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Haikonnen #1 Posted 31 October 2018 - 10:54 AM

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Can someone pls tell me why Obj. 277 has 340 fkin milimetres of penetration on its premium rounds?? It makes my Maus a swiss cheese, because it is literally impossible to angle against it with a tank like Maus.

 

If you don't believe it, just fkin take a look here for yourself:

 

https://tanks.gg/tan...j-277&cl=000001

 

So ffs WG lower the premium penetration on these new OP craps. Because now you can hardly call Maus a superheavy. There's no point in playing it right now.



Simeon85 #2 Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:03 AM

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Half the heavies and several meds at tier 10 have 340 penetration HEAT rounds.  E5, IS4, 121, 430U, 277, 260, T57 Heavy, 113, WZ-5A and E100 has 334. 

 

How are you only noticing the 277?

 

As for the Maus's armour, well -

 

 

 

Block Quote

 

Shots received w/o damage

Tier: 10, Type: All, Nation: All, Premium Tanks: All, Server: All, Map: All, Gametype: All, Team: Both, Battles: >1000, Grouped by: Tanks 
Shots received without taking any damage, e.g. bounces, spall liner

 

 

 

 

I think it's doing fine. 

 



Haikonnen #3 Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 31 October 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Half the heavies and several meds at tier 10 have 340 penetration HEAT rounds.  E5, IS4, 121, 430U, 277, 260, T57 Heavy, 113, WZ-5A and E100 has 334. 

 

How are you only noticing the 277?

 

As for the Maus's armour, well -

 

 

 

 

I think it's doing fine. 

 

 

 

Don't know. Just noticed that with 277. But it only means then that the problem lies in more tanks. If a Maus is called a superheavy, it should have a superheavy frontal armor too. But I don't want them to buff it, on the contrary - just reduce the premium pen on tier X vehicles (except TDs I guess). Obj 268-4 or T110E3 have a great frontal armor. At least 268-4 is a lot faster than Maus too. These are advantages over Maus.

 

Btw the video is pointless. It doens't prove anything. Getting shot at from 500 meters away is a lot different than trying to defend yourself in a close quarters fight with a 277 that just keeps spamming gold at you. It is impossible. If a 277 has a bit of brain and some support from the back, you're fucked. Period. And good luck trying to snipe with Maus. Or trying some other playstyle when it takes 30 secs just to turn the Maus around.

 


Edited by Haikonnen, 31 October 2018 - 11:20 AM.


Simeon85 #4 Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:28 AM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

 

 

Don't know. Just noticed that with 277. But it only means then that the problem lies in more tanks. If a Maus is called a superheavy, it should have a superheavy frontal armor too. Like Obj 268-4 or T110E3. These tanks have what I could call a superheavy frontal armor.

 

Btw the video is pointless. It doens't prove anything. Getting shot at from a 500 meters away is a lot different than trying to defend yourself in a close quarters fight with a 277 that just keeps spamming gold at you. It is impossible. If a 277 has a bit of brain and some support form the back, you're fucked. Period. And good luck trying to snipe with Maus. Or trying some other playstyle when it takes 30 secs just to turn the Maus around.

 

Point was he drives into the middle of the field and gets shot at by a lot of premium spam and bounces shed loads.

 

And that statistics show that the Maus bounces on average more than any other tier 10 tank, more than those tanks you mentioned.

 

It also has 3k hit points.

 

You bounce on average 2433 damage per game in the Maus, which means on average each game you have effectively had 5400 hit points in each game, yet you only do 1.5k damage with that HP. That is not a good ratio, it means you are getting shot 3-4 times for every time you do damage. 

 

Which highlights the issue with your play not premium ammo really.

 

Block Quote

 than trying to defend yourself in a close quarters fight with a 277 that just keeps spamming gold at you. It is impossible. If a 277 has a bit of brain and some support form the back, you're fucked

 

 

It's very far from impossible, for a start, 'support at the back' sounds like you are fighting outnumbered, but you have the same alpha and 800 more hit points than a 277, so if you trade 1 for 1 you should kill him before he kills you, also if you angle the Maus turret  and keep moving, you will bounce some HEAT rounds, the Maus also has very good gun handling so you can often just snap shots in.

 

If you are fighting a 277 hull down then you are fighting someone in a superior position anyway, doubly so if you are outnumbered so your positioning and decision making there was not good.

 

I also note that you only payed 19 games in the tier 9, and only 80 something games in the tier 8, so you clearly free XPd to the tier 10 without really learning how to play this line of tanks. 

 

Overall just learn to play issues IMO, you have just decided you lost because of premium ammo, when you didn't, you lost because you don't know how to use the Maus effectively, it's one of the strongest tier 10 tanks and as I have shown is one of the best bouncers of damage. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 31 October 2018 - 11:29 AM.


Haikonnen #5 Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:52 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 31 October 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

 

Point was he drives into the middle of the field and gets shot at by a lot of premium spam and bounces shed loads.

 

And that statistics show that the Maus bounces on average more than any other tier 10 tank, more than those tanks you mentioned.

 

It also has 3k hit points.

 

You bounce on average 2433 damage per game in the Maus, which means on average each game you have effectively had 5400 hit points in each game, yet you only do 1.5k damage with that HP. That is not a good ratio, it means you are getting shot 3-4 times for every time you do damage. 

 

Which highlights the issue with your play not premium ammo really.

 

 

It's very far from impossible, for a start, 'support at the back' sounds like you are fighting outnumbered, but you have the same alpha and 800 more hit points than a 277, so if you trade 1 for 1 you should kill him before he kills you, also if you angle the Maus turret  and keep moving, you will bounce some HEAT rounds, the Maus also has very good gun handling so you can often just snap shots in.

 

If you are fighting a 277 hull down then you are fighting someone in a superior position anyway, doubly so if you are outnumbered so your positioning and decision making there was not good.

 

I also note that you only payed 19 games in the tier 9, and only 80 something games in the tier 8, so you clearly free XPd to the tier 10 without really learning how to play this line of tanks. 

 

Overall just learn to play issues IMO, you have just decided you lost because of premium ammo, when you didn't, you lost because you don't know how to use the Maus effectively, it's one of the strongest tier 10 tanks and as I have shown is one of the best bouncers of damage. 

 

 

 

And again I repeat. It is a pointless video. Getting shot at from 10 meters is a different thing than getting shot at from 500 meters. Learn about how the penetration decreases with distance pls. (EDIT: yeah yeah I fked this one up. HEAT and crap. But it is still easier to aim at weakspots form shorter distance)

 

Maus maybe bounces more than any other tier X tank on average, but that is also because of the guns that are shooting at it. If there is some percentage of tanks that are tier 8 and 9 and simply don't have enough pen even with gold, it's obvious that Maus will bounce them. It's armor is great against lower tiers.

 

I am not however talking about lower tiers. I am talking purely about tier X gameplay. Maus is as far as I know the heaviest tank in the game. And on paper it should also be the best armored tank in the game. Yet against tier X it currently fails to perform it's role as a heavy brawler and a tank that punches through the enemy lines, because everyone ca just dab 2 key and auto pen it. That is my issue.

 

Other tanks are more maneuverable, they have higher pen and turrets that are in practice in a lot of cases harder to pen than the turret of the Maus, which is from the front almost flat.

 

About positioning - have ever tried to reposition in a Maus?? Of course not - you never played it (yes I also know how to check on other people profiles). As I wrote before, it takes 20 seconds just to turn the fkin tank around. Good luck trying to get to a different spot on the map. And THAT is why Maus needs such an armor, that it can forntally fight in any situation without being penned over and over again.

 

And the last thing - you tell me something about not knowing how to play Maus and about free Xping my way to it? AS amatter of fact, yeah I did free XPed my way through Mauschen when there was a discount of XPs. So what? I played 90 games in VK 100.01 P with a 53 % winrate (which is not bad IMO with the current tier 8 MM), about 20 in Mauschen. And I watched a lot of vids about Maus in my 6 years of playing the game. Trust me I know how to angle it and I have a good idea about how to play it.

 

Better than you at least. Becuase I repeat - I also know how to check othe rpeople's profiles. You have never even played this line, so why the [edited]do you even comment on this topic? This is my last reaction to you, I will not waste more time with a useless troll.


Edited by Haikonnen, 31 October 2018 - 12:43 PM.


Cobra6 #6 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:09 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

 

 

And again I repeat. It is a pointless video. Getting shot at from 10 meters is a different thing than getting shot at from 500 meters. Learn about how the penetration decreases with distance pls.

 

 

HEAT loses no penetration over range.

 

APCR does.

 

Since most T10 meds etc. have HEAT then they don't lose pen, doesn't matter if it's 10m away or 1000m.

 

Cobra 6



trrprrprr #7 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:13 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Can someone pls tell me why Obj. 277 has 340 fkin milimetres of penetration on its premium rounds?? It makes my Maus a swiss cheese, because it is literally impossible to angle against it with a tank like Maus.

 

If you don't believe it, just fkin take a look here for yourself:

 

https://tanks.gg/tan...j-277&cl=000001

 

So ffs WG lower the premium penetration on these new OP craps. Because now you can hardly call Maus a superheavy. There's no point in playing it right now.

Its been for alot of years, where slow/heavy tanks are pretty much useless tool inthis game as every other tank does the same, but faster and more enjoyable.... even more, if you arnt a heavy tank, you dont have to take those chokepoints.   Look at mediums and TDs...even lights have alot of dpm and good pen values, that kinda nullifies every superheavy. Superheavy wont be a superheavy untill they fix premium ammo penetration values. if they still in game, they shouldnt be a much different from normal ammo penetration - like 20mm more should be enough...where you still have to aim, but if you hit that weakpoints, you know it will pen for sure.  But as its now, slow tanks are just booring where all that heavy armor just makes you an even easier target.   WoT becomes more like a WT where no matter what type of tank you drive, it only takes one well placed shell to kill you - here is, no matter how much armor you have, you will get penned with premium shells except some extreme angles and badly aimed shots.



gitgud_cannot #8 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:14 PM

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Cmon even tier 9s has 340 HEAT: T-10, St-1, WZ-111-1-4, wz-120, m103. You could arguably complain about those ones, but tier 10s?

Anyway, Maus still has tons of armor, my avg blocked in maus is 2,4k so far, only pz7 has similar amount.


Edited by unrealname, 31 October 2018 - 12:16 PM.


Igor_BL #9 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:14 PM

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omg...

Enherjaren #10 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:37 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 31 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

 

HEAT loses no penetration over range.

 

APCR does.

 

Since most T10 meds etc. have HEAT then they don't lose pen, doesn't matter if it's 10m away or 1000m.

 

Cobra 6

 

Actually HEAT sometimes works even better on long range because it can drop on upper plate on IS-7 and such :D
11:37 Added after 0 minutes
Also most reward tanks has 350 HEAT pen now so enjoy! :justwait:

Haikonnen #11 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:42 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 31 October 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

 

HEAT loses no penetration over range.

 

APCR does.

 

Since most T10 meds etc. have HEAT then they don't lose pen, doesn't matter if it's 10m away or 1000m.

 

Cobra 6

 

 

Yeah that's right, I f** that one up.

 

But it doesn't change much about my core issue. From shorter distance it is easier to aim at the weak spots... :hiding: and therefore harder to fight the othe tanks with 340 pen. It really isn't that difficult to go to Malinovka and make a boss out of yourself, when the enemies only see a small red dot in their crosshairs fron several hundred meters away. But short distance is a whole other story.

 

So I don't know what would be a better solution.. whether to decrease pen or buff Maus even more - but in the current settings it just feels inadequate in many cases. If you are lucky and you meet 10 donkeys that have no idea how to fight you.. yeah you will wreck them in Maus. But a skilled player (or the dab dat 2 key player) will make a swiss cheese out of you in many cases and there's not much you can do about it in Maus.

 

As the armor model in my first comment shows - pretty much regardless of how you angle Maus - if you are fighting some1 with 340 pen, there is always a spot on the front of the Maus, where they have about 70 % chance to go through. Given how slow Maus is and that you can't really reposition in it - as soon as you commit to a spot -say a chokepoint - you have to stay there and fight. And skilled players know that all they really have to do is to wait for you to turn your turret at them when you want to shoot them and bang- they will go through your turret with ease. That is wrong IMO. It shouldn't be that easy with the heaviest tanks in the game.


Edited by Haikonnen, 31 October 2018 - 12:50 PM.


gitgud_cannot #12 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:43 PM

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so what about tds then? JPZ 420 pen, obj 268 395 pen same for china one and foch 155, muricans get freakin 375 apcr lel which is arguably autopen, because its not affected by tracks or spaced armour.

Simeon85 #13 Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:49 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

 

 

And again I repeat. It is a pointless video. Getting shot at from 10 meters is a different thing than getting shot at from 500 meters. Learn about how the penetration decreases with distance pls.

 

Maus maybe bounces more than any other tier X tank on average, but that is also because of the guns that are shooting at it. If there is some percentage of tanks that are tier 8 and 9 and simply don't have enough pen even with gold, it's obvious that Maus will bounce them. It's armor is great against lower tiers.

 

I am not however talking about lower tiers. I am talking purely about tier X gameplay. Maus is as far as I know the heaviest tank in the game. And on paper it should also be the best armored tank in the game. Yet against tier X it currently fails to perform it's role as a heavy brawler and a tank that punches through the enemy lines, because everyone ca just dab 2 key and auto pen it. That is my issue.

 

Other tanks are more maneuverable, they have higher pen and turrets that are in practice in a lot of cases harder to pen than the turret of the Maus, which is from the front almost flat.

 

About positioning - have ever tried to reposition in a Maus?? Of course not - you never played it (yes I also know how to check on other people profiles). As I wrote before, it takes 20 seconds just to turn the fkin tank around. Good luck trying to get to a different spot on the map. And THAT is why Maus needs such an armor, that it can forntally fight in any situation without being penned over and over again.

 

And the last thing - you tell me something about not knowing how to play Maus and about free Xping my way to it? AS amatter of fact, yeah I did free XPed my way through Mauschen when there was a discount of XPs. So what? I played 90 games in VK 100.01 P with a 53 % winrate (which is not bad IMO with the current tier 8 MM), about 20 in Mauschen. And I watched a lot of vids about Maus in my 6 years of playing the game. Trust me I know how to angle it and I have a good idea about how to play it.

 

Better than you at least. Becuase I repeat - I also know how to check othe rpeople's profiles. You have never even played this line, so why the [edited]do you even comment on this topic? This is my last reaction to you, I will not waste more time with a useless troll.

 

Sigh.

 

Posted Image

 

That is a Maus correctly angled against 277's 340 pen HEAT, note the lack of green, most of those 'yellow' areas are around 30-35% chance to pen, which is basically 1 in 3, which means the 277 has to HIT those spots AND pen those spots, which means in reality if is probably penning more like 1 in 4 if not 1 in 5.

 

So that already destroys your silly little whine. 

 

Maus is clearly VERY capable of bouncing 340 pen HEAT at point blank range, it won't stop EVERY shot, but then it doesn't need to, that is why you have 3k hit points to use.

 

Maus armour is great full stop, you are just not every good with it. 

 

Block Quote

 Trust me I know how to angle it and I have a good idea about how to play it.

 

Nope you very clearly do not, someone who did wouldn't be hear whining about premium ammo.

 

Block Quote

 About positioning - have ever tried to reposition in a Maus?? 

 

It's not about re-positioning, it's about choosing the right position IN THE FIRST PLACE. Everything on your team is faster than you, so you will already know where most of your team has deployed and you will already know where the enemy heavies have rocked up before you have got anywhere near where you need to go. 

 

Thus you can see what you are likely to fight, what positions they have, what positions you have to work with and how much support you are likely to have, if you have driven to an area where you don't have much support and a 277 can get hull down, then you failed in your initial deployment, that is very much your fault.

 

As for me playing the Maus, yeh I have 66 games in it with a 64% win rate, 2.4k damage per game and about 2.4k blocked. 

 

Which is better than you are doing it, because you don't know how to play it properly, you played badly, and instead of thinking about what you could have done better you came to whine on the forums about premium ammo like almost every bad heavy tank player does. 



Simeon85 #14 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:00 PM

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:facepalm:

 

That is the live model from tanks.gg 



Haikonnen #15 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:08 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 31 October 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

:facepalm:

 

That is the live model from tanks.gg 

 

Explain this then:

 



Simeon85 #16 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:13 PM

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What needs explaining exactly? You haven't angled the tank well enough, which is part of the point of the Maus, the turret needs to be angled more than the hull, and the hull still needs to be angled a lot.

 

That is Maus 101, if you can't even angle the tank properly in tanks.gg, what hope do you have in game? 



Haikonnen #17 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:29 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 31 October 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

What needs explaining exactly? You haven't angled the tank well enough, which is part of the point of the Maus, the turret needs to be angled more than the hull, and the hull still needs to be angled a lot.

 

That is Maus 101, if you can't even angle the tank properly in tanks.gg, what hope do you have in game? 

 

Why are we even talking about one stupid angle. Maybe I didn't reach that exact one degree where Maus is harder to pen even with 340 pen, but does it change anything about a fact that all they have to do is to wait for you to turn the turret and shoot?? It doesn't.

 

Btw you still haven't answered my question - you don!t have any Maus battles on your profile. So when did you play Maus?? Can you explain? And your profile was created in 2013. So it!s not like this is your fresh account.

 

Or maybe Im just a noob for all I care. My point is that it s hard to enjoy that tank in the current tier X gameplay. Unless you reach one exact degree that is.

 

As for Tier X TDs.. I think they are ok having a high pen. They are TDs after all. 



bnmm113 #18 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

 My point is that it s hard to enjoy that tank in the current tier X gameplay.

it s hard to enjoy that tank in the current tier X gameplay

have you played tier 8? ever? or even powercreept tier 8?

you just free xp everything that doesnt suit you, now you have just gone to the end and you cant free xp anymore so you are whining on the forum.



LethalWalou #19 Posted 31 October 2018 - 01:58 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

Why are we even talking about one stupid angle. Maybe I didn't reach that exact one degree where Maus is harder to pen even with 340 pen, but does it change anything about a fact that all they have to do is to wait for you to turn the turret and shoot?? It doesn't.

 

It isn't something like breathing. You are not forced to turn the turret if they are there waiting. You honestly shouldn't be in a situation where your only way out is to turn your turret to the enemies. If you are outnumbered and they are just staring you, you are already taking potential damage away from them as they are rather staring at you and not shooting than shooting others. Meanwhile your team mates can do the damage. This is one overlooked thing, everyone is so keen on doing damage always that they forget there is multiple ways to play to win the game.

 

About someone not owning a tank, you don't have to own a certain tank to know the game mechanics. Maus has mostly flat armor plates. Those need angling to be effective. The picture Simeon posted earlier was the live view, with a properly angled Maus. That is how you're supposed to angle and if you don't, then don't complain that someone damages you. The game does not need idiot proof tanks that you can just drive around and still bounce most shots.



Jumping_TurtIe #20 Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:00 PM

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View PostHaikonnen, on 31 October 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

 

Btw you still haven't answered my question - you don!t have any Maus battles on your profile. So when did you play Maus?? Can you explain? And your profile was created in 2013. So it!s not like this is your fresh account.

 

He has a Maus, has 66 battles in it with a 63.64% winrate in it with an average 2369 damage per battle.







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