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Is there a link between love/hate for artillery and skill? [improved]

arty spg artillery clickers love hate

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Poll: Is there a correlation between love/hate for arty and skill? (141 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Which option below fits you the most?

  1. I'm a beginning player and I HATE artillery. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. I'm a beginning player and I LOVE artillery. (2 votes [1.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.42%

  3. I'm an experienced player with a win rate below 50% and I HATE artillery. (5 votes [3.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.55%

  4. I'm an experienced player with a win rate below 50% and I LOVE artillery. (8 votes [5.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.67%

  5. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 50% and I HATE artillery. (33 votes [23.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.40%

  6. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 50% and I LOVE artillery. (24 votes [17.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.02%

  7. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 55% and I HATE artillery. (36 votes [25.53%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.53%

  8. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 55% and I LOVE artillery. (17 votes [12.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.06%

  9. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 60% and I HATE artillery. (11 votes [7.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.80%

  10. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 60% and I LOVE artillery. (5 votes [3.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.55%

Vote Hide poll

Cheezix #1 Posted 18 September 2018 - 10:06 AM

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This poll is to see if there might be a correlation between skill and love or hate for artillery.

 

My hypothesis is that skilled players hate artillery more often than not and that less skilled players love artillery more often than not.

 

At first this was a poll-only topic, because discussions about artillery already have their place in The Big SPG Discussion Thread. But I changed to open for comments since it can be useful to specifically talk about the outcome of this little test.

 

Voting is public to keep it open and honest and I have already spotted four trolls who voted for option "I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 60% and I LOVE artillery." while having a way lower win rate.

 

The results so far are kind of what I expected: Much more higher skilled players hate arty than love it.

 

To proceed further in my little research I have scrolled through many pages of TheBig SPG Discussion Thread to see for myself what opinion is linked to what kind of win rate. I took win rate, because it is one of the best parameters for determining player skill, thereby ignoring obvious reroll accounts and beginners with under 5k battles. This keeps the statistics as clear and correct as possible. I have placed a hundred players into a spreadsheet and sorted them in two categories:

 

  1. Players that are PRO arty, which are among other things recognized by arguments for buffing arty, as well as coming with counter arguments towards players who obviously dislike arty.
  2. Players that are AGAINST arty who are really easy to spot, because often they simply post only a few messages including something like "remove arty from the game".

 

Though sometimes it was not clear if someone was for or against arty, since they gave arguments for both sides or simply were not clear in their messages. In those cases I decided to exclude them from the list.

 

Below is the complete overview (unfortunately I could not get it bigger on my screen to take a full screenshot). If you want to double check I can send you the list in pdf format.

 

The left column is all the 100 players I analyzed combined. The middle column is all players who are against arty and the right column contains all the players that are pro arty.

The black row at the bottom of each column is the average win rate of the players.

 


RESULTS:

Average win rate of players (100 players) who discuss artillery = 53.1 %

Average win rate of players (62 players) who are AGAINST artillery = 54.2 %

Average win rate of players (38 players) who are PRO artillery = 51.4 %

 

Conclusion:

My hypothesis is hereby confirmed. Higher skilled players are often less likely to accept artillery as part of the game. They either want it removed or nerfed or restricted to just 1 or 2 arties per team. This while lower skilled players are often less worried by artillery for reasons that can only be speculative beyond this point.

 

A strange thing I noticed when scrolling through the forum pages is the fact that there are more players in the thread against arty, but the majority of messages came from the same pro arty players page after page. There seems to be an urge to justify the liking for artillery. Also a few individuals (I won't name names) were not even talking about the subject most of the time, but were just replying messages without any constructive arguments. I guess some just live on the forums to stir up some trouble and are never really interested in a good debate, which in my opinion is kind of sad.

If you came all the way down here and read everything I hereby thank you and say well done! :great:

 


Edited by Cheezix, 05 October 2018 - 01:44 PM.
Use of red


jabster #2 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:09 PM

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There was a poll done several years ago showing the same thing. I’m not sure why it should be any different now or indeed why it makes any real difference that it’s true.

Cheezix #3 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:12 PM

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View Postjabster, on 04 October 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

There was a poll done several years ago showing the same thing. I’m not sure why it should be any different now or indeed why it makes any real difference that it’s true.

 

I am not aware of all the polls created in the past several years and I am pretty sure most people on the forums today are not aware of it or have forgotten about it.

 

To me this is important, because I think it is strange that lower skilled players should have a distinct advantage over all other players. I can't think of any competitive online multiplayer that rewards players for not being really good at the game.



jabster #4 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

 

I am not aware of all the polls created in the past several years and I am pretty sure most people on the forums today are not aware of it or have forgotten about it.

 

To me this is important, because I think it is strange that lower skilled players should have a distinct advantage over all other players. I can't think of any competitive online multiplayer that rewards players for not being really good at the game.

 

You don’t think it’s strange that in a game that is supposed to have a mass market appeal (a broad range of skill levels) that there’s a class that may be more to suitable, on average, to lower skilled players. Would you find it strange, if for example there was a class that was more appealing to higher skilled players?

mpf1959 #5 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:22 PM

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And, of course, it can be taken for granted that all will answer honestly! :trollface:

Cheezix #6 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:26 PM

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View Postjabster, on 04 October 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

You don’t think it’s strange that in a game that is supposed to have a mass market appeal (a broad range of skill levels) that there’s a class that may be more to suitable, on average, to lower skilled players. Would you find it strange, if for example there was a class that was more appealing to higher skilled players?

 

I understand the marketing point of view, but I still disagree with the role arty has since the beginning of World of Tanks. I have rather lots of noob friendly tanks that are more suitable for lower skilled players than an entire class that does not have to be part of the fight, but still gets the chance of being fully rewarded.

 

Also I am not for removing arty completely from the game, but it would be great if they would add at least something to counter it.


Edited by Cheezix, 04 October 2018 - 01:33 PM.


jabster #7 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:30 PM

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

I understand the marketing point of view, but I still disagree with the role arty has since the beginning of World of Tanks. I have rather lots of noob friendly tanks that are more suitable for lower skilled players than an entire class that does not have to be part of the fight, but still gets the chance of being fully rewarded. Also I am not for removing arty completely from the game, but it would be great if they would add at least something to counter it.

 

Having something to counter it, what’s that got to do with lower skilled players prefering arty more than higher skilled players. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. 

Cheezix #8 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:32 PM

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View Postjabster, on 04 October 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

 

Having something to counter it, what’s that got to do with lower skilled players prefering arty more than higher skilled players. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. 

 

I made two separate points. The first was a reaction to your comment. The second point started with "Also", which means it is something that doesn't necessarily has to be related to the first point.  

Edited by Cheezix, 04 October 2018 - 01:32 PM.


jabster #9 Posted 04 October 2018 - 01:53 PM

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

I made two separate points. The first was a reaction to your comment. The second point started with "Also", which means it is something that doesn't necessarily has to be related to the first point.  

 

So why not just stick to the point under discussion then or am I expect to respond to every slightly related issue you raise. Is there a class that appeals, on average, to lesser skilled players. What problem do you find with that?



Cheezix #10 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:04 PM

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View Postjabster, on 04 October 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

 

So why not just stick to the point under discussion then or am I expect to respond to every slightly related issue you raise. Is there a class that appeals, on average, to lesser skilled players. What problem do you find with that?

 

It was just a side note to tell you where exactly I stand towards arty. Lots of arty haters want it to be removed, but for me this isn't really necessary.

The classes already have a difference in being suitable for different kind of skill levels:

 

  • Tank Destroyers: easiest to play for lower skilled players: just find an ambush location and try to hit enemy tanks.
  • Heavy Tanks: forgiving to play for below average players because the armor and hp allows you to make a few mistakes and survive.
  • Medium tanks: good for average players, because they have well rounded characteristics.
  • Light/Scout Tanks: most unforgivable class to play and usually only above average players do well in them. 

 

The only class that doesn't fit is:

 

  • Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to do well in. Just click.

Edited by Cheezix, 04 October 2018 - 02:06 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #11 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:12 PM

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This was explored way back in 2014 on the NA server

 

f3fh54.png

 

http://forum.worldof...firmed-but-why/

 

It really shouldn't be a surprise that for the majority of people artillery is an easy route into the game and easy to play. Who cares if you actually support your team, or get above 50% winrate? You're getting to blow something up once in a while.

 

Given the people you blow up are not going to be in artillery, and artillery at high tiers is a net credit loser, so good players will generally avoid it for many reasons it's not a great leap to think that good players won't like artillery in general.



_Discontinued_ #12 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:14 PM

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I lied

Cheezix #13 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:16 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 04 October 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

This was explored way back in 2014 on the NA server

 

-snip-

 

http://forum.worldof...firmed-but-why/

 

It really shouldn't be a surprise that for the majority of people artillery is an easy route into the game and easy to play. Who cares if you actually support your team, or get above 50% winrate? You're getting to blow something up once in a while.

 

Given the people you blow up are not going to be in artillery, and artillery at high tiers is a net credit loser, so good players will generally avoid it for many reasons it's not a great leap to think that good players won't like artillery in general.

 

Nice chart! Since I never visit NA forums I was not aware of this. I wonder how they gathered this data. Was it done by a poll or some statistics website? Nevermind: reading the post now ;)


Edited by Jbnn, 04 October 2018 - 04:21 PM.
Use of red


jabster #14 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

 

It was just a side note to tell you where exactly I stand towards arty. Lots of arty haters want it to be removed, but for me this isn't really necessary.

The classes already have a difference in being suitable for different kind of skill levels:

 

  • Tank Destroyers: easiest to play for lower skilled players: just find an ambush location and try to hit enemy tanks.
  • Heavy Tanks: forgiving to play for below average players because the armor and hp allows you to make a few mistakes and survive.
  • Medium tanks: good for average players, because they have well rounded characteristics.
  • Light/Scout Tanks: most unforgivable class to play and usually only above average players do well in them. 

 

The only class that doesn't fit is:

 

  • Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to do well in. Just click.

 

In that case just post your thoughts in the pinned SPG thread.

Cheezix #15 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:30 PM

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View Postjabster, on 04 October 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

In that case just post your thoughts in the pinned SPG thread.

 

Good point as this thread is only meant for discussing my findings. But since someone from NA server already did all the work in a much more extensive manner there is not much need for discussing it any further.

 

I could have saved me some work, but at least I had fun doing it.


Edited by Cheezix, 04 October 2018 - 02:30 PM.


SaintMaddenus #16 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

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As an improving player I am not surprised at the results.   As I’ve stated before as I get better I notice the effects of stun more, How if I am active I get shot at more etc.  I get all these points.

 

I do feel there is a place for arty but it isn’t played well

 

Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to do well in. Just click.”

 

I disagree with this in one aspect.  I would change it to this.

 

Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to Have an Effect  on the game in. Just click.

 

Doing Artillery well means No team damage, supporting the team, relocating and others I have mentioned previously.  Most arty do NOT do this well.

 

The draw back of arty is that their effect is disproportional to their level for the skill level of the player…  (which I know means easy to play)  

My Tier 8 arty (which is where I have stopped at, but continue to play) Is able to have an effect on the game in T 10 nearly every battle.  

My T10 heavy doesn’t.  BUT that is solely as I lack skill in that tank at that level.

 

I get your arguments.  But I still like arty.     I want the amount of arty in the game to be reduced, but there is no skill tests placed in this game, maybe that comes under skill based MM but im not into that discussion.

 

I want arty to suffer greater penalties for drowning, team damage etc.   Arty is a Support vehicle but most play it as if it’s a main tank.   It is played wrong, if the penalties for playing it wrong were applied less idiots would play it.

 



LethalWalou #17 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:38 PM

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Why does it have to be narrow with love or hate. Why isn't there an option for a 57% who just doesn't care about arty. It's in the game, big deal... I don't hate people in real life either, I just don't care about some of them.

CenturionA1 #18 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 04 October 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Why does it have to be narrow with love or hate. Why isn't there an option for a 57% who just doesn't care about arty. It's in the game, big deal... I don't hate people in real life either, I just don't care about some of them.

 

Maybe the OP doesnt want to know about players that dont care about arty.

Cheezix #19 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:54 PM

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View PostSaintMaddenus, on 04 October 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to do well in. Just click.”

 

I disagree with this in one aspect.  I would change it to this.

 

Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to Have an Effect  on the game in. Just click.

 

Doing Artillery well means No team damage, supporting the team, relocating and others I have mentioned previously.  Most arty do NOT do this well.

 

The wife of a friend of mine didn't know anything about World of Tanks. She started to platoon with us and played at his second account and did really well in arty. Only basic instructions of how to aim with shift was enough for her to have great games. Zero skill was needed, so I have to disagree with you. She also tried a normal tank but just drove in random directions getting herself killed in the first minute of the game. :teethhappy:



LethalWalou #20 Posted 04 October 2018 - 02:56 PM

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View PostCenturionA1, on 04 October 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

 

Maybe the OP doesnt want to know about players that dont care about arty.

 

Such a great research it is then. Just exclude certain people from it and call it proof... This is simply a pointless thing to have tbh.





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