank destroyers.

 

Yeh all those red line and base camping spots that have elevation, concealment in the form of broken new bushes, hard cover and look out over open terrain on every approach, yeh they massively favour lights :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 



Homer_J #11 Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:43 AM

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WG did this before.  It was their first shot at cutting down arty numbers.  They brought in stupidly fast light tanks like the T-50-2.

 

They know that plenty of noobs will just press R twice and just steer round rocks before dying spectacularly.

 

They should put them in a special queue where they get insta dropped into already running battles, save having to waste all that time with the countdown.  So three minutes in, you've lost your scouts already, and you get reinforcements.



TungstenHitman #12 Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:43 AM

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There's definitely the potential for these tanks to be really very annoying and just one more addition which takes the arcade style game into ridiculous levels of stupidity and I dare say, to the point that there is simply no fun in playing the ACTUAL tanks anymore. WG shouldn't lose touch with what this game fundamentally is, a tank game. It's not so much how they perform alone, they have bad view range, kinda doesn't matter when you have 100kph, a Buzz Lightyear turbo boost that's impossible for slower tanks to shoot and can't even fokking get tracked much but the real question is how they interact with other tank classes on their team. For example, they can't see far, this is one of their balancing factors, well, does that even matter if you have a teammate with a light tank that can? The light can spot for this rally car who in turn can plan his unseen 100koh boost button charge attack so some of the suggested "balancing" factors are already non-applicable imo, only ever a factor in 1 vs 1 and really situation. Less hp? Less armor? We already have delicate snowflakes like T71 and AMX, these are not balancing factors and the mentioned tanks prove that, which are broken if not OP, so add to that a tank that is much faster than them and now can't be tracked first time and... can go in reverse as fast as it can forwards. 

 

Too early to say, it's all an unknown at this point but the videos don't send the right messages of anything other than another dumb broken class like arty but just the opposite end of the scale. The vids highlight their speed, ability to ramp and drift off rocky locations that would track conventional tanks and highlights how they can circle and kill bigger slower tanks with great efficiency, better than even light tanks once they are in close quarters, of which they can easily achieve with that speed and boost. It's a tank game, it's called world of tanks, I log in to play tanks yet, this company simply MUST go out of it's way to remove fun from playing the actual tanks of this game. Add artillery, ya that's very smart and now add wheeled vehicles, another non-tank class that will work much the same as artillery in terms of just annoying the f** out of players using the actual tanks of this game just in a very different way. While arty slap tanks from the redline, these annoying little runts will be in your face 24/7 constantly spotting, emptying a clip drive by style and zipping in and around players just trying bloody play a game of tanks vs tanks, all of which will also have the added bonus of getting shot by arty even more often and sooner. I don't know.. I don't think it's a good idea tbh. Sort out the bs in this game first.



Simeon85 #13 Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:04 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 September 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

 Less hp? Less armor? We already have delicate snowflakes like T71 and AMX, these are not balancing factors and the mentioned tanks prove that, which are broken if not OP, so add to that a tank that is much faster than them and now can't be tracked first time and... can go in reverse as fast as it can forwards. 

 

 

Neither of those tanks are broken or OP, they are terrible if played badly and having no armour or HP in the current meta is a massive disadvantage.

 

Some of the strongest tanks in the game are pretty slow or downright pedestrian, Japanese Heavies, Maus, T95, Tortoise, Super Conqueror, Vk 1001 P etc. most of those tanks barely go 25-30kph, but they are all OP or borderline OP. 

 

As for the 'tanks' thing, pretty irrelevant argument when SPGs are in the game, and that is not just arty, it applies to most TDs, which are SPGs not really tanks. These are armoured vehicles with anti-tank level weapons, the only real difference is they have wheels not tracks. 

 

You just sound like all the terrible heavy tank players, who WG has pandered to for far too long too the detriment of the game.

 

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 around players just trying bloody play a game of tanks vs tanks

 

Adapt, overcome and learn.  Not everyone wants to just brawl at 100m with people in front of us like mindless drones. 

 

Rock, paper, scissors balancing, these tanks will have plenty of drawbacks, if you let one get close and circle you, well you have been outplayed, suck it up and learn to be better rather than moaning about the vehicle class which clearly has plenty of drawbacks, plenty of ways to counter it and outplay it yourself using the strengths of your vehicle. 

 

That is how the game should work, for far too long IMO WG have pandered to the lowest common denominator to take away player choices and player skill as an impact on battles, dumb corridor maps that you fight frontally at 100m or less where players don't have to think about being flanked or have any situational awareness, dumb armoured tanks that have no weakspots and are close to immune frontally,  nerfing of lights so they can't use their strengths at longer ranges to harm tanks by giving them terrible pen and accuracy. Dumb base camping spots that have everything you need in concealment, cover and elevation so TD players are not challenged to actually find spots to fire from and use their W key, and again have some awareness of what is going on around them. And of course dumb arty if even those easy mode options are too challenging.

 

These new vehicles look like they will reward smart, aware players who will seek out lone targets, find gaps in the lines, read the map etc. and will reward skilled play which IMO can only be a good thing. 



TungstenHitman #14 Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:43 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 12 September 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

 

Neither of those tanks are broken or OP, they are terrible if played badly and having no armour or HP in the current meta is a massive disadvantage.

 

Some of the strongest tanks in the game are pretty slow or downright pedestrian, Japanese Heavies, Maus, T95, Tortoise, Super Conqueror, Vk 1001 P etc. most of those tanks barely go 25-30kph, but they are all OP or borderline OP. 

 

As for the 'tanks' thing, pretty irrelevant argument when SPGs are in the game, and that is not just arty, it applies to most TDs, which are SPGs not really tanks. These are armoured vehicles with anti-tank level weapons, the only real difference is they have wheels not tracks. 

 

You just sound like all the terrible heavy tank players, who WG has pandered to for far too long too the detriment of the game.

 

 

Adapt, overcome and learn.  Not everyone wants to just brawl at 100m with people in front of us like mindless drones. 

 

Rock, paper, scissors balancing, these tanks will have plenty of drawbacks, if you let one get close and circle you, well you have been outplayed, suck it up and learn to be better rather than moaning about the vehicle class which clearly has plenty of drawbacks, plenty of ways to counter it and outplay it yourself using the strengths of your vehicle. 

 

That is how the game should work, for far too long IMO WG have pandered to the lowest common denominator to take away player choices and player skill as an impact on battles, dumb corridor maps that you fight frontally at 100m or less where players don't have to think about being flanked or have any situational awareness, dumb armoured tanks that have no weakspots and are close to immune frontally,  nerfing of lights so they can't use their strengths at longer ranges to harm tanks by giving them terrible pen and accuracy. Dumb base camping spots that have everything you need in concealment, cover and elevation so TD players are not challenged to actually find spots to fire from and use their W key, and again have some awareness of what is going on around them. And of course dumb arty if even those easy mode options are too challenging.

 

These new vehicles look like they will reward smart, aware players who will seek out lone targets, find gaps in the lines, read the map etc. and will reward skilled play which IMO can only be a good thing. 

 

Stupid comment, comparison, analysis, assessment and assumptions, in it's entirety. Grade A bs neither you or I believe so I really don't get why players make those comments they know to be untrue and wouldn't agree with themselves.

 

There's too much in that to even bother, you got outplayed because a tank that can hit 100kph with a boost got too close? stupid. Players that play heavy tanks moan because they can't play heavy tanks? Because there is a skill to not be spotted and artied when using a large zero camo tank brawling hull down on an open map like Malinovka etc? A T71 is balanced because of bad players that don't know how to use them? So basically every tank is balanced by that logic... ok. The game conforms to some sort of "Rock paper scissors" really? and what does arty have balancing them? Defender? Bobject? Type5 etc etc etc. Don't say things you don't believe yourself or know to be untrue, it just devalues any other comments you ever make.

 

The game is rotten and unbalanced in many ways, you can accept it or uninstall, that's the short of it. But you can also voice opinion at things that you see as unfair etc, as everyone should, be it in a game, be it in life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 12 September 2018 - 10:53 AM.


malachi6 #15 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:22 AM

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Wow 8k battles in tier 2 and complains the game is going to club him?  No irony there at all. 

 

As to making assumptions about vehicles and mechanics not yet seen by anything other than devs?  Hmm.  How to go into their introduction with preconceived ideas.  And people wonder why this game is full of conspiracies.



signal11th #16 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:27 AM

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humm I might be missing something here,  can someone explain "active spotting" so it's a tank that has dodgy mobility, dodgy view range so what's this got to do with "active spotting" take a med and actively spot already,.. why is this new thing a thing, fix the effing game ffs instead of these new things that don;t actually make any sense. How are you actively going to spot a corridor against tanks that have better view range than you do...

Edited by signal11th, 12 September 2018 - 11:28 AM.


Simeon85 #17 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:34 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 September 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

 

Stupid comment, comparison, analysis, assessment and assumptions, in it's entirety. Grade A bs neither you or I believe so I really don't get why players make those comments they know to be untrue and wouldn't agree with themselves.

 

There's too much in that to even bother, you got outplayed because a tank that can hit 100kph with a boost got too close? stupid. Players that play heavy tanks moan because they can't play heavy tanks? Because there is a skill to not be spotted and artied when using a large zero camo tank brawling hull down on an open map like Malinovka etc? A T71 is balanced because of bad players that don't know how to use them? So basically every tank is balanced by that logic... ok. The game conforms to some sort of "Rock paper scissors" really? and what does arty have balancing them? Defender? Bobject? Type5 etc etc etc. Don't say things you don't believe yourself or know to be untrue, it just devalues any other comments you ever make.

 

The game is rotten and unbalanced in many ways, you can accept it or uninstall, that's the short of it. But you can also voice opinion at things that you see as unfair etc, as everyone should, be it in a game, be it in life.

 

 

What a rubbish response. 

 

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 you got outplayed because a tank that can hit 100kph with a boost got too close? stupid

 

No your comment is stupid, that is a strength of a tank being used against the weakness of another tank, that is getting outplayed.  Use awareness, positioning, terrain etc. and you counter it. 

 

RU251 used to go 80kph, never saw any complaints about that. 

 

Block Quote

 Players that play heavy tanks moan because they can't play heavy tanks? Because there is a skill to not be spotted and artied when using a large zero camo tank brawling hull down on an open map like Malinovka etc

 

One off scenario means what exactly? Malinovka is one map out of what 40? What about all the other maps that massively favour heavy tanks? Loads of people moan about heavy tanks and WG panders to them, Type 5 being an example of that.

 

Block Quote

 A T71 is balanced because of bad players that don't know how to use them?

 

Reading is hard, my literal first line says - 'having no armour or HP in the current meta is a massive disadvantage.' And yes tank that need to skill to get the best out of are generally well balanced, look at the Bat Chat for example.

 

You claimed these tanks are OP and broken, yet have shown nothing to back that up, you just sound like most whiners who complain when they get outplayed.

 

Go play a T71 on Abbey or Ensk with it's 840 hit points, no armour, 150 alpha, 145 pen and some of the worst premium rounds in the game that are also some of the most expensive, tell me how well you do against O-Nis, IS's T29s etc. after you are forced into front on corridor brawls where a lot of the stuff you face can one/two shot you. 

 

Then tell me how those factors are not balancing. 

 

Pretty much 95% of the playerbase will do better in something like an O-Ni or IS than they ever would in a T71, so on what planet is the T71 a problem? 

 

Block Quote

 The game conforms to some sort of "Rock paper scissors" really? and what does arty have balancing them? Defender? Bobject? Type5 etc etc etc.

 

Those are OP tanks, doesn't have much relevance to the comments you made or wheeled vehicles, you claimed they would be broken or OP but said nothing to back that up.

 

Those tanks are examples of exactly what I am talking about, no real weaknesses, too strong and generally idiot proof, pretty much the exact opposite of what the wheeled vehicles look like they are going to be. 

 

You claimed no armour and low hit points is not a balancing factor, aside with regards to arty that comment is complete nonsense and untrue. 

 

Arty has no real counter I'll agree with that, but no idea how that has relevance to tanks that clearly will need to be in the open getting shot at and taking risks to get the best out of them. 

 

Fast meds and lights have always countered slow heavies and TDs wit their ability to circle and get around them in 1v1s, hardly like it makes those tanks weak when most of those TDs and heavies can one/two those lights and are way better against them in more static engagements at medium ranges. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 12 September 2018 - 11:38 AM.


TungstenHitman #18 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:37 AM

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View Postsignal11th, on 12 September 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

humm I might be missing something here,  can someone explain "active spotting" so it's a tank that has dodgy mobility, dodgy view range so what's this got to do with "active spotting" take a med and actively spot already,.. why is this new thing a thing, fix the effing game ffs instead of these new things that don;t actually make any sense. How are you actively going to spot a corridor against tanks that have better view range than you do...

 

Active as in, spotting through the act of racing around the map 100kph and knowingly putting your tank in full view of enemy tanks so you yourself can get spots vs Passive that implies you are going to try spot enemy tanks without actually being spotted yourself, like camping bush and approaching with hills objects breaking line of sight etc. I'm not complaining about these tanks I haven't seen them perform yet obviously but from the vids, and I'll attach the newer one. The emphasis is placed on their ability to race around at incredible speeds with some sort of boost mechanism in place and race around close to enemy tanks with the ability to do that. Also, so far as the "dodgy mobility" in the video I just don't see that since it is highlighted how they can drift and ramp and drop into river beds without any problems, maneuvers that would otherwise de-track a conventional light tank. I'm just saying there is great potential there for a REALLY annoying additive to an already broken game that walks a dangerous line as it is.

 



TungstenHitman #19 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 12 September 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

What a rubbish response.  etc

 

No your argument points are all taking situational scenarios to make your points valid rather than comparing tanks in regards to like for like with their same tier alternatives. You are saying players are simply getting outplayed because they don't know how to counter rather than the reality facts which we all know and experience in our WoT sessions. One tank being OP on one map but not so good on another is not really applicable when the underlying fact is that compared to other tanks of its class, it is much superior in many ways, this should be the only points of concern, not so much if it wins big on this map or fails big on another map. Type5 class of tanks are OP frontal armored and they have many drawbacks but compared to other relatively slow heavies, they generally have many strong points than the "balancing" failings they have and certainly not as balanced or anything close when compared to other similar tanks that can get HEAT penned through turret cheeks or lower plates etc, while it can also wash away large amounts of hp with one unskilled, arseaimed wash from it's derp gun, so we can say overall the Type5 and the likes are OP tanks, certainly broken.

 

The T71, I have played it many times and also French of same tier. The fact they get owned on certain maps and such, is not a relative point. The tech tree, tier7 AMX is an excellent light tank, one of the best. But, when you hold the T71 next it, it becomes clear the T71 is OP. It carries way more ammo, has superior view range, it carries a 6 shell mag vs a 4 shell mag, reloads relative to its mag capacity yet each shell does more alpha than the AMX and so it can out gun, out see, out perform and 1 clip most tier7 tanks. This cannot be done by the excellent AMX that will also tend to run out of ammo. Therefore, we can say the T71 is OP for it's tier, regardless of how it performs on various maps. Like for like, the T71 is just OP, the Type5 is OP. Arty has no real counter and is broken. You can't both play to stay arty safe and also be an effective positive force in a battle, you just can't. So no, this game does NOT conform to some sort of rock paper scissors balance, some tanks, just get to be all 3. 



_Sensation_ #20 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:56 AM

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Does it matter? When driving full speed in my lights bobs always hit me. Speed doesnt matter if ppl use aimbots




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