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Worst Meta Ever

Armor and more armor Camping TDs Arty

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The_Georgian_One #1 Posted 19 November 2018 - 10:50 AM

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I want to express my gratitude and appreciation to WG for developing worst meta I have seen in my WOT career. It's not that obvious on lower tiers (and by 'lower' I mean tier 5-7), cause people are still naive and grind various lines, but on tier 8 and above what you see is:

- armor, tons of armor

- derp guns: Japanese heavies and arty

- red line camping high pen TDs

- red line camping, HEAT spamming meds


 Congratulations, WG, all of this was achieved through gradually indtroducing sandbox ideas into the game by 'increasing importance of armor'. Japanese heavies, German Maus line, Rushian 268v4 line...implementing these means people now have have to play them, spam gold or play high pen TDs and arty.

 

Tier 9 and 10 games are now so predictable...especially tier 10 - you have 6 HTs, 5 TDs, 2 SPGs and a med...oh and a 1 LT driver that apparently has no clue what he's doing.

 

A few years ago, despite the fact that we had far less lines in the game, there was way more variety on higher tiers. Nowadays when you see someone driving Leopard 1 or AMX30B or 50B you know they are either a very bad player or a hipster.

 

A trully unenjoyable meta for a hipster like me, who generally doesn't like heavies and mostly playes support vehicles... :sceptic:


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 19 November 2018 - 10:51 AM.


TankkiPoju #2 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:16 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 19 November 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

A few years ago, despite the fact that we had far less lines in the game, there was way more variety on higher tiers.

 

IMO this is actually the exact opposite of what you said.

 

The reason why "meta" was so much "better" two years ago like you said is because back then tier 10 meds were the undeniable kings. Heavy tank armor and tanks like Maus were complete jokes, and people EVEN THEN just shot HEAT through heavy tank cheeks.

 

So people whined the game is "World of Medium Tanks" and WG then nerfed arty and changed maps.

 

And now people whine the game is "World of Heavy Tanks".

 

And we have tier 10 with min maxed tanks and tier 10 light tanks. And we have Swedish TDs with high DPM and how alpha. And Italian autoloading guns. And slow heavies are actually viable.

 

So there is actually MORE variety in the game. But the problem with more variety is this leads to landslides on many maps, because some tanks are just so much better on many maps.

 

IMHO the biggest problem is 3-5-7 MM, which is the leading cause of landslide games.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 19 November 2018 - 11:19 AM.


LordMuffin #3 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:20 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 19 November 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

IMO this is actually the exact opposite of what you said.

 

The reason why "meta" was so much "better" two years ago like you said is because back then tier 10 meds were the undeniable kings. Heavy tank armor and tanks like Maus were complete jokes, and people EVEN THEN just shot HEAT through heavy tank cheeks.

 

So people whined the game is "World of Medium Tanks" and WG then nerfed arty and changed maps.

 

And now people whine the game is "World of Heavy Tanks".

 

And we have tier 10 with min maxed tanks and tier 10 light tanks, so there is actually MORE variety in the game. But the problem with more variety is this leads to landslides on many maps, because some tanks are just so much better on many maps.

 

No, heavies have always been better then mediums at winning games for the average player and quite high up in the skill brackets.

Now, the difference is just bigger in favour of heavies.

 

The difference is that back then, mediums where viable, now they mostly aren't (if you only care about maximising chances of winning).



The_Georgian_One #4 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:23 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 19 November 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

No, heavies have always been better then mediums at winning games for the average player and quite high up in the skill brackets.

Now, the difference is just bigger in favour of heavies.

 

The difference is that back then, mediums where viable, now they mostly aren't (if you only care about maximising chances of winning).

 

This.

 

And I really don't see the variety. Yes, people were playing Progetto 65 for a while, when it was TOTT and FOTM, but not any more. Swedish TDs are played because they counter armor on some maps and it's easy to camp with them. This is another thing - all of the new stuff is there to appeal to low skill players. Camping TDs and Japanese heavies are just easy mode.



cragarion #5 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:30 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 19 November 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

No, heavies have always been better then mediums at winning games for the average player and quite high up in the skill brackets.

Now, the difference is just bigger in favour of heavies.

 

The difference is that back then, mediums where viable, now they mostly aren't (if you only care about maximising chances of winning).

 

Yeh that's right that's why so many heavies get soloed by med's and lights, that's why i soloed an IS7 in my T44  back in the days before it was totally nerfed and that's back when their were only Russian, German and American tanks, T44s used to run in wolf packs charging straight through the enemy lines, taking out arty first then doubling back to slaughter the heavies.

 

Those were the good old days i miss my pre-nerf T44 :(



250swb #6 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:32 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 19 November 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

...oh and a 1 LT driver that apparently has no clue what he's doing.

 

 

The best thing WG could do is stop calling them 'light tanks' at tier IX and X and call them 'support' tanks because they've been fully compromised as to their roll. They can't spot very well because everybody else's view range is so good, yet they are still bullied into spotting rolls because 'that's what it says on the side of the tin' (proverbially speaking). So you can't blame a light tank player for no having a clue, Wargaming don't have a clue either. And I agree with the rest of your post, it was more involving and exciting before the 'armour' mantra became fashionable, The game seems to have slowed physically with a glut of heavy tanks, but the pace increased when combat is met in players own desperate attempts to justify their new armoured monstrosity, so games are chaotic and without form.



The_Georgian_One #7 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:40 AM

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What I mean by the clueless LT is that you have to be clueless or hipster to play tier 10 LT in the 1st place...

 

Otherwise, I don't think the game is chaotic, on the contrary, you know exactly what will happen on each map as soon as you read the starting lines of both teams. Also, because the way maps are created - large open kill zones discouraging any flanking, corridors to hoard armored tanks to shoot eachother frontally with gold and HE and obligatory camping positions near the base. You just know how the battle will unfold even before it starts.


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 19 November 2018 - 11:41 AM.


Toni112007 #8 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:42 AM

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Tier X meta is this:

>Sidescraping tank full gold ammo (705A...etc)

>Hulldown tank full gold ammo (Super Conq...etc)

>Tank without frontal weakspot with p2w HE round (Type 5)



The_Georgian_One #9 Posted 19 November 2018 - 11:46 AM

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View PostToni112007, on 19 November 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Tier X meta is this:

>Sidescraping tank full gold ammo (705A...etc)

>Hulldown tank full gold ammo (Super Conq...etc)

>Tank without frontal weakspot with p2w HE round (Type 5)

 

Pretty much. I've been playing 60TP to complete TOTT missions and the experience is far from enjoyable.

TankkiPoju #10 Posted 19 November 2018 - 12:37 PM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 19 November 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

And I really don't see the variety. Yes, people were playing Progetto 65 for a while, when it was TOTT and FOTM, but not any more. Swedish TDs are played because they counter armor on some maps and it's easy to camp with them. This is another thing - all of the new stuff is there to appeal to low skill players. Camping TDs and Japanese heavies are just easy mode.

 

Sure, they are easy mode... or at least easier. And I didn't say at any point they weren't.

 

But they still add variety to the game. I only said that.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 19 November 2018 - 12:37 PM.


malachi6 #11 Posted 19 November 2018 - 01:02 PM

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You clearly have access to the internet.  Use the search engine of your choice and research a game you will enjoy.  All problems solved.  Self-flagellation is not needed to enjoy a game.  Unless of course that is your thing.

The_Georgian_One #12 Posted 19 November 2018 - 03:45 PM

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View Postmalachi6, on 19 November 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

You clearly have access to the internet.  Use the search engine of your choice and research a game you will enjoy.  All problems solved.  Self-flagellation is not needed to enjoy a game.  Unless of course that is your thing.

 

I find it difficult to start playing anything new and I invested a lot in this game, time and money. Also, funny how this comment comes from a player that mostly plays low tier battles and doesn't understand the issue.

Edited by The_Georgian_One, 19 November 2018 - 04:00 PM.


Cobra6 #13 Posted 19 November 2018 - 04:59 PM

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Simple, artificial compensation for player definciencies in balancing of (heavy) vehicles.

 

More and more WG tries to compensate for terrible players/-style in the balancing of vehicles so that Steve still has a good time as Steve has the biggest wallet.

This obviously results in a bland and boring game in the long run.

 

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Discontinued #14 Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

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Shame they cant balance it for me

laulaur #15 Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

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Add to this the tiny corridor maps that leaves you no choices of how to play and where to go.

Yeah, indeed the games have become predictable as hell, and i think this is what WG wants. A simple game for simple people, because sadly they are the majority...:child:



Dorander #16 Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:13 PM

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The funny thing is that as the game changes, people don't actually change their tactics, this only happens when the map changes. Heavy play is an especially good example of this, most heavies go where they "should" go, where they find the enemy heavies waiting for them (or wait for the enemy heavies if they're first) because that's where they "should" fight, and then complain they lost because of tank imbalance.

 

So few people ever think to change their tactics and force the enemies to abandon their dug-in positions, to stop earlier at a position where their own team is fortified and the enemy is exposed. There's a risk in trying this of course as your teammates may do as they "should" anyway, but this is where communication comes in. Sometimes it even works. I've seen people obliterate a far "stronger" enemy heavy flank 'cause they didn't go to the usual spot but forced the superheavies to come out and push that line, exposing themselves not only to the heavy tank fire but also to the TD lines.

 

An even simpler tactic is to swap flanks and use your armour to support the medline. Once you free up your meds they can harass and flank those sidescrapers.



Cobra6 #17 Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:16 PM

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View PostDorander, on 19 November 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

The funny thing is that as the game changes, people don't actually change their tactics, this only happens when the map changes. Heavy play is an especially good example of this, most heavies go where they "should" go, where they find the enemy heavies waiting for them (or wait for the enemy heavies if they're first) because that's where they "should" fight, and then complain they lost because of tank imbalance.

 

So few people ever think to change their tactics and force the enemies to abandon their dug-in positions, to stop earlier at a position where their own team is fortified and the enemy is exposed. There's a risk in trying this of course as your teammates may do as they "should" anyway, but this is where communication comes in. Sometimes it even works. I've seen people obliterate a far "stronger" enemy heavy flank 'cause they didn't go to the usual spot but forced the superheavies to come out and push that line, exposing themselves not only to the heavy tank fire but also to the TD lines.

 

An even simpler tactic is to swap flanks and use your armour to support the medline. Once you free up your meds they can harass and flank those sidescrapers.

 

 

As long as pretty much each map has 3 key locations that need to be occupied ASAP and held if one even wants to stand a small chance of winning, this won't change.

 

You can do a lot of cool tactics in CW/SH with a coordinated team or in Randoms as a solo (good) player, but if your team is terrible you'll still lose a lot of battles.

It's not good for bad/average players to get creative with map positions as they clearly lack the tactical insight to make good (and sound) decisions on what positions they occupy, it's better they go to the standard and try to do as much damage there or hold back the enemy as long as possible.

 

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Noo_Noo #18 Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:28 PM

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For me tank balance is an issue but equally so is map design. 

Map balance is a problem because certain areas which are too strong, or too weak and provide one team with an advantage over the other. 
Secondly many maps have OP TD encampments which are simply too strong and easy for them to defend. Its very easy to sit in these areas with your binocs and spam away unspotted. I've lost count of times when I've contributed to a flank being won and the push has been stopped dead by a TD or two ripping everyone apart from an unspotted position and a completely safe one too. 

Saif #19 Posted 19 November 2018 - 07:13 PM

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If the game does earn enough money, they will change nothing. The game must lose players and money so they start tto make huge differences. simple

 



fwhaatpiraat #20 Posted 19 November 2018 - 07:20 PM

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Meta in 2014 was way more disgusting. Way more bushes with 10+ camping tds per team.
Inb4 screenshots of 28 arties in a team(edit: game) btw.

Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 20 November 2018 - 12:03 PM.





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