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Shells Rebalance


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vuque #1 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:01 PM

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Hello Commanders,

 

From words—to deeds!

 

Today we’re starting work on one of the hottest and the most discussed issues among those mentioned at WG Fest 2018: the overall 25–30% drop in damage for special rounds. We want to make the shell choice more thoughtful in every battle situation and lower the damage special rounds deal (especially against well-armored spots).

 

It should be noted: this is the very first testing iteration aimed at general evaluation of our hypothesis described above. For now, it’s merely a rebalance of special shells’ damage, without any adjustments to their cost.

 

We’ll conduct the Supertest with a limited selection of vehicles (a bit more than 30) to check:

  • the viability of the idea and the impact of its implementation on the game;
  • the effect of lowering the special shells’ damage has on the total damage dealt;
  • the overall combat efficiency of the vehicles involved in testing.

 

The decision to decrease special rounds’ damage isn’t set in stone as it’s still in development, so it may change significantly. After the first testing run, we’ll decide what to do next: we may change the amount of damage we slash off the special rounds, fine-tune the stats of individual vehicles, or enlarge the pool of tanks in the Supertest to gather even more data.

 

Of course, we’ll take into consideration your feedback on the proposed changes.

 

We intentionally selected very different vehicles for the testing pool—for the most efficient tracking of the impact the rebalance will have on battle stats. For some vehicles having APCRs as their basic rounds, we substituted these with AP shots of the same speed. Likewise, for the vehicles with AP rounds as their specials, we replaced these with APCRs. We’ll track the distribution of damage done per shell type, the changes in vehicles’ battle stats with regard to their class and role, and lots of other parameters.

 

Spoiler

  

 

A few questions we hope to get answers for after the test

  1. How much shall the special rounds’ damage (especially against well-armored targets) drop? This is one of the key areas the players on heavily armored vehicles asked us to address.
  2. How shall the damage be re-distributed between the two other shell types? Our aim is to reduce the special rounds damage (against well-armored targets in particular). Thus the overall damage of other shell types could grow; we want to check whether it’s true during the test. We’ll monitor these parameters and modify them if needed.
  3. How shall the share of HE shell damage change? Currently, the total share of HE damage is small, and we don’t intend to change it. Overall, the combined special HE shell damage is mostly dealt by the Type 4 Heavy and the Type 5 Heavy tanks (we adjusted some stats of both of these for the test). The special round for the Type 5 Heavy will be substituted with a HESH with an alpha of 750 points and a penetration of 193 mm. During the tests, we’ll thoroughly monitor the changes in HE shells usage after the special rounds rebalance.
  4. How shall the rebalance affect the battle performance of individual vehicles? We know that currently certain tanks are played with a greater-than-average special to non-special rounds ratio, to increase their efficiency. So we want to assess how these vehicles’ performance changes.

 

The test is just starting, and your feedback will help us make correct decisions. Let us know what you think, and we’ll consider it while working on the adjustments for the next iteration.

 

Follow the news and good luck in the battlefield!



RagingRaptor #2 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:04 PM

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Interesting idea so far. I might want to ask / add. The T49's standart shell is HE. So does he looses his "special" HE shells with more pen or does he loose his HEAT shells with 152mm Pen, which at the moment are treated as a standart shell type?

Denton_0451 #3 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:05 PM

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I don't think this is the way to go if you still don't want to bring back weakspots. This will just buff all those problematic vehicles even more (some of them won't even be nerfed because they are premiums) by giving them more effective HP when shot by premium shells.

vuque #4 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:10 PM

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View PostRagingRaptor, on 20 December 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Interesting idea so far. I might want to ask / add. The T49's standart shell is HE. So does he looses his "special" HE shells with more pen or does he loose his HEAT shells with 152mm Pen, which at the moment are treated as a standart shell type?

 

The information provided in the table above for T49's shell is for the HEAT shell which is a special shell! :)

Edited by vuque, 20 December 2018 - 03:53 PM.


Denton_0451 #5 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:16 PM

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View Postvuque, on 20 December 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

The information provided in the table above for T49's shell is for the HEAT shell which is a special shell! :)

 

But the HEAT on it is a regular cost shell unlike the special HE which could be bought for gold in the past too.

Anna_Kalashnikova #6 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:16 PM

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Thank you for sharing. I'm looking forward to the first result!

RagingRaptor #7 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:19 PM

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View Postvuque, on 20 December 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

 

The information provided in the table above for T49's shell is for the HEAT shell which is a special shell! :)

 

My point is what Denton_0451 said already that at the moment HEAT is considered a normal shell in the current gamepatch. So would that mean ( in theory) that tanks like the IKV 103 will recieve AP as their new standart Ammo. Is that in theory then the same for the T49? Will he recieve also AP as standart? And lastly ( sorry for asking so much :V) Will the T49 loose premium HE but will get AP, HE and HEAT as ammonition choises?

VerticalBird_ #8 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:26 PM

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The biggest problem I have with this is the legendary +-25% RNG. How are you supposed to balance shells, let's take a Panther II/Pershing as an example, that can either do 320 dmg with a high roll with AP, or a massive 135 with a low roll with APCR? Think about these tanks in a tier10 game,  both of them need a lot of gold now and they will probably need it in the future as well. The gold rounds, especially on the Panther II are also so bad that you can't reliably pen even Tier9 heavies from their "weakspots", so why the heck would you spend more credits to buy shells that can literally just bankrupt you since a) won't pen, b) do a massive 180 avg dmg, which is like a mosquito sting for tier10s. 

 

Also, I hope you realize that with +-2mm, this is a buff to high tiers and a massive nerf to low tiers, since the low tiers need to shoot gold to top tiers, and do less damage, whereas the high tiers just laugh at your damage and shoot normal rounds to you. To me, this feels like a complete waste of working hours, since this can't be balanced properly without literally CHANGING THE WHOLE GAME. 



DaddysLittlePrincess #9 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:28 PM

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View Postvuque, on 20 December 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

For some vehicles having APCRs as their basic rounds, we substituted these with AP shots of the same speed. 

Oh yes, because shell speed is the only thing that differentiate ammo types :facepalm: Yes, buff UDES which doesn't even need premium ammo and kill all tanks balanced around premium ammo. 

 



RagingRaptor #10 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:35 PM

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View PostVerticalBird_, on 20 December 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

The biggest problem I have with this is the legendary +-25% RNG. How are you supposed to balance shells, let's take a Panther II/Pershing as an example, that can either do 320 dmg with a high roll with AP, or a massive 135 with a low roll with APCR? Think about these tanks in a tier10 game,  both of them need a lot of gold now and they will probably need it in the future as well. The gold rounds, especially on the Panther II are also so bad that you can't reliably pen even Tier9 heavies from their "weakspots", so why the heck would you spend more credits to buy shells that can literally just bankrupt you since a) won't pen, b) do a massive 180 avg dmg, which is like a mosquito sting for tier10s. 

 

Also, I hope you realize that with +-2mm, this is a buff to high tiers and a massive nerf to low tiers, since the low tiers need to shoot gold to top tiers, and do less damage, whereas the high tiers just laugh at your damage and shoot normal rounds to you. To me, this feels like a complete waste of working hours, since this can't be balanced properly without literally CHANGING THE WHOLE GAME. 

 

My 105mm 390 guns cry in 293 dmg lowroles ;) 

vuque #11 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:44 PM

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View PostDenton_0451, on 20 December 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

 

But the HEAT on it is a regular cost shell unlike the special HE which could be bought for gold in the past too.

 

View PostRagingRaptor, on 20 December 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

My point is what Denton_0451 said already that at the moment HEAT is considered a normal shell in the current gamepatch. So would that mean ( in theory) that tanks like the IKV 103 will recieve AP as their new standart Ammo. Is that in theory then the same for the T49? Will he recieve also AP as standart? And lastly ( sorry for asking so much :V) Will the T49 loose premium HE but will get AP, HE and HEAT as ammonition choises?

 

You guys are correct, I am sorry that I provided wrong information, we are poking few guys to see what is the case! I will get back to you! ;)

Anna_Kalashnikova #12 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

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I already asked in the german forum, but once again here:

 

Type 5 will not be able to penetrate the E100 with any Ammo (as long as E100 is angleling it's lfp; Ultra luck hits with HESH to the Viewing device on the top or the turret ring excluded -> .48 Accuracy). So Type 5 will not use "Special Shells" (HESH) anymore fighting an E100 frontally. HE deals ~200-300 dmg (high rolls and lucky weak spot hits excluded), Hesh will deal 175 less on average due to lower alpha (what about the splash radius btw.?).

 

=> Goldspam successfully removed

 

E100 is still not able to pen a Type 5 at the front (exceptional highrolls and poorly angled armor + "regular" penroll + hitting the small box with 250 armor excluded). E100 will still make quite easy 530 dmg with HEAT.

 

=> Goldspam will continue and will be as at least as efficient as it used to be.

 

 

Is this correct?


Edited by Anna_Kalashnikova, 20 December 2018 - 04:08 PM.


FluffyRedFox #13 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:19 PM

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Will the Types recieve armour changes so that they're actually pennable with standard shells? While these changes will have the desired effect of toning down the premium spam, the adverse effect is a major buff for Jap heavies and other heavies like it.

DaddysLittlePrincess #14 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:20 PM

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View PostAnna_Kalashnikova, on 20 December 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

E100 is still not able to pen a Type 5 at the front (exceptional highrolls and poorly angled armor + "regular" penroll + hitting the small box with 250 armor excluded). E100 will still make quite easy 530 dmg with HEAT.

 

=> Goldspam will continue and will be as at least as efficient as it used to be.

I think it will just encourage HE spam. If HE will do pretty much the same dmg as "special" ammo, but you don't need to aim, why would you pay more?



vuque #15 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:30 PM

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View PostAnna_Kalashnikova, on 20 December 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

I already asked in the german forum, but once again here:

 

Type 5 will not be able to penetrate the E100 with any Ammo (as long as E100 is angleling it's lfp; Ultra luck hits with HESH to the Viewing device on the top or the turret ring excluded -> .48 Accuracy). So Type 5 will not use "Special Shells" (HESH) anymore fighting an E100 frontally. HE deals ~200-300 dmg (high rolls and lucky weak spot hits excluded), Hesh will deal 175 less on average due to lower alpha (what about the splash radius btw.?).

 

=> Goldspam successfully removed

 

E100 is still not able to pen a Type 5 at the front (exceptional highrolls and poorly angled armor + "regular" penroll + hitting the small box with 250 armor excluded). E100 will still make quite easy 530 dmg with HEAT.

 

=> Goldspam will continue and will be as at least as efficient as it used to be.

 

 

Is this correct?

 

This is just the first test, everything is subject to change! As we announced we are working on the re-balance (buffs) for the E-100! However, thank you for sharing your feedback with us, please keep providing your opinion/feedback in order to help us! :great:

 

View PostFluffyRedFox, on 20 December 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

Will the Types recieve armour changes so that they're actually pennable with standard shells? While these changes will have the desired effect of toning down the premium spam, the adverse effect is a major buff for Jap heavies and other heavies like it.

 

I would like to refer to my post here, please have a look into it!



Denton_0451 #16 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:31 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 20 December 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

Will the Types recieve armour changes so that they're actually pennable with standard shells? While these changes will have the desired effect of toning down the premium spam, the adverse effect is a major buff for Jap heavies and other heavies like it.

 

According to this FAQ no armour changes or weakspot introductions are planned

cro001 #17 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:33 PM

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Comment reserved until I see new armor profiles.

EDIT: Also nice meme with 90mm guns doing 180 damage. :D 225 average damage on T-100. :D


Edited by cro001, 20 December 2018 - 04:34 PM.


Chibubibibro #18 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:35 PM

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I hope tanks like the IS-7 get a much needed shell capacity upgrade if this goes through.

Vojtech #19 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:40 PM

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Keep going the testing. I am really looking forward to see how it will functioning on the live server. I stand on the WG supporting side on this matter. I really get mad when someone goldspams me and have the "no need to aim" advantage against me. I think this change would really make simply better the game. On the other hand Type 5 with his 260mm+ thick week spot needs adjusted armor because his "week spot" is still close to be impenetrable with standard AP shells. This is also true for 286 v4 and Type 4.

chuao #20 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:46 PM

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Good news WG

 

I will keep the idea with rebalancing the standard/premium ammo (also lowering the cost of premium ammo , compared to what is now), but for every tank, not as a percent. And well armoured tanks who will be buffed, if they remain the same, i will nerf their rate of fire.






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