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Is there a link between love/hate for artillery and skill? [improved]

arty spg artillery clickers love hate

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Poll: Is there a correlation between love/hate for arty and skill? (143 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Which option below fits you the most?

  1. I'm a beginning player and I HATE artillery. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. I'm a beginning player and I LOVE artillery. (2 votes [1.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.40%

  3. I'm an experienced player with a win rate below 50% and I HATE artillery. (5 votes [3.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.50%

  4. Voted I'm an experienced player with a win rate below 50% and I LOVE artillery. (8 votes [5.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.59%

  5. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 50% and I HATE artillery. (34 votes [23.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.78%

  6. Voted I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 50% and I LOVE artillery. (24 votes [16.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.78%

  7. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 55% and I HATE artillery. (37 votes [25.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.87%

  8. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 55% and I LOVE artillery. (17 votes [11.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.89%

  9. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 60% and I HATE artillery. (11 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  10. I'm an experienced player with a win rate above 60% and I LOVE artillery. (5 votes [3.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.50%

Vote Hide poll

Cheezix #21 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:03 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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View PostLethalWalou, on 04 October 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

Such a great research it is then. Just exclude certain people from it and call it proof... This is simply a pointless thing to have tbh.

 

If you want to get relevant data from research you always exclude certain groups of people, because you want the results to be as specific as possible to be able to draw accurate conclusions from them.

 

Nobody is interested in general assumptions about the majority of people...


Edited by Cheezix, 04 October 2018 - 03:04 PM.


LethalWalou #22 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:38 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

If you want to get relevant data from research you always exclude certain groups of people, because you want the results to be as specific as possible to be able to draw accurate conclusions from them.

 

Nobody is interested in general assumptions about the majority of people...

 

You don't believe you are influencing the results by forcing people to choose from such narrow choices? If you gave the option to vote for ''i don't care'' you could exclude those people from the end results without influencing the voters. Also, make sure you check the votes as people seem to be just voting wrong on purpose, as in the one person saying they are 60+ WR and loves arty. But then again I believe you will check them, just a friendly reminder still. Personally I just don't see any value for this poll based on how it's been set up.



SaintMaddenus #23 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:44 PM

    Major

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I have no problem with excluding people with no interest.  Most medical research is done on age 25-35 right handed people, often white.

 

I bet the mrs was listening at first then stopped...  Arty Is easier to play I will not contend that.   She has time to listen between loading and act under your advice, which given your skill, I expect, was good.    after which in an "active" tank, didn't have time to listen to your instructions and you didn't have time to tell her either :)


 

This is something I learned when playing lights and mediums.  You don't get to see the Arty marking the target when face to face so arty should not expect you to back off.  Arty constantly clicking a target does not make it theirs especially when the team mate is face hugging.


 


 



Simeon85 #24 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:47 PM

    Brigadier

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Logically there would be one because -

 

1. Artillery helps low ability players contribute more, as the WR curves show, it's low risk/relatively high reward + simple mechanics make up for their lack of skills, knowledge and experience and generally means they are less burdensome on their team than they are in tanks. If something helps you play better you are more likely to be for it or at least less likely to complain about it. (Similar behaviour is seen with OP tanks where owners often defend these tanks or don't complain about them)

 

2. Low ability / low skilled players essentially fall into two camps or playstyles -

 

  • Those who yolo about, are reckless etc. they will be killed by everything, they will die a lot, they will often die early in games. This means arty is just another thing that might shoot them/kill them amongst other stuff so is not a particular concern and their short life span in games would tend to mean that they aren't hit very often by arty due to artillery's longer reloads.
  • Those who camp and are very passive, they of course will not get spotted very often and thus not shot by arty often, so again arty will not be seen as much of a problem to them as they hug the red line/base. Arty can't shoot what they can't see and these players are often the last to die on their teams and rarely get spotted early/mid game, so again their exposure to arty is going to be limited. 

 

3. The better you become, the better you are at mitigating risks and countering threats to you through your knowledge of the game, use of the game mechanics, use of your tank's strengths etc. Generally in any given scenario and presented with a threat against them a good player will have a way or potential way to beat those threats and kill those threats. As you got through this learning and mastering process you then begin to see that your options to counter arty are virtually none and your ability to mitigate risk against arty, whilst playing actively, are limited.

 

Basically you can outplay, counter and mitigate most risks through skill, knowledge and experience of the game and game mechanics, this is not true of arty and thus the better you get the more you resent the mechanic that beats you without needing to actually beat you

 

4. Better players tend to gravitate towards higher tiers where arties become more common and more difficult to avoid due to very large splash radii, whereas worse players tend to play more at middle and lower tiers. 



Homer_J #25 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:48 PM

    Field Marshal

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View PostCheezix, on 18 September 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

The left column is all the 100 players I analyzed combined.

 

 

The 100 players you cherry picked to suit your hypothesis?

 

Lots of flaws in your research, to start with using the big SPG thread where nobody who values their braincells goes.  Also using the forum where mostly whiners congregate anyway.

 

Also where is the "I'm an 85% win rate player having a streak of bad luck and I love arty" option?


Edited by Homer_J, 04 October 2018 - 03:50 PM.


SaintMaddenus #26 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:55 PM

    Major

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Also using the forum where mostly whiners congregate anyway

and dingers :)



Bexleyheath #27 Posted 04 October 2018 - 03:56 PM

    Staff Sergeant

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I used to think that people who played artillery were *edit . Then I joined the Dingers and found that it was way worse :ohmy:

 


Edited by Jbnn, 04 October 2018 - 04:32 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


Homer_J #28 Posted 04 October 2018 - 04:28 PM

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View PostSaintMaddenus, on 04 October 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

Also using the forum where mostly whiners congregate anyway

and dingers :)

 

Yup, that's going to invalidate any research.

Wintermute_1 #29 Posted 04 October 2018 - 04:47 PM

    Captain

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Not at tier 8 (last column average wn8)

 

 

Falls down a bit overall though ;)

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Wintermute_1, 04 October 2018 - 04:47 PM.


jugilismaani #30 Posted 04 October 2018 - 05:03 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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In my opinion arty is needed in some maps. I have many horrible memories of 0 arty battles in malinovka or some other open bush filled map. Everyone just stops in a bush at the 10 minute mark. No scouts remaining. No one dies during the next 10 minutes. Making the first move usually means the one who makes the move gets damaged. Without arty there is a good chance that not a single enemy will get damaged. Everyone who shoot you and get spotted just pull back behind the ridge. With arty it is worth it to spend 50% of your HP to make a small advance, get a few spots and lower enemy HP with arty. 

 

But then there are maps where there is absolutely no point in having them. Why have them on Ensk or Himmelsdorf? All they can achieve is annoyance in everyone. 

 

I voted I love arty because I mostly feel positive about it. I just adjust my playstyle accordingly. I have never experienced this "perma stun" phenomana. Usually if you get perma stunned that means the enemy does too, as you are probably yoloing them in some open map. And if they do not you are doing something wrong if you are fighting tanks who are arty-safe and you are not. 



Joggaman #31 Posted 04 October 2018 - 05:58 PM

    Lieutenant General

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View PostBexleyheath, on 04 October 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

I used to think that people who played artillery were *edit . Then I joined the Dingers and found that it was way worse :ohmy:

 

 

This is great! Exactly how I picture Pansen:B

Woody1999 #32 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:01 PM

    Lieutenant General

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View PostBexleyheath, on 04 October 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

I used to think that people who played artillery were *edit . Then I joined the Dingers and found that it was way worse :ohmy:

 

 

Don't be silly. Why would we ever play arty? Gold ammo is terrible on arty! :hiding:

kaneloon #33 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:04 PM

    Colonel

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This poll will only tell what WR have players answering a binary poll.

If they give an honest answer - not like me.

 



ObusMagic #34 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:11 PM

    Warrant Officer

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View PostLethalWalou, on 04 October 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

Such a great research it is then. Just exclude certain people from it and call it proof... This is simply a pointless thing to have tbh.

 

People who are ambivalent about arty would not really affect results 

Sfinski #35 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:22 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

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View PostEdweird, on 04 October 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

I lied

 

So did many more too. 

 

Cheezix, you have to check every voter if you want proper results. None of the over 60% arty lovers are not even over 55%. Sad plebs.



Homer_J #36 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:36 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 04 October 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

 

So did many more too. 

 

Cheezix, you have to check every voter if you want proper results. None of the over 60% arty lovers are not even over 55%. Sad plebs.

 

I'll have you know I'm way over 60%, you are just looking at the wrong numbers.


Edited by Homer_J, 04 October 2018 - 06:37 PM.


LethalWalou #37 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:42 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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View Postbaribal_80, on 04 October 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

 

People who are ambivalent about arty would not really affect results 

 

With not giving an option to answer it does affect as some feel the need to answer yes or no even if they don't really care too much. Now you are given options of either love or hate (100% agree or 100% disagree) and I bet there are a lot of players that don't like to get shot by arty but for example like to play it at times. What should those people answer then?

 

If there was an option to say ''i don't care'' those results could be straight away ignored without in the end having any affect on the other answers. What would it cost to have such option? Nothing, and it would simply give more realistic results.

17:43 Added after 1 minute

View PostHomer_J, on 04 October 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

 

I'll have you know I'm way over 60%, you are just looking at the wrong numbers.

 

over 60% accuracy? over 60% premium ammo shot? :P to be fair most likely both fit you as a dinger :D

Homer_J #38 Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:51 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 04 October 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

 

over 60% accuracy? over 60% premium ammo shot? :P to be fair most likely both fit you as a dinger :D

 

Over 60% proof to start with.

Blubba #39 Posted 04 October 2018 - 11:18 PM

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View PostCheezix, on 04 October 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

 

It was just a side note to tell you where exactly I stand towards arty. Lots of arty haters want it to be removed, but for me this isn't really necessary.

The classes already have a difference in being suitable for different kind of skill levels:

 

  • Tank Destroyers: easiest to play for lower skilled players: just find an ambush location and try to hit enemy tanks.
  • Heavy Tanks: forgiving to play for below average players because the armor and hp allows you to make a few mistakes and survive.
  • Medium tanks: good for average players, because they have well rounded characteristics.
  • Light/Scout Tanks: most unforgivable class to play and usually only above average players do well in them.

 

The only class that doesn't fit is:

 

  • Artillery: No skill or real knowledge of the game needed to do well in. Just click.

 

This seems reasonable I guess. I would point out though that as we are constantly being told, artillery plays by different rules (indirect/no counter/HE mechanism/splash etc), could it be that artillery isn't designed for a player to use so much as a counter to another player?

A kind of in game brake?

A leveller of fields as it were?

I don't know. Just putting it out there.

 

 


 

Just thought I'd add that some games I despise arty, some games I like it and some games, I am completely indifferent to it. Generally I dislike it when there are three of them or as unlikely as it sounds, I get focused. When I get hit by my own artillery, that's not the unit. That's the player or RNG..

I like it when it pulls off shots that support me. When I am spotting for it or when I am playing it so given all of that, I'm not sure I can vote in the questionnaire.


Edited by Blubba, 05 October 2018 - 09:04 AM.


monthey_ #40 Posted 04 October 2018 - 11:33 PM

    Warrant Officer

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Good post. It would be nice to see what the introduction of improved equipment has done to negate the 'nerfs' the SPG class received years ago. I have the feeling arties have become deadlier cause of higher rof and aim time improvement. 





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