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Scorpion G infestation, high alpha guns and two shots

so is this the same thing

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BonjiOrongji #21 Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:20 PM

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View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

It's op

 

actually it is not ... doesnt matter how often some salty ppl say that

Simeon85 #22 Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:23 PM

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Its not OP and not problematic IMO, wasn't really an issue with the Grille 15 either IMO, just something you had to be aware of. 

 

99% of these tanks camp anyway and the Skorp G is a big, easy to hit paper target with low HP and the alpha is not even that high for tier 8.

 

Never understood the Skorpion G whine, takes skill to use properly, and if people camp with it then it's not better than about 10 other TDs most of which either hit as hard or have way better camo and won't get spotted as often. 



Kommandant_Mia #23 Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:38 PM

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View PostBonjiOrongji, on 21 October 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

 

actually it is not ... doesnt matter how often some salty ppl say that

I own one and know it's op compared to many many others.  If you use the mobility and keep the gun singing,  this thing is brutal. Can't really say the tier 9 tech tree "version" is a tier better,  can you? 

 

And way to be selective. You cut out the two words and not the whole statement.  How was that salty?  Stop protecting your favorite toy, like a child.


Edited by Kommandant_Mia, 21 October 2018 - 06:43 PM.


Fawlty_Turrets #24 Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:42 PM

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View PostBeltalowda, on 21 October 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

I know there is a rental thingy going on and Scorpion G is the most or one of the most played tanks right now. The thing what I am interested in is, that high alpha guns on such a fast platform were problematic in the past, just remember the old Grille 15.

 

When you are driving LT at this tier you are often 2 shot kill for a Scorpion if it high rolls, if you are in a medium then it's three shots and you are dead. Many people hated old arty for it's ability to one shot tanks and this was the main reason why so many players hated this class. 

 

So why is WG adding the same thing over and over again ? It's not only a Scorpion, there has been an increase in derp and large caliber guns that can easily one shot a tank. To me going from 100 to 0 in my baby Bat when I get hit from Type 5 or tier X scout getting obliterated in one hit from a Shitbarn is the same thing like receiving a one shot from the old arty. 

 

  1. Is this the same thing ?
  2. What are your thoughts about it ?
  3. And at what point is too many Scorps running around enough for WG to remove them "temporarily" from the store like they did with E-25, because there was just too many of them ?

 

I dunno, it doesn't feel very problematic to me-the interesting rng it exhibits the majority of the time. I could make a minigame based on where the shell will deviate to or even if the shell will warp out of existence before it reaches it's target.

BonjiOrongji #25 Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:52 PM

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View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

I own one and know it's op compared to many many others.  If you use the mobility and keep the gun singing,  this thing is brutal.

 

 

doesnt matter how often you say this .. its not OP

View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

. Can't really say the tier 9 tech tree "version" is a tier better,  can you?

 

yes i can...

View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

Stop protecting your favorite toy, like a child.

 

iam not doing that ... neither is it my favorite toy ... give me some arguments or move along

 

 



Simeon85 #26 Posted 21 October 2018 - 08:47 PM

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View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

I own one and know it's op compared to many many others.  If you use the mobility and keep the gun singing,  this thing is brutal. Can't really say the tier 9 tech tree "version" is a tier better,  can you? 

 

And way to be selective. You cut out the two words and not the whole statement.  How was that salty?  Stop protecting your favorite toy, like a child.

 

'OP compared to many others' - Everything is OP compared to a Tiger 2 or AMX AC 48  'If you use skill' - So players are OP. 

 

So not OP then.

 

It doesn't make players overperform, not even at the higher end of the skill spectrum, which is shown by the win rate curves.  It's an objective fact that is not OP and you can't even make good arguments for it being OP.

 

IMO if people have problems with the Skorp G it's a learn to play issue or they just have general issues with camping TDs on some maps that favour them, neither is particular to the tank itself. A camping S1 or ISU-152 in the hands of most players is more problematic IMO then they are in a Skorp G, hell most players perform better in Ferdis than Skorp Gs. 



NoobySkooby #27 Posted 21 October 2018 - 09:15 PM

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View PostKommandant_Mia, on 21 October 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

It's op, but for some reason it doesn't bother me so much. Maybe because I rack up a ton of damage shooting these things with HE.

 

So it is proven that HE is a blessed thing,I love my HE, especially in the Skorpion G, saves on the APCR, (which often bounces) people have called me out for it but they forget every player is different, I have clan mate does not even have APCR aboard, and uses HE against higher tiers, works a treat too:trollface:

LordMuffin #28 Posted 22 October 2018 - 08:41 AM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 21 October 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Why would anyone in there right mind purchase a prem tank if it was inferior? Seen many cdc or panther 8.8's recently?

I know you are fine with p2w elements, n only need to say it more, and that you are also actively using what you consider p2w elements.

Like premium account to afford a 'competetive tank'.

 

Saying p2w elements is fine is not morally wrong or doesn't need to be bad for the game.

But what you express here is that YOU are fine with p2w elements like premiums being better then tech tree counterparts. 



razer01 #29 Posted 22 October 2018 - 08:49 AM

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Just dont get shot, problem solved :)

Simeon85 #30 Posted 22 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 22 October 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

 

But what you express here is that YOU are fine with p2w elements like premiums being better then tech tree counterparts. 

 

That is not pay to win. Lowe is better than Tiger 2, it's not pay to win though because you can get better tech tree tier 8s. 



fwhaatpiraat #31 Posted 22 October 2018 - 08:58 AM

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It's not OP, like IS-3 was not OP in the past (with regularly 6 per team) or the T110E5 after its cupola got buffed to 270+ effectively and suddenly everyone played this tank.

Is just the most played vehicle on the server because eeehm, eeh, people really like playing wank destroyers.

/s

Dorander #32 Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:21 AM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 22 October 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

It's not OP, like IS-3 was not OP in the past (with regularly 6 per team) or the T110E5 after its cupola got buffed to 270+ effectively and suddenly everyone played this tank.

Is just the most played vehicle on the server because eeehm, eeh, people really like playing wank destroyers.

/s

 

The funny thing is that after I actually rented the SkorpG I found it actually plays far more like a paper medium than a TD. It drives like my E50, but with a far better gun and far less armour.

 

If we want to talk about OPness though it's probably best to first define what we're really talking about. I think the SkorpG has a lot of appeal because of its high alpha (especially if you are on the receiving end you'll feel it is immensely strong) but one stat does not make it OP. I'd personally say something is OP only if it overperforms irrespectively of who drives it; so generally the population will win more battles in an OP tank than they do on average. This is different from a tank which has a high skill ceiling and is only powerful in the hands of a skilled driver; so generally the population overall will not win more than their average but in the hands of the right player the tank looks godly.

 

However if we take those godly-looking moments as a sign that something is OP, then... well we can't really get anywhere, there's a brilliant match to be found for every tank.

 

... maybe not the M3 Lee. :trollface:



Laatikkomafia #33 Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:22 AM

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I'd rather have a Scorpion G in both teams driven by a special player, rather than getting the Löwe special -.-

 



Geno1isme #34 Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:52 AM

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View PostBeltalowda, on 21 October 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

This is exactly what I wrote to be the problem, combo of a high alpha guns and mobility. 

 

The only thing the Skorpion really has over the JP2 is the turret and that it is a premium. Neither the alpha nor the mobility are anything special.

 

View PostBeltalowda, on 21 October 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

There is  a lot of them out there, do you guys think we are approaching the same numbers as with E-25 and WG will remove it from the store eventually ?

 

No. E-25 was a unique combination of factors that caused it to be removed, Skorpion isn't anywhere close to that.



Rati_Festa #35 Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:01 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 22 October 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

I know you are fine with p2w elements, n only need to say it more, and that you are also actively using what you consider p2w elements.

Like premium account to afford a 'competetive tank'.

 

Saying p2w elements is fine is not morally wrong or doesn't need to be bad for the game.

But what you express here is that YOU are fine with p2w elements like premiums being better then tech tree counterparts. 

 

No I am fine with them being equal, I don't condone silly releases like the Defender. Most prem tanks have a weakness ( ie paper armour, or exposed ammo rack ) so very few are actually OP in comparison to the tech tree variant, the Lowe is better than the Tiger 2, but that's an exception to the rule. The Tiger 2 is just an abysmal tank that needs attention from WG.

 

Using the Skorp as an example, I'd personally pick the RHM or the Jpanther II over it as I prefer their strong points. It's only the improved credit generation and crew training that makes it more desirable to play in my opinion. The Skorp has become a symbol of the broken MM as it can pen t10's reliable and only has to make a few shots to return a profit, it can't dominate matches easily and is basically a support tank. It need patience and v good map knowledge to play well.

 

I would imagine the rental on the Skorp has removed the mystique surrounding it for a lot of players as it isn't OP, I can't imagine its that exciting to play either.



blacklupos #36 Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:31 AM

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Skorpion is op? Paper armor, 0 camo, horrible gun bloom. It's a TD.

 

Stop complaining about it, only because it is so popular. It doesn't make it OP.


Edited by blacklupos, 22 October 2018 - 11:31 AM.


Beltalowda #37 Posted 22 October 2018 - 11:43 AM

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View Postblacklupos, on 22 October 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Skorpion is op? Paper armor, 0 camo, horrible gun bloom. It's a TD.

 

Stop complaining about it, only because it is so popular. It doesn't make it OP.

 

I have never said that this thing is OP. 

PervyPastryPuffer #38 Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:05 PM

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View PostBeltalowda, on 22 October 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

I have never said that this thing is OP. 

 

Indeed it's not OP, however, it is extremely annoying and broken.

Beltalowda #39 Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:23 PM

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View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 22 October 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

 

Indeed it's not OP, however, it is extremely annoying and broken.

 

That is why I said that combo of a high speed and high alpha gun is problematic to say the least. Especially when we take in consideration all the 490 guns at this tier and amount of HP tanks have. 

 

If you are in a range of 1100 - 1300 HP then after receiving one damaging hit (talking about high rolls here) you are suddenly in a one shot category and that is really annoying and even further reducing the time the battles last.



Rati_Festa #40 Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:35 PM

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View PostBeltalowda, on 22 October 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

That is why I said that combo of a high speed and high alpha gun is problematic to say the least. Especially when we take in consideration all the 490 guns at this tier and amount of HP tanks have. 

 

If you are in a range of 1100 - 1300 HP then after receiving one damaging hit (talking about high rolls here) you are suddenly in a one shot category and that is really annoying and even further reducing the time the battles last.

 

So you have an issue with the noobs renting it and yoloing then? If that's the case I have seen that scenario played out with Lorr 40t's as well. All it has done is allowed people who use to play free ( and badly ) at lower tiers to now play free ( and badly ) at tier 8.

 

The difficulty level gulf between just t8 to t10 over the weekend was crazy due to this. I played my newly unlocked PZ Kpfw. VII and struggled, switched to t8 and won all 5 games as it was filled with bobs in rented ELC's , Skorps and Lorr 40t with no clue how to play. 







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