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LT-432 vs LTTB...P2W or something I don't know about?

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Simeon85 #21 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:07 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 20 November 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

 

The agility makes LTTB more prone to flipping. It's also taller, and has no gun depression, so in most of the situations it's easier to hit. But it doesn't matter, cause the question isn't - 'is the 432 OP?', the question is 'why the heck it's better than all the LTs available in tech trees?'

 

Never flipped in the Lttb to my recollection, just saying that the Lttb has some obvious advantages being a much more agile, faster and smaller package which is important for light tanks. The 432 is huge in comparison even if it's low profile it's clearly easier to hit than most of the other lights aside the M41s. 

 

The answer to your second question is obvious, because for some reason WG wanted all tier 8 lights and up to be crap for no real reason, I mean why is the T71 for example way way better tier for tier than all the tier 8 -10 lights? 

 

If they pulled the same stunt with premiums they wouldn't sell, all the premium lights at tier 8 are better.  I mean the T92 is quite obviously superior to the Bulldog, it's got better gun handling, better engine power/ground resistances, it's way smaller and lower profile and has better camo.  No one complained about that at the time, because the T92 is still not that good. 

 

Most of the premium tier 8 meds are better than the tech tree ones as well, Progetto, Lorraine, M4 Rev, Type 59, Cent 5/1 RAAC, T-44-100.

 

WG clearly recognise that premiums have to be competitive to sell but can't recognise how crap that makes the tech tree tanks not only in comparison but overall. 

 

 



tumppi776 #22 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:14 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 20 November 2018 - 09:07 AM, said:

 

 

Most of the premium tier 8 meds are better than the tech tree ones as well, Progetto, Lorraine, M4 Rev, Type 59, Cent 5/1 RAAC, T-44-100.

 

 

 

 

 

super garbage class: cdc, sta2, panther 88



Rati_Festa #23 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:18 AM

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The LT 432 is lethal on ridges, I bounced the turret in my LEO pta which I think has 265 pen on the apcr, it has to expose so little of the turret its really hard to hit and this is with a t9 sniper tank :S. While the lt432 just peaked and spammed me penning every time. I can't recall ever being "bullied" by a tier lower light when driving med :)

 

It refreshing to see a decent t8 light though, just wish it had been a standard tank. I've not enjoyed playing any of my t8 standards, hopefully, it might get WG looking at fixing the standard lines.



trrprrprr #24 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:34 AM

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Not op? Lol, i really regret buying T92 time ago...compared to this beast T92 is like a tier 3 vs tier 8.   Even more, first days of it appearing in games in tier 8 as a top dog, LT always where on first spot with 3 to 4k damage. Seen many run around in open bouncing all kind of calibre shells while snapshoting others.....it bounces way too much for a light tank...that supposed to be a spotter class.   Remove its speed or remove its troll armor, otherwise its way too OP tank.  Or make a special MM where LT432 doesnt see tier 6-7, but always tier 8-10.

tumppi776 #25 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:41 AM

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View Posttrrprrprr, on 20 November 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

Not op? Lol, i really regret buying T92 time ago...compared to this beast T92 is like a tier 3 vs tier 8.   Even more, first days of it appearing in games in tier 8 as a top dog, LT always where on first spot with 3 to 4k damage. Seen many run around in open bouncing all kind of calibre shells while snapshoting others.....it bounces way too much for a light tank...that supposed to be a spotter class.   Remove its speed or remove its troll armor, otherwise its way too OP tank.  Or make a special MM where LT432 doesnt see tier 6-7, but always tier 8-10.

 

OP premiums are here to stay.

 

They will never nerf it.



Dr_Oolen #26 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:43 AM

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Answer to OP: because its a premium tonk and its rashn.

 

Personally i wouldnt even mind it being as good as it is, if tech tree lights were also as good. Because objectively speaking 432 is "well balanced" t8 light tank, while all the tech tree ones (and t92, elc even, and the coming hwk 30) are simply dog crap. IMO 432 is what an average t8 light should be. 

 

Then one could start a whole new discussion about balance of t8 meds and all t8+ lights in general... brb t8 premium med with limited MM is better than all tech tree meds apart from one... The general aids balance in wot where the tanks with best armor also get the best gun handling and dpm, while the tanks with the worst armor get the worst gun handling, but are "compensated" with +5 km/h top speed, maybe +1 hp/t on average and lately not even better accuracy...

 

"Comrade, this rashn light/medium tonk will be our new brawling tonk meant for close range combat where it can use its armor effectively, better give it better accuracy, dpm and gun handling than the non armored tonks, but make it balanced by giving it 5% worse mobility."



djuro900 #27 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:45 AM

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It's not overpowered it is actually fine. The problem is as many have already sad that the other tier 8 lights are underpowered. So yes if you compare to other lights it is op but that's only because other tier 8 lights are bad.

tumppi776 #28 Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:56 AM

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View Postdjuro900, on 20 November 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

It's not overpowered it is actually fine. The problem is as many have already sad that the other tier 8 lights are underpowered. So yes if you compare to other lights it is op but that's only because other tier 8 lights are bad.

 

LT and SPG always get matched vs LT's and SPGs (barr the +-1 rule)

 

As such the Obj 432 will dominate tier 8 LT space - just like the tier X T-100 LT dominates tier X LT space.

 

When driving any other T8 LT and matched against 432 - youre immediately at an disadvantage.

 



spuriousmonkey #29 Posted 20 November 2018 - 11:47 AM

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I have noticed that lately I get regularly an MM where one team has one light tank more.

 

I only noticed because this never used to happen.



FluffyRedFox #30 Posted 20 November 2018 - 11:50 AM

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After playing the 432 for a bit, I actually prefer the LTTB.

The issue with bringing up tanks.gg comparisons is you see a lot of red on the LTTB side and all critical thinking stops there. Take the firepower section for instance:

- DPM is 35 better, better sure but why does it matter?

- Penetration is apparently better on the 432, but its not since its APCR as standard so the LTTB is actually superior in this regard.

- RoF, see DPM.

- Shell velocity is again, another minor difference that I can't feel a difference between them when playing the pair.

- Ammo capacity is the only one here that I would say has a somewhat substantial impact, but it makes sense since the 432 is a lot bigger than the LTTB.

Thats all I find to it, the 432 having very minor advantages over the LTTB in most things, which I find justified since its much bigger. I'd even call the armour advantage minor as its only there for troll bounces, and both LTTB and 432 have roughly the same amount of auto-ricochet zones. The one exception for this is naturally when its top tier against tier 6s as most mediums and lights will struggle against that turret, but then T54 lwt does the exact same thing with its 180mm turret against tier 7s.

 

TL;DR - I find them on par with each other, with 432 having very subtle advantages to balance out the fatass platform.


Edited by FluffyRedFox, 20 November 2018 - 11:50 AM.


Makotti #31 Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:05 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 20 November 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Personally i wouldnt even mind it being as good as it is, if tech tree lights were also as good. Because objectively speaking 432 is "well balanced" t8 light tank, while all the tech tree ones (and t92, elc even, and the coming hwk 30) are simply dog crap. IMO 432 is what an average t8 light should be.

Dunno...I'm not even near of being as good player as you but still I find T92 and especially EVEN more enjoyable than this. Played the rental period thru (for some weird reason it gave me just 24 games) and still on fence should I buy it or not. It's not bad tank, turrent is bouncy as hell and prints credits but as a scout the previous 2 are miles better. Maybe my mindset needs some adjustments with this, same goes for M4190GF - just can't make it work.



Simeon85 #32 Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:20 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 20 November 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

"Comrade, this rashn light/medium tonk will be our new brawling tonk meant for close range combat where it can use its armor effectively, better give it better accuracy, dpm and gun handling than the non armored tonks, but make it balanced by giving it 5% worse mobility."

 

This design principle was something that was actually tested back on the day on Sandbox with the Rasha meds, they had poorer accuracy, penetration, aim times, and view range, IIRC but obviously very good armour and dispersions for close range brawling.  But they never took it forward. 

 

It's also sort of the T-100s design principle, it's worse off in view range, accuracy and pen compared to the other lights but has amazing dispersion and the troll armour, but they also made most of the other tier 10 lights not every accurate and with not much more pen. 

 

 

View Posttumppi776, on 20 November 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

 

LT and SPG always get matched vs LT's and SPGs (barr the +-1 rule)

 

As such the Obj 432 will dominate tier 8 LT space - just like the tier X T-100 LT dominates tier X LT space.

 

When driving any other T8 LT and matched against 432 - youre immediately at an disadvantage.

 

 

Not really.

 

A Bat Chat 12t has more damage potential due to the autoloader, the M41 90 has a clear gun advantage with it;s better pen on both rounds, alpha and high pen HE, and both the T92 and Even 90 will easily out spot it as they have better view range/camo combinations than this thing.

 

432 is more of an all rounder, most of the other tier 8 lights are more specialised to a specific role. It's only clear advantage is it's bully ability top tier, any other tier 8 light is HE pennable pretty much to tier 6 and 7s meds so those lights will lose their HP easily to lower tiers, this thing can bully bully those lower tiers and preserve HP for end game.

 

But if you got Malinovka for example, a T92, probably the Hwk-12 and especially the Even 90 will control the vision game much better. 

 

Even-90 dominates any passive spotting scenario compared to any other tier 8 light.

 

T-100 doesn't challenge the other tier 10 lights in anything but spotting, firepower wise it's much worse than the others bar the Rhm. which is such a bad platform that it can't leverage it;'s better gun. But the other 3 will easily out gun the T-100 on most maps, they have the alpha, the DPM, the pen and the HEAT rounds, plus the better accuracy. a 13-105 is much more valuable to the team for example on non-spotting maps because it's burst damage is so much more powerful. 

 

View PostFluffyRedFox, on 20 November 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

After playing the 432 for a bit, I actually prefer the LTTB.

The issue with bringing up tanks.gg comparisons is you see a lot of red on the LTTB side and all critical thinking stops there. Take the firepower section for instance:

- DPM is 35 better, better sure but why does it matter?

- Penetration is apparently better on the 432, but its not since its APCR as standard so the LTTB is actually superior in this regard.

- RoF, see DPM.

- Shell velocity is again, another minor difference that I can't feel a difference between them when playing the pair.

- Ammo capacity is the only one here that I would say has a somewhat substantial impact, but it makes sense since the 432 is a lot bigger than the LTTB.

Thats all I find to it, the 432 having very minor advantages over the LTTB in most things, which I find justified since its much bigger. I'd even call the armour advantage minor as its only there for troll bounces, and both LTTB and 432 have roughly the same amount of auto-ricochet zones. The one exception for this is naturally when its top tier against tier 6s as most mediums and lights will struggle against that turret, but then T54 lwt does the exact same thing with its 180mm turret against tier 7s.

 

TL;DR - I find them on par with each other, with 432 having very subtle advantages to balance out the fatass platform.

 

Yeh I think people are over rating it based on paper stats and it's 'newness' 

 

Like I said I still come back to the fact that whilst Skill rated it as tier for tier the best light in the game and was adamant it was much better than the other tier 8 lights, the actual statistics showing his performance showed it performing no better for him than most of the others. 



DeadLecter #33 Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:41 PM

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It's not P2W it's Russian.
Btw jokes aside, they need to make their tanks good enough (read OP) to make people want to open their wallets regardless of the nation of the tank. I'm just scared of what comes next. I won't be surprised if WG's solution to 3/5/7 MM will be new premium T8 tanks with TX TD guns and calling them balanced

13jcrowe #34 Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:41 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 20 November 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

 

Its called WG Greed and scumbag powercreep. i was playing some matches today in 432. (i havent bought the tank) and its just flat out the best if not 2nd best (blackdog) LT at tier 8. its just completely better than every single tier 8 LT. Power to weight is BS for that ammount of armor on a low profile troll angled LT. compare it to T92 and see yourself how stupidly good 432 is in comparison. 380 viewrange dont mean crap when you can slap optics and stack food/vents skills to make it STILL super high. the guns 1000% better and a stupid HE shell.

 

Its not OP, but its defo too good for a tier 8 LT in comparison to the absolute junk that it compares to, like again, T92.

 

Edit: but seriously ***** you WG for making my T92 go 60 top speed while this thing goes 70+. ***** you to hell.

 



the_real_ratman #35 Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:28 PM

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Is this tank overpowered? Well, i guess it depends on how you look at it. When compared to the rest of the tier 8 lights in the tech tree it probably is OP. The overall package of the LT-432 is just flat out better than anything you can get from the tech tree. It has it all: top speed, mobility, camo, dpm, gun handling, armor etc. In a 1 on 1 situation with equally skilled players the LT-432 will most likely wreck every other regular tier 8 light and even most of the other premiums. Sure, the EVEN 90 for example could abuse its camo to get the edge over the LT-432, the WZ-132 could make use of the higher alpha and so on. But if you are only good at one thing, you need a very specific situation to come out on top, whereas the LT-432 does not need that situation. It is just good in every situation, which is the real strongpoint of this tank in my opinion.

However, it is still a light tank, which always have been and likely always will be the underdog in WoT. Any decent tier 8 medium for example will be more valuable and more powerfull in almost any situation other than spotting on open maps. Most things you can do in a light you could also do in a medium, just better. So when looking at the game as a whole, i dont think the LT-432 is OP. At least not enough to matter. I dont think anyone will ever say "oh no, they have a LT-432 in their team, we are screwed". Its just not the same kind of OP as the Defender or the old Object 268v4 for example, that can easily turn the tide of a battle even when driven by bad players. As others have said, if anything, the regular tier 8 lights should be buffed to match the LT-432, not the other way around.

So anyway, TL;DR: The LT-432 is probably OP when compared to the regular tier 8 lights, but probably not when it comes to overall game balance.



Search_Warrant #36 Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View Postthe_real_ratman, on 20 November 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

 if anything, the regular tier 8 lights should be buffed to match the LT-432, not the other way around.

 

Saying this is like some sort of false hope, we all know it will never happen. did they buff all teir 8 heavies when they sold Defender? they even said it was OP and they released it a second time. did any heavy tank get buffed the second time on release? no...they dident, and never will.

FluffyRedFox #37 Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:49 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 20 November 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

 

Saying this is like some sort of false hope, we all know it will never happen. did they buff all teir 8 heavies when they sold Defender? they even said it was OP and they released it a second time. did any heavy tank get buffed the second time on release? no...they dident, and never will.

Shitty comparison since Defender is OP by itself even without comparison while 432 doesn't really outclass any of the lights. Buffing the tier 8 lights to 432 level wouldn't impact tank balance, but buffing all heavies to Defender levels would be a complete shitfest.



Search_Warrant #38 Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:01 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 20 November 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

Shitty comparison since Defender is OP by itself even without comparison while 432 doesn't really outclass any of the lights. Buffing the tier 8 lights to 432 level wouldn't impact tank balance, but buffing all heavies to Defender levels would be a complete shitfest.

 

Nah cant be a complete shitfest. i mean if WG sold it a 2nd time, it means defenders fair and balanced right? :trollface:

FluffyRedFox #39 Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:05 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 20 November 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

Nah cant be a complete shitfest. i mean if WG sold it a 2nd time, it means defenders fair and balanced right? :trollface:

Think of the mauerbrecher buffs

>turret front to 260

>lower plate to 200

>inner side to 160mm

:trollface:



Rati_Festa #40 Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:05 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 20 November 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

Saying this is like some sort of false hope, we all know it will never happen. did they buff all teir 8 heavies when they sold Defender? they even said it was OP and they released it a second time. did any heavy tank get buffed the second time on release? no...they dident, and never will.

 

They actually beefed up most of the PREM heavies after and around the Defenders launch though, I can only think of the Maurbrecher that is balanced in the more recent heavy prem tanks. Once they set a precedent they are pretty much stuck to that line aren't they? If they want to sell something. The sales of IS6, 112's etc no doubt died once the Defender hit the market, who wants to buy boring old "balanced" tanks :) It did change how they created newer tanks, its a shame they don't seem to give a **** about all the old ones in our garage.

 

Most of the recent prem meds are far superior to the older versions, half if not more of the standard t8s meds are a joke now. They have become completely irrelevant since the Progetto, I have been playing mine doing the missions recently and its far superior to the older meds. I saw some poor fool in a t-34-2 today and I actually thought it was a t7 ( firstly because I haven't seen one for months and secondly as it was doing so badly in the game :) )







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