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Making Arty Better For Everyone (Proposal)

Arty artillery proposal suggestion new update idea spg gun self

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FrantisekBascovansky #21 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:02 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 10 December 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

So, we all know the pain arty currently is, don't we? Ummm... no, we don't. The pain is when any enemy is shooting me. Not just enemy arty.

We are all fed up with it and want it to be re-rebalanced, No, we are not. Maybe you and couple of fellow whiners are. You guys just believe that your thoughts are broadly accepted idea but not many of us actually think what could be done with them besides pointlessly spamming "remove them all" on all subforums. Let's change that and try to initiate a productive conversation for once.

I present you my proposal for reworking artillery.

 

My proposal is pretty simple and straightforward. It makes use of a characteristic actual real SPGs have and makes them more complex by adding a whole new mechanic, increasing the skill-cap of the whole class. Sounds interesting? Not really. SPGs are complex enough and we don't need to add new mechanic. In fact, we need to remove one mechanic. Stick with me as I'll explain everything down below.

 

The new mechanic I am talking about is a different kind of "siege mode" especially made for arties. Let's call it "firing mode" from now on. No, you already have swedish TDs.

 

 

All this game need is revert SPGs to pre-big-nerf state, buff it back where it was, add AP shells, and remove stun mechanics because even whiners who asked for it don't really like it.



Sfinski #22 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:06 PM

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View PostSiliconSidewinder, on 11 December 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

 

and that's simply BS, as arty is balanced right now.

You may not like it, but that's in the end your very own problem.

 

If only I were the only one who thought that... But nope, it's hated through the playerbase and considered one of the biggest problems the game has.

 

 



Isharial #23 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:10 PM

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to remove arty, we need to look at tank balance as a whole as well. arty is something we require in the game because of the amount of hull down tanks that generally rule now. its a counter to it that other tanks just cant do. 

 

id rather they simply reverted it to what it was and focused more on the actual problems, like tanks that are imbalanced and ones that lower tiers cant damage even with a "gold" round. that I find is more of an issue than the occasional arty hit for 200 damage and a 8 sec stun

 

arty is just a bandage on the wound of tank balance, along with "gold" ammo.. fix the cause not the effect



ApocalypseSquad #24 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:16 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 11 December 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

 

If only I were the only one who thought that... But nope, it's hated through the playerbase and considered one of the biggest problems the game has.

 

 

 

Then the playerbase is wrong.  I never understand the vitriol poured on arty.  Sure, it can be annoying occasionally but that's usually a sign that I have been hanging around in the wrong place for too long and need to get off my backside and do something more constructive.  I don't play it much, but when I do certainly don't find it has the super powers the haters attribute it with....

Sfinski #25 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:29 PM

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View PostApocalypseSquad, on 11 December 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

 

Then the playerbase is wrong.  I never understand the vitriol poured on arty.  Sure, it can be annoying occasionally but that's usually a sign that I have been hanging around in the wrong place for too long and need to get off my backside and do something more constructive.  I don't play it much, but when I do certainly don't find it has the super powers the haters attribute it with....

 

Yes, the playerbase is wrong 'cause you don't understand the game and the effects on gameplay....

Xandania #26 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:55 PM

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I'm getting really sick of proponents of one theory or another claiming to speak for the playerbase/the people.

 



StinkyStonky #27 Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:56 PM

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I've got an idea ....

 

A setting in Settings

 

[x] I don't like Arty.

 

Check it and you get more games without arty.

Don't check it and you get more games with arty.

 

And there would be a reward for not checking it (more XP / Credits for not checking it).

 

Those that don't like arty would have a better time (less arty games).

Those that aren't bothered would have a better time (more credits/XP).

Those that play arty would have a better time (more credits/xp and less people moaning at/tking them).

 

I'll await the responses from those than want arty removed but aren't willing to pay anything for it.



KillingJoker #28 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:05 PM

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This topic will be either closed by a mod using as excuse there is another topic for artillery... or it will like a previous topic i made be moved into another sub-forum...

so no one pay attention to the discussion...

 

good attempt anyway...  i kinda like the idea of limiting the arty traverse in firing mode so they cant activelly destroy moving targets, that's the most anoying thing about arty

is when they persuit targets over the map.



Soltau_Womble #29 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:16 PM

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Max of 2 Arty per team would help decrease its effectiveness without ruining the game play of the Arty itself. 3 arty is just nightmare at times makes certain parts of a map unplayable.

Homer_J #30 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:20 PM

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Voted no because.

 

It's an arcade game, not a simulator.

 

OP clearly doesn't play arty if he thinks they can just swivel round and land a shot the opposite side of the map any time they like.  They can't, well apart from M53/55 which can pretty much cover the whole map from one corner, the French turreted arties turn their turret far too slowly and most of the rest have a terrible firing arc and the slightest nudge of your hull produces an aim circle the size of Birmingham.



Gremlin182 #31 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:23 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 10 December 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

So, we all know the pain arty currently is, don't we?

We are all fed up with it and want it to be re-rebalanced, but not many of us actually think what could be done with them besides pointlessly spamming "remove them all" on all subforums. Let's change that and try to initiate a productive conversation for once.

I present you my proposal for reworking artillery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was able to remove an awful lot of what you said as although a comprehensive explanation of how arty works doesn't help much in the game.

It basically comes down to I hate arty how can I make it so bad I can ignore it from now on.

 

I start with the part of your post I left.

Who are these ALL you refer to when you remember that only a tiny proportion of the EU players visit the forums and a smaller proportion of those comment and an even smaller proportion comment on SPGs.

All could be as few as 50 people.

 

Yes arty can be a pain though mostly you can ignore it.

No there are not always 3 arty in your games quite often its 2 or 1 and sometimes none.

When they are there they do not always do much they certainly do not always target you and they certainly don't hit moving tanks very often other than very slowly moving tanks going in a straight line.

They also nearly always lose when faced with an attacking tank.

For a start they have terrible view ranges so most tanks get the first shot in before being spotted and that's usually enough.

 

How many games do you see when the SPGs are top for damage or kills, its pretty rare so although they may be wrecking a few tanks they simply are not the big killers in games.

And if they are not getting High calibers or Top gun medals all the time how effective are they.

 

If they went through with your ideas there would be no point in anyone playing them which rather seems to be your aim.

Completely defenceless when facing an approaching tank even more than they are now.

No better than they are now worse in fact when in firing mode.

 

So counter proposal yes to the firing mode travel mode but in firing mode accuracy and rof go up.

Or if you want some realism Im up for that too SPGs seldom if ever fired as single units so make each SPG represent a battery of SPGs so they can fire barrages.

Yes to all your suggestions but when I fire I get 5 shells dropping on my target area and once I am aimed in on that spot I get a faster rof.

We are off board as well so can only be suppressed by counter battery fire

 



WoT_RU_Doing #32 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:34 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 11 December 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

How many games do you see when the SPGs [on the winning team] are top for damage or kills, its pretty rare so although they may be wrecking a few tanks they simply are not the big killers in games.

And if they are not getting High calibers or Top gun medals all the time how effective are they.

 


 

 

 

Just one minor correction^, as in a 15:1 or 15:0 loss, the top dmg/kills/XP earner is fairly meaningless

Edited by WoT_RU_Doing, 11 December 2018 - 06:36 PM.


FrantisekBascovansky #33 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:34 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 11 December 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

I've got an idea ....

 

A setting in Settings

 

[x] I don't like Arty.

 

Check it and you get more games without arty.

Don't check it and you get more games with arty.

 

And there would be a reward for not checking it (more XP / Credits for not checking it).

 

Those that don't like arty would have a better time (less arty games).

Those that aren't bothered would have a better time (more credits/XP).

Those that play arty would have a better time (more credits/xp and less people moaning at/tking them).

 

I'll await the responses from those than want arty removed but aren't willing to pay anything for it.

 

No, because for every aspect of the game, there is a whiner.

So people will immediately propose for another checkboxes:

 

[x] No +2 MM.

[x] No autoloaders.

[x] No TDs.

[x] No derp guns.

[x] No gold ammo.

[x] No OP tanks.

[x] No russian tanks.

[x] No tomatoes in my team.

.

.

ad nauseam.

 

So NO, accept the game as it is, or play another one.

 

 



WoT_RU_Doing #34 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:44 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 11 December 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

I've got an idea ....

 

A setting in Settings

 

[x] I don't like Arty.

 

Check it and you get more games without arty.

Don't check it and you get more games with arty.

 

And there would be a reward for not checking it (more XP / Credits for not checking it).

 

Those that don't like arty would have a better time (less arty games).

Those that aren't bothered would have a better time (more credits/XP).

Those that play arty would have a better time (more credits/xp and less people moaning at/tking them).

 

I'll await the responses from those than want arty removed but aren't willing to pay anything for it.

 

Actually, it'd potentially cause a real problem. Personally I'd start by clicking the "I don't like arty" box every time I play a heavy, and possibly TDs. I'd uncheck again it for every match I play in lights or mediums. I suspect that many people would do the same, and you'd end up with basically two different sets of games, with segregation of classes in the two battle types.

EDIT: actually after thinking, I'd want arty when I play TD's, because those battles are probably where all the lights have gone, and I need my spotter. So heavies are mostly left on their own now, which is actually probably fine for the majority of people who whine about arty - I think most of them tend to be major advocates of heavies.


Edited by WoT_RU_Doing, 11 December 2018 - 06:47 PM.


grizly1973 #35 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 11 December 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

This topic will be either closed by a mod using as excuse there is another topic for artillery... or it will like a previous topic i made be moved into another sub-forum...

so no one pay attention to the discussion...

 

good attempt anyway...  i kinda like the idea of limiting the arty traverse in firing mode so they cant activelly destroy moving targets, that's the most anoying thing about arty

is when they persuit targets over the map.

 

That's the whole point of my suggestion. To reduce their ability to snap shots. Contrary to what a few of the readers of my proposal believe, I do actually play my M12 a few times a month, and I can just feel how annoying I am while doing so. I feel it's too accurate against moving targets and that it's also very sneaky & fast. Sticking a firing mode to that would quickly cut down on these abilities, forcing me to shoot at slow targets.
17:53 Added after 4 minutes

View PostXandania, on 11 December 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'm getting really sick of proponents of one theory or another claiming to speak for the playerbase/the people.

 

Well, I only spoke for the readers of a few blogs, namely The Armored Patrol, The Daily Bounce, Rita's Status Report, the long-dead For The Record and rykoszet news. I'd say that's quite enough players with a decent amount of experience that are demanding yet another change to arty.
17:54 Added after 5 minutes

View PostSoltau_Womble, on 11 December 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Max of 2 Arty per team would help decrease its effectiveness without ruining the game play of the Arty itself. 3 arty is just nightmare at times makes certain parts of a map unplayable.

 

That's true, but if you reduce that number you have to rework a few Epic Medals that are rewarded for destroying X number of arties of Y tiers higher than your vehicle.
17:57 Added after 8 minutes

View PostHomer_J, on 11 December 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Voted no because.

 

It's an arcade game, not a simulator.

 

OP clearly doesn't play arty if he thinks they can just swivel round and land a shot the opposite side of the map any time they like.  They can't, well apart from M53/55 which can pretty much cover the whole map from one corner, the French turreted arties turn their turret far too slowly and most of the rest have a terrible firing arc and the slightest nudge of your hull produces an aim circle the size of Birmingham.

 

I'm not aiming at making WoT a more historical/realistic game. I'm aiming at introducing some mechanics that will make arty unable to perform so better at certain specific tasks (i.e. shooting fast targets). I actually do play my M12 and S-51 rarely. In fact, 12% of my 20k games are played in arties so I'm not unaware of how they play.

ApocalypseSquad #36 Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:58 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 11 December 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

 

Yes, the playerbase is wrong 'cause you don't understand the game and the effects on gameplay..

 

Maybe you're right.  The way I see it so long as you don't camp in the open, don't park in the known TD positions and keep moving unpredictably, then arty is not a big problem.  

 

The only potential gameplay issue I might acknowledge would be a tendency for teams to set up camp in arty shadow.  But if this was a real issue surely most games would end in draws?

 

Happy to be enlightened....



grizly1973 #37 Posted 11 December 2018 - 07:04 PM

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View PostFrantisekBascovansky, on 11 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

1. Ummm... no, we don't. The pain is when any enemy is shooting me. Not just enemy arty.

2. No, we are not. Maybe you and couple of fellow whiners are. You guys just believe that your thoughts are broadly accepted idea

3. Not really. SPGs are complex enough and we don't need to add new mechanic. In fact, we need to remove one mechanic..

4. No, you already have swedish TDs.

5. All this game need is revert SPGs to pre-big-nerf state, buff it back where it was, add AP shells, and remove stun mechanics because even whiners who asked for it don't really like it.

1. I'm pretty sure you can agree that being shot by arty is more infuriating than being shot by a tank you can actually see and take fast countermeasures against, instead of being squahed like an unexpecting frog by an owl without any warning.

2. Whining is, by definition, crying about something being wrong without proposing any kind of solution regarding said problem. I have just proposed a solution regarding this problem (be it good or bad) and this very topic you read right now is a discussion about the proposed solution. Thus, this point is completly irrelevant. I have mentioned that I'm looking for a productive discussion. Thank you for understanding.

3. Judging from my humble & subjective point of view, sitting at the back of them map and clicking on tanks that stay out in hull-down positions and giving some lead to moving targets without requiring any other level of knowledge is not complex enough for a game of WoT's standards.

4. With the IS-3A you already have Italian medium tanks. The difference between the new IS-3A and the Italian mediums is just as big as my hypothetical re-rebalanced arties are compared to Swedish TDs. Both cases are regarding a different class of vehicles (heavy - medium & SPG - TD) and would require different playstyles.

5. I'll let other people tell you why that would be bad, like really bad. And again, people were having proposals and ideas published on the forums back then too, meaning that they weren't "whiners" (see point 2 to see why that is)

Thank you for asking these questions & allowing me to clear up the situations with these answers. Happy tanking!  :honoring:


Edited by grizly1973, 11 December 2018 - 07:12 PM.


WoT_RU_Doing #38 Posted 11 December 2018 - 07:04 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 11 December 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

 

That's the whole point of my suggestion. To reduce their ability to snap shots. Contrary to what a few of the readers of my proposal believe, I do actually play my M12 a few times a month, and I can just feel how annoying I am while doing so. I feel it's too accurate against moving targets and that it's also very sneaky & fast. Sticking a firing mode to that would quickly cut down on these abilities, forcing me to shoot at slow targets.

 

I'd hardly call the M12 accurate, fast or sneaky. I can only suggest that you've experienced some exceptional luck in your 93 battles. Your 37% hit rate is interesting, and better than I can achieve on most of my arties. Meanwhile I explained why I didn't like your suggestions in my original response on page 1.

1ucky #39 Posted 11 December 2018 - 07:09 PM

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I'm already using arty with the X key hull lock like you suggested, helps by removing hull traverse related aim bloom.

And hitting moving targets is already tricky enough by the way.

Basically the only way you get them is if they run into your pre-aimed gun, you can't really chase them (which is of course fair enough).

If it seems otherwise from the other side, those must be either exceptionally lucky (extremely uncommon) shots, or it's just a warped perception.

 

I guess one of the main reasons (perhaps even the *only* reason) that arty sucks is that there are multiple arties per side per game.

Plus you even get stunned and damaged (or sometimes even TK'd) by your own team's arty often enough, especially when in close quarters / facehugging enemies.

 

Maybe reducing team damage tolerance for arty players would help a bit, as well as obviously reducing the number of artillery pieces per match. Guess the former should be easy to do, while the latter is tricky cause it sucks if you grind a tank and then aren't allowed to play it.



WoT_RU_Doing #40 Posted 11 December 2018 - 07:09 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 11 December 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

1. I'm pretty sure you can agree that being shot by arty is more infuriating than being shot by a tank you can actually see and take fast countermeasures against, instead of being squahed like an unexpecting frog by an owl without any warning.

2. Whining is, by definition, crying about something being wrong without proposing any kind of solution regarding said problem. I have just proposed a solution regarding this problem (be it good or bad) and this very topic you read right now is a discussion about the proposed solution. Thus, this point is completly irrelevant. I have mentioned that I'm looking for a productive discussion. Thank you for understanding.

 

For point 1 I personally don't find getting shot by arty more annoying than by any other tank. I do get annoyed if clearly did something stupid to allow it to happen, again regardless of the tank class involved. Then of course I am annoyed, because I won't admit to myself that it was my own fault until at least a few minutes have passed.

For point 2, if you ignore the posters use of the word whiner, he has a point that you've totally ignored. Specifically that your belief that everyone hates arty is flawed.







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