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Defender?


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PhilKingz #621 Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:09 AM

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View PostNeno, on 08 November 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

 

First of all, I don't wanna get into stats thematics here, because it's the topic about a defender that WAS on sale ( I hope they bring the Defender with the awesome paint job on it :B ;).

Second thing, I can't teach you how to play or how to behave vs strongly armored tanks, it's on YOU to decide if what you play and how you play and if that action is bringing you and your team benefit by winning the match/flank.

And the third thing, If you have all that knowledge about armor, positioning dealing with them, why are you crying about one defender when in T9 and T10 are far more armored tanks that are much harder to deal ? and best of all is a question of why you don't join a clan and be a Field Commander, people will appreciate your knowledge and you can put that into practice and bring YOU and YOUR clan a victory. 

 

Thanks for not getting rude.

 

The short answer is: It is not about that we cant deal with defender, but the amount of expenditure we need to invest to deal with it. Same is true to 907vs140. 

Assuming the defender is not angled, you can reliably penetrate the lower plate of the defender tier 10 standart ammo, which is also true to most tier9, since they have tier10 guns (the heavies at least). For Tier 8, 7 and 6, this is a different story and needs to be changed. 112 and IS-M induce a similar issue but not as much. Their LFP (angled 20° to the side) is still 20mm less, which is huge since penetrations values are substracted from the armor values to check for a pen not multiplied.

If i only have 60% chance to pen LFP of tier 8 with standart ammo from a tier10gun, it is just not enough. 80%,  so 1 in 5 times, is still not great, but i would call that "kinda reliable" and similar to other tank profiles. I want a softspot on the front that allows same and lower tier tanks to penetrate it, if a defender is yoloing like a retard without the need to flank him and get into lines of fire of other tanks.

 

The other thing that bothers me is the sideskirt and pikenose. It is stronger than most tier 10 tanks. I already wrote enough of it in #601. A pikenose is the typical mark of an assault tank, cause you can drive directly onto enemylines and bounce without the need to angle, which on the other hand means: angling should make it weaker as a downsite. The problem is that WG angled the pikenose not only to the sides (if you look direkt onto the front), but also strongly backwards, making it still really strong while angling.

 

This is true to the IS3 when it faces lower tier tanks:

Posted Image

 

Now look at the difference of IS7 and Defender:

 Posted Image

 

The main issue is not only that the defender's armormodel is so much stronger than that of an IS3 ( even versus tier10 guns), but that it can compete with one of the most armored tier10 tanks for a certain reason: not only the effective armor thickness, but also the angle of the plate. The IS7 bounces shots, the defender ricochets them so long the normalization angle of the ammo is worse than (80°;), means HEAT. This is just crazy and the result of dumbshit armormodels. Same is true to "907 vs 140" as already said. The LFP of 907 is not always penetrable, the UFO-chassis forces to use HEAT on it, especially if it uses elevations. No one would argue that the 907 is balanced and so i see it with the defender in lower tiers, even if it hasn an UFO-Chassis, but a backwards angled pinke nose.

 

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For me it doesnt matter that i can deal with it by using tier10 guns, i want two things:

1) I want to be able to deal with it with tier8/9 guns without any shenanigans

Posted Image

 

2) I dont want it to autoricochet shots from its upper side skirt.

Posted Image

 

 

If it had huge [edited]weakspots like a "tumor" to compensate or if it would be a tier 10 tank, this would be a different matter, but neither it has nor it is.

The cupolas are broad with low height and not worth aiming for, at least with current accuracy. It is a bit different for tanks like conq, that can also go hulldown and have enough time to make use of their good accuracy, but that cant be the reference for balance.

 

 

 


Edited by PhilKingz, 28 November 2018 - 03:22 PM.


NoobySkooby #622 Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:15 PM

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View Posttomo_braica, on 07 November 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

Its not arty. Its nuclear mortar with laserguided shells. Anyway why you are afraid of defender. People who know that tank also know how to destroy it. Now will only kids buy it because for 120 euro my friend i will buy new cirkular saw not tank for online game. Anyway we all barking at wrog three. Concept of game is limited and wrong. This game started as FPS on tracks, where it will go we will see. There are few tanks not represented in game. And what next? 

 

Afraid? Nope, I even have one, and even when I didn't shots at the lower front plate in a Lowe, can ruin a Defenders day.

 

 

^^^ the guy above me ah done a great deal of research on the armour and stuff but the reality is if you over angle, back to the garage for you, it certainly is not auto bounce, and any decent IS 3 driver will know where to aim, Lowe is another tank that can seriously worry a Defender.


Edited by NoobySkooby, 08 November 2018 - 10:17 PM.


reklakazala #623 Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:28 AM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 08 November 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

 

Afraid? Nope, I even have one, and even when I didn't shots at the lower front plate in a Lowe, can ruin a Defenders day.

 

 

^^^ the guy above me ah done a great deal of research on the armour and stuff but the reality is if you over angle, back to the garage for you, it certainly is not auto bounce, and any decent IS 3 driver will know where to aim, Lowe is another tank that can seriously worry a Defender.

 

THIS HAVE NOTHING with angle or ticknes or anything, its a fraud.

let me explaine

i just play with IS7 against defender and with 150 m range 2 out of 3 shots ricoshet. first was sucess, than 2 ricoshet. tank was at side to me , at angle. but not more than 30 deg. i say it was at 1 o clock and that is 30 deg , aprox.

why ? its calculated taht way

shell type, subcaliber<( where did you learn to shoot, rule is always hit tank with subcal, pierce shell into house, bunker  and frag at infanttry at open ground)

so, i say there is no chance in world maybe only if our lord Jesus sitting at that tank

that is calculated that way

do you realize how complex is problem of armor piercing?its simplification and they go with idea that 60% of shot ricoshet,

also HEAT shell is not what is here represented

heat or hollow charge is HE shell with explosiv and metal arround it, so when it detonate high velocity, high pressure stream is of metal fluid formed and it penetrate armor not by temp.by pure kinetic energy, temp is side effect

efectivness of HEAT depend of diameter( cal), type of explosive( high velocity explosive) and shape of warhead because it gives focus of stream 

Piezo-electric fuse must be issued otherwise , it wont detonate at high angles( this problem was recognized by EX yogoslavian army with m47 patton , with only 25-60 % of sucess, you can read it at forum PALUBA , use translate ,it s written on serbian language)

problem with HEAT shell is with fast moving round shape targets( yep t55-t62 type)

that SPACE armor( what? aliens send that)  from centurion will not save you from HEAT shell, its not explosion that kill you, )

what are ideal targets for HEAT shell?

wweeeellllll jadgpanzer jadgtiger , E100 Maus Maurerbrechen, type 4-5 

what is not :LOEWE ( yep , that nazi army figured out also) IS7 , IS3,T10

everything about it you can also read at wiki, its simple explanation

now . to be honest 122 mm HEAT burn aprox +400 mm, or at angle &= deg about +200 mm of armor

so.once again , its a fraud, 

so please back me up, suport me . writ complaindes about this i have explained

data , info about defender ( andy many other tanks )are not in game as given to us in info

and leave space to manipulate with characteristics of tanks by WOT, and that violete several buyer-seller laws .

its like you buy audi , and after 2 years in service they change engine, sorry mate, 2.0 tdi is too much for you, you can go with 1.6 tdi engine



NoobySkooby #624 Posted 14 November 2018 - 09:17 AM

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^^^^ How is a pixel tank a fraud?

 

We all know WG sometimes exaggerates on things, but long story short a good player (myself not included) will make it work, same as any tank.



AzoreanOutkast #625 Posted 14 November 2018 - 12:28 PM

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Despite u are right about real vs WOT, the later is a game, so they need to keep things balanced for all, off course i agree that the way they went about it is wrong and not exactly something to write home about and is frustating most of the times, but...

 

If we went with the "do as the real deal", then u would need to have the game with battles all of same tier, and tanks would need to be rearranged, since some would become cannon fodder at their current tier.

 

Bottom line, its a game, not perfect, not bad, not good, its what it is, could be better.



NoobySkooby #626 Posted 15 November 2018 - 02:10 AM

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View PostAzoreanOutkast, on 14 November 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Despite u are right about real vs WOT, the later is a game, so they need to keep things balanced for all, off course i agree that the way they went about it is wrong and not exactly something to write home about and is frustating most of the times, but...

 

If we went with the "do as the real deal", then u would need to have the game with battles all of same tier, and tanks would need to be rearranged, since some would become cannon fodder at their current tier.

 

Bottom line, its a game, not perfect, not bad, not good, its what it is, could be better.

 

As a game it will do for me, although sometimes I rage quit, oddly enough for all the Op BS about the newly released russian tank, I find i have similar stats % wise as I do in my Maurbrecher, so the big German cannot be that bad after all:ohmy:

AzoreanOutkast #627 Posted 15 November 2018 - 12:23 PM

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U know when they anounced this 252U sale i was... Damn! Cant get one for me atm... And also, oh oh, this is not good, games will be flooded with them!...

But as time passed and got games filled with it, i came to realize it doesnt matter unless u see a platoon of 3 together since i will kill them all day long with the tanks i got currently, its just a matter o aiming right, and sometimes hit the "2" key, and many of this players are definatly new to the tank, they keep charging me and giving that juicy lower plate for me to shoot at! :)

 

Truth is... Its not with all the tanks that came out the OP beast it was before.


Edited by AzoreanOutkast, 15 November 2018 - 12:24 PM.





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