Jump to content


Clans - 2018 Recap and Road Ahead


  • Please log in to reply
78 replies to this topic

Community #1 Posted 17 December 2018 - 01:53 PM

    Sergeant

  • Content Team
  • 0 battles
  • 27,181
  • Member since:
    11-09-2011
The Anniversary Clan Wars Season has come to an end. Well, time to sum up!

The full text of the news item

Swoopie #2 Posted 17 December 2018 - 02:13 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 28495 battles
  • 2,540
  • [-PJ-] -PJ-
  • Member since:
    01-15-2011

Block Quote

 We will also introduce bonuses for all members of a clan. We feel that the social aspects of being in a clan are just as important as the competitive elements. With this in mind, you will receive benefits for being a member of a clan with no required participation in competitive activities. In other words, you can join a clan and carry out the clan missions without changing your usual game style, playing just for fun, as always!

 

Pog

 



SlyMeerkat #3 Posted 17 December 2018 - 02:24 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16907 battles
  • 2,443
  • [FILO] FILO
  • Member since:
    01-29-2013
Nice

TijgernootTank #4 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:11 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 49413 battles
  • 247
  • [TOURN] TOURN
  • Member since:
    03-31-2013

It is nice to try do some extra for clans .

I have one more suggestion ;  how about a clanchat that works without any bugs .

 

Even with latest patch , still bugs in clanchat , have been around now for ages .

 

Members not able to message in clanchat or read new messages .

Players not showing on clanchannel while being online in contacts .

At times it can be completely unclear for players this is happening , maybe typing in clanchat and wonder why no reaction .

No need to say this bug can be bad for clans if u cant communicate in game in clanchat and can only use private messages .

Especially for clans that dont have constant teamspeak on , or dont use at all voicecom in clan , then its annoying when  it keeps happening that a player gets bug regarding the clanchat .

I cant imagine this problem is not known at WG , cant this be fixed for good ?



fighting_falcon93 #5 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:24 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32148 battles
  • 4,315
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013
I really like that you're making it more worthwhile to join a clan for casual players that can't play during set time windows etc. The only thing I'm missing here is either the possibility for casual players to earn atleast small amounts of gold, or the way that WoWs has done it, implementing "clan resources" that can be exchanged into stuff like premium tanks, unique commanders, styles etc.

Bloodybajaz #6 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:29 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 8412 battles
  • 36
  • Member since:
    07-20-2015
The last time I played clan battles was while there was clan wars for tier 6.Bring back tier 6 cb or maybe new format for tier 7 vehicles.
And if you need new ideas steal some for wows.

Cobra6 #7 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:30 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16401 battles
  • 16,276
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

When are you going to remove the failed Skill-Based MM sapping the fun out of skirmishes?

 

Skimishes was a relaxed but coordinated game mode for clans to fight each other. To fight in a team that worked together against an enemy team that worked together.

Nowadays it's only try hard or go home since with the introduction of the SBMM you only fight opponents of similar skill so unless you bring the best tanks, get ready to lose most of the time. 

 

It's fine to have SBMM for stronghold battles but from skirmishes it should be removed.

 

Cobra 6



fighting_falcon93 #8 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:48 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32148 battles
  • 4,315
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

When are you going to remove the failed Skill-Based MM sapping the fun out of skirmishes?

 

Skimishes was a relaxed but coordinated game mode for clans to fight each other. To fight in a team that worked together against an enemy team that worked together.

Nowadays it's only try hard or go home since with the introduction of the SBMM you only fight opponents of similar skill so unless you bring the best tanks, get ready to lose most of the time. 

 

It's fine to have SBMM for stronghold battles but from skirmishes it should be removed.

 

Cobra 6

 

And the average clans? How do you think they felt with the old matchmaker? You complain that you have to fight against clans of a similiar skill level, while the average clans had to fight against clans that was twice or three times better, resulting in a total roflstomp. If anything, the SBMM made it more fun for everyone and not just fun for the best clans.

Sturmi_0545 #9 Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:49 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 41801 battles
  • 494
  • [SNOB] SNOB
  • Member since:
    02-24-2011
Any plans to implement an anti cartel/monopoly/manipulation system or task force that prevents unoffical "top clan" agreements during campaigns, account sharing and other shenanigans distorting the competition?

Cobra6 #10 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:05 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16401 battles
  • 16,276
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 17 December 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

And the average clans? How do you think they felt with the old matchmaker? You complain that you have to fight against clans of a similiar skill level, while the average clans had to fight against clans that was twice or three times better, resulting in a total roflstomp. If anything, the SBMM made it more fun for everyone and not just fun for the best clans.

 

How do you mean? They still fight against opponents of similar skill so they will lose pretty much just as much.

The only thing this change did was try to equalize *everyones* win-rate to roughly 50%.

 

If you get better as a clan/team/player, the reward should be that you win more matches, *because you are simply better*. Trying to artificially remove that reward with failed SBMM removes the incentive to become better as there is no reward.

 

And lets not forget there are many many MANY more clans that are average fighting, then there are high-skill clans fighting to the chances of a HS-clan roflstomping the same team over and over in the old MM was minimal.

Those average clans that were losing to HS-clans but winning against all the lesser clans now suddenly have to fight same-skill opponents as well. In other words, they lose more as they don't get to fight against players worse then them anymore.

Those average clans now also need to run try hard setups as they now have to fight harder for their victories as well.

 

Everyone loses apart from the absolute bottom.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 17 December 2018 - 04:06 PM.


Zorgane #11 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:21 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 24430 battles
  • 3,123
  • [FORGE] FORGE
  • Member since:
    11-30-2013

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 17 December 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

And the average clans? How do you think they felt with the old matchmaker? You complain that you have to fight against clans of a similiar skill level, while the average clans had to fight against clans that was twice or three times better, resulting in a total roflstomp. If anything, the SBMM made it more fun for everyone and not just fun for the best clans.

 

It wasnt a issue for me or a lot of people when I was in some average clans before going to a better clan. We learn about ours defeats and improved ourselves unlike complaining. What we see currently is a huge stagnation because the retarded skill MM based doesnt put bad-average clans outside of their safe zone which is a non-sense.

Just tell me why bad players should be protected in skirmishes ? They are too dumbs to learn from better clans ?



PanzerPjotr #12 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:36 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 40517 battles
  • 31
  • [DFPC] DFPC
  • Member since:
    03-12-2013

Development in clan mechanics looks promising. I have one beef with global maps though. Global Map seems to be totally dominated by a select few top clans, further enhanced by the recently introduced ability to form alliances. Each season it's the same. A bunch of top clans, with a nearly full complement of members, dominate the map and haul in the gold by the tens of thousands. The top clans completely dominate the Tier X front, but can also be found on the Tier VIII front. After all, why be content with one dominated map if you can do the same on a second map. These top clans can do this because they have nearly a hundred members. If you belong to a lower ranked clan (like mine..clan rating just above 5000, placed 2500 in the ranking list with 54 members of which about 25-30 are really active) you can pretty much forget owning a province for any length of time. You can compete in landing battles and earn gold for the missions and that is about it.

 

I would very much like to see more opportunity to partake in Global Wars for lower ranked clans, with the exclusion of the top clans already dominating the other maps. Maybe a division system ( like in national football competitions) based on clan rating could be introduced. Something like the SBMM in skirmishes but for clans! 



Max_Calibre #13 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:41 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20924 battles
  • 1,057
  • [T-OG] T-OG
  • Member since:
    02-03-2014

Don't you need 1000's of active and enthusiastic players for Clan Wars 

 

since 2015 the heyday & most successful year of WOT any clan iv been in is NOW struggling to find or even keep active players, never mind good players

something to do with maybe 50% of all the players I know from WOT over the years …. are not playing WOT anymore  ((all those issues you keep ignoring or macking worse

 

you have much work to do … just saying WG y'know



Cobra6 #14 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:42 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16401 battles
  • 16,276
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

View PostPanzerPjotr, on 17 December 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

Development in clan mechanics looks promising. I have one beef with global maps though. Global Map seems to be totally dominated by a select few top clans, further enhanced by the recently introduced ability to form alliances. Each season it's the same. A bunch of top clans, with a nearly full complement of members, dominate the map and haul in the gold by the tens of thousands. The top clans completely dominate the Tier X front, but can also be found on the Tier VIII front. After all, why be content with one dominated map if you can do the same on a second map. These top clans can do this because they have nearly a hundred members. If you belong to a lower ranked clan (like mine..clan rating just above 5000, placed 2500 in the ranking list with 54 members of which about 25-30 are really active) you can pretty much forget owning a province for any length of time. You can compete in landing battles and earn gold for the missions and that is about it.

 

I would very much like to see more opportunity to partake in Global Wars for lower ranked clans, with the exclusion of the top clans already dominating the other maps. Maybe a division system ( like in national football competitions) based on clan rating could be introduced. Something like the SBMM in skirmishes but for clans! 

 

How about, a strange thought: Improve, get in better clans and get the rewards associated with being better?

 

Why should average clans get the same rewards as the best clans, just hypothetically speaking for a moment. What is the incentive to improve there? What is the point?

Like with the SBMM in skirmishes, there is no real incentive to improve at all because you'll lose as many battles if you're a clan with good players as you do if you are a clan with average players as you only get pitched against opponents of similar skill. Hence everyone ends up with roughly the same winratio.

That is boring, it's not rewarding, it's bad. It's only good for those at the absolute bottom who don't lose pretty much every battle they fight anymore, but *EVERYONE* up the line has to suffer for that.

 

Cobra 6

 


Edited by Cobra6, 17 December 2018 - 04:43 PM.


PanzerPjotr #15 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:50 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 40517 battles
  • 31
  • [DFPC] DFPC
  • Member since:
    03-12-2013

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

 

How do you mean? They still fight against opponents of similar skill so they will lose pretty much just as much.

The only thing this change did was try to equalize *everyones* win-rate to roughly 50%.

 

If you get better as a clan/team/player, the reward should be that you win more matches, *because you are simply better*. Trying to artificially remove that reward with failed SBMM removes the incentive to become better as there is no reward.

 

And lets not forget there are many many MANY more clans that are average fighting, then there are high-skill clans fighting to the chances of a HS-clan roflstomping the same team over and over in the old MM was minimal.

Those average clans that were losing to HS-clans but winning against all the lesser clans now suddenly have to fight same-skill opponents as well. In other words, they lose more as they don't get to fight against players worse then them anymore.

Those average clans now also need to run try hard setups as they now have to fight harder for their victories as well.

 

Everyone loses apart from the absolute bottom.

 

Cobra 6

 

View PostZorgane, on 17 December 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

It wasnt a issue for me or a lot of people when I was in some average clans before going to a better clan. We learn about ours defeats and improved ourselves unlike complaining. What we see currently is a huge stagnation because the retarded skill MM based doesnt put bad-average clans outside of their safe zone which is a non-sense.

Just tell me why bad players should be protected in skirmishes ? They are too dumbs to learn from better clans ?

 

I fail to see how playing against lesser skilled teams is beneficial to your own teams skill progression. This more seems like whining about the fact you cant have easy wins anymore. And if you are so eager to learn from better clans, you should be only interested in playing against only better clans and not whine about not being able to roflstomp lesser teams. I am totally satisfied with the current SMBB  (wish that would be implemented in random games too). You get a nice mix of opponents that either provide a relatively easy win, a more demanding effort to win or draw and every so often a clearly better team that calls for going above and beyond your normal playing skill. And you learn best from your mistakes and these can be made against a team of any skill, high or low!

Cobra6 #16 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:55 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16401 battles
  • 16,276
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

View PostPanzerPjotr, on 17 December 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

 

 

I fail to see how playing against lesser skilled teams is beneficial to your own teams skill progression. This more seems like whining about the fact you cant have easy wins anymore. And if you are so eager to learn from better clans, you should be only interested in playing against only better clans and not whine about not being able to roflstomp lesser teams. I am totally satisfied with the current SMBB  (wish that would be implemented in random games too). You get a nice mix of opponents that either provide a relatively easy win, a more demanding effort to win or draw and every so often a clearly better team that calls for going above and beyond your normal playing skill. And you learn best from your mistakes and these can be made against a team of any skill, high or low!

 

See that is what we have clan wars and strongholds for, you fight against better skilled clans.

 

Skirmishes is a relaxed mode where coordinated teams fight each other, it's like randoms but with more teamplay.

 

People are not complaining because they can't have easy wins, they are complaining because the reward for improving themselves was to win more battles then to lose them which has been artificially taken away to cater to the lowest common denominator.

 

But besides that, don't you think that good clans run into better clans in skirmishes either? Heck, we got mangled by top clans just as much as the next one. Did we complain or whine for SBMM in skirmishes though?

 

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 17 December 2018 - 04:59 PM.


Simona2k #17 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:57 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 2285 battles
  • 440
  • [GGLT] GGLT
  • Member since:
    10-01-2017

View PostSlyMeerkat, on 17 December 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nice

 

Nice



fighting_falcon93 #18 Posted 17 December 2018 - 04:58 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32148 battles
  • 4,315
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

How do you mean? They still fight against opponents of similar skill so they will lose pretty much just as much.

 

I mean that before they sometimes got matched up against hopeless opponents, battles where they could just go afk because there was not even any point in trying. Now, they instead get matched up against fair opponents, where their battle performance actually is important, and not where the MM already decides the outcome before the battle has started.

 

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

If you get better as a clan/team/player, the reward should be that you win more matches, *because you are simply better*

 

Not necessarily. With that thinking we should put up Bobs Tomato Clan against ROIDS or Tornado just because these guys "should" win more. The reward for becoming better is that the prize pool increases, but so does the competition. That's how it works in real life and most other games aswell.

 

The only thing missing here is to make the rewards better scaled for highly skilled clans and average clans. Right now, highly skilled clans gets everything, while average clans get nothing. In my opinion, they should make it so a clan gets rewards based on the opponents ELO rating they defeated. So, a highly skilled clan might meet another highly skilled clan, but they also get a higher reward, since their opponent has a higher ELO rating. For average clans, they would get fair matchups, but since their opponents have a lower ELO rating, they get a bit lower rewards. This would encourage clans and players to become better. The reward could either be gold, or some kind of clan resource that can be exchanged to gold, premium tanks, unique commanders, styles etc.

 

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

Those average clans now also need to run try hard setups as they now have to fight harder for their victories as well.

 

Which is good, because that means they learn much more from their battles, which in turn will make them better.

 

View PostZorgane, on 17 December 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

We learn about ours defeats and improved ourselves

 

You can do that even with skill based MM. You might even learn quicker since all of your battles will not be a challenge instead of only X%.

 

View PostZorgane, on 17 December 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

the retarded skill MM based doesnt put bad-average clans outside of their safe zone which is a non-sense.

 

It's "retarded" and "non-sense" from your point of view, because you want to exploit these clans and sealclub them for free resources. I even find it funny because you want to create a "safe zone" for yourself where you can roflstomp weak clans X% of your battles, but at the same time, you think it's an awful idea to give these weaker clans a type of "safe zone".

 

View PostZorgane, on 17 December 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

Just tell me why bad players should be protected in skirmishes ? They are too dumbs to learn from better clans ?

 

They're not "protected", they're getting a fair match up, an opponent that they can actually have an interesting battle against instead of getting rolled over. It takes time to learn and get better, that's not something you do over night. But if they keep getting matched up against unfair opponents, they will grow tired of the game before they manage to get better.



Cobra6 #19 Posted 17 December 2018 - 05:04 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16401 battles
  • 16,276
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 17 December 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

I mean that before they sometimes got matched up against hopeless opponents, battles where they could just go afk because there was not even any point in trying. Now, they instead get matched up against fair opponents, where their battle performance actually is important, and not where the MM already decides the outcome before the battle has started.

 

 

Why go AFK? It's not like good/top clans are unbeatable, that is just enforcing myths. 

 

If you put up a good fight, you stand a very fair chance of winning. However, your mistakes are also punished off harder which will make you improve.

 

When we came up against FAME/OMNI whatever we didn't go AFK and just give up either, you fight and if you fight well, you can pull off a win but it's not easy.

 

Cobra 6



fighting_falcon93 #20 Posted 17 December 2018 - 05:08 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 32148 battles
  • 4,315
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

Why should average clans get the same rewards as the best clans

 

They don't get the same rewards, they get nothing at all. Currently it's completely binary. If you're in the top, you get thousands of free gold every day. If you're in the middle, you get nothing at all, or if you're lucky, a whopping 2 gold per day. That's not a reward, that's an insult.

 

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

What is the incentive to improve there? What is the point?

 

The incentative to improve comes from getting a higher reward. Instead of giving everything to the best, and nothing to the middle, they should give a bit to the mid, and more to the top. That would create incentive to become better since you want more rewards. Right now, new players try it out and think "lul why should I waste my time here to get nothing".

 

Take a look how it's in reality. In different sports, you have different leagues, and each league gets the same kind of reward (prize money), but the amount differs depending on the league.

 

This can be mirrored onto the global map and skirmishes aswell. If average players felt that they could atleast earn a small but meaningful amount of gold by participating in competetive clan activites, I'm pretty sure that clans would become a lot more popular, and by becoming more popular, WG would also invest more time and money into development/activites centered around competetive clan gameplay, which would benefit you on the top aswell.

 

16:14 Added after 6 minutes

View PostCobra6, on 17 December 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

Why go AFK? It's not like good/top clans are unbeatable, that is just enforcing myths. 

 

If you put up a good fight, you stand a very fair chance of winning. However, your mistakes are also punished off harder which will make you improve.

 

When we came up against FAME/OMNI whatever we didn't go AFK and just give up either, you fight and if you fight well, you can pull off a win but it's not easy.

 

Cobra 6

 

You're a good player in a good clan, you still have some chance against top clans like ROIDS/CSA/GX etc. Even with that in mind, how often would your clan beat any of the top clans? 1 out of 5? 1 out of 10? So what do you expect Bobs Tomato Clan to do against the top clans? They have no chance, it's not a myth, it's about being realistic. And I know that I'm comparing 2 extremes now, but even if we take a less extreme example, it's still not fun to play at an disadvantage. The most fun games are the ones where you meet a team of similiar skill level where the actual plays and tactics matter, and not the RNG of the MM.

 

Also, you never told me what you though about this:

 

View Postfighting_falcon93, on 17 December 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

The only thing missing here is to make the rewards better scaled for highly skilled clans and average clans. Right now, highly skilled clans gets everything, while average clans get nothing. In my opinion, they should make it so a clan gets rewards based on the opponents ELO rating they defeated. So, a highly skilled clan might meet another highly skilled clan, but they also get a higher reward, since their opponent has a higher ELO rating. For average clans, they would get fair matchups, but since their opponents have a lower ELO rating, they get a bit lower rewards. This would encourage clans and players to become better. The reward could either be gold, or some kind of clan resource that can be exchanged to gold, premium tanks, unique commanders, styles etc.

 

Would this make it more fair in your opinion?


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 17 December 2018 - 05:19 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users