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Why am i losing all the time in jp 4 (t6 german td)

jp4 t6 german td lose

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k_zoli #1 Posted 31 December 2018 - 11:46 PM

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Good night everyone,

 

This is my first post, and am just curius what answers i get. First of all, my english is not good, so apologies in advance. Second, i am not a good player, not a really bad one either, my winrate is around 47-50%, with tanks i can play and like, it is around 50-55. but this is just a guess. The thing is, i bought the  jagdpanzer 4 tier 6 tand destroyer, played 10-30 games maybe, and lost 67%... the bottom today was 30% winrate in it. 

I get it i cant play it, but most of the time im doing passive scouting in a bush, and waiting for the enemy, when i see one i shoot, that is all, almost every time i am the last one to be killed. And i finish in the top 5 players in the team. So my question, why the hell am i losing all the time? Is this td cursed? To be in bad team? or is it godlike, so normally it wins a match alone, and the mm give me bad players? Or what? If it is 1 on 1 im a really bad player, but i have 14 teammates... oh and the enemy team annihilates us almost all the time, so if i where there in the dead section on the other team it would not make a difference they would win... 

Why is mm for this tank so bad? (one last thing, in one of my matches  i had about 200 dmg, and was 3. in the team...)

 

Edit: 29% winrate :D I cant believe this td...


Edited by k_zoli, 01 January 2019 - 12:37 AM.


SiliconSidewinder #2 Posted 01 January 2019 - 01:02 AM

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hey kzoli first of:

happy new year to you!

 

as for your question I do have my suspicions but the best would be if we could see how you actually play that tank?

=> do you have some replays you could upload and link here?

 

 



The_Salty_Kipper #3 Posted 01 January 2019 - 03:04 AM

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@K_zoli

 

My guess is that you are too 'passive' waiting too long to finally get a few damage shots in and you mange the top 5 because at the end of the game you can cause damage and destroy weaker tanks (already damaged etc) BUT because you don't actively try to win (move and help the team push a flank etc) then you lose so often.. 

 

Camping 90% of a Battle doesn't help your win rate! 



k_zoli #4 Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:06 AM

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Thanks for the advice, normally i dont camp, since i am to impatient for that, but i tought good camo, and nice view range is for sniping... This morning i tried to be more agressive, and guess what :D My first match was a lose, i did more dmg than i normally do in this td, me and my teammates were capturing the flag, but the enemy also did, and we lost. Second match also trying to push, spotted a few tanks, then died. we won the match but only left with 2-3 players on our side.

 

Im not compaining about the tank here, i dont have the top gun, maybe after some matches i will learn to play it. My problem is, that there are tanks, that i played many times worse than this, and still sometimes we could win with more then 10 members alive. That is not a good matchmaking in my opinion, but with this tank i am always on the losing side of these situations :D If i remember correctly my kv-2 and at-2 or at-8 had matches where i couldnt get to the frontline in time because we already won and i was to slow to get there. And this is what is strange, if mm is fair there should be times when my team should be good enough to win without me, but the matches i have in this tank expect me to be a pro otherwise my team loses :)

 

Ps.: Happy new year to you as well! Sorry but i dont have replays, im just a hobby tanker, on holidays i play, and once  in a year i play for a few weeks. :) And after a few weeks a losing marathon comes, i cant win with my tanks, and quit for a few months. 

 

Edit: My third match:

I dont know how to upload images, so i cant show you... but it was a lose again, i was number one with 1.6k dmg, 2 kill, and 7 enemy tanks survived, i pushed hard, spotted, and with the small gun i did this much dmg, still lost, i think i did a good match in this td for a noob, it shouldnt depend only on me :)

 

Edit2: My Fourth match:

By the time i got to the frontline with top speed, 4 of my teammates where dead... and 5 minutes later all of them including me where dead...

 

Edit3 (and last): My fifth match:

I tought it is going to be a good one, i did 800 dmg, 2 kills, and 550 support dmg, i got 2 medals? (i play in my own language, so dont know the english versions name) But still a lost match 4 enemy left, we died :) from 5 matches i lost 4. And it does not really matter how i play, the only way for me the turn the tables in these matches if i constantly kill 6-7 tanks that always remains in the enemy team, but i usally got 2 kills, so i need to kill 8-9 tanks to win the game for my team... I know there are more variables, if i kill 3 then, the tird wont kill my teammates they have better chances, but hey my stats are not good, my jp 4 stats are not good what does wot expect me to do?

 

Edit4 (just to defend jp 4 a little):

Maybe the holiday is the problem, i dont know, played with my kv2 and lost... did 2k dmg, 400support dmg, and killed 4 tanks, all of them one shot, exept the tiger, that was 2. My point is, it does not matter how good i am,holidays i cant win... should i wipe out the whole enemy team alone to win? I will take a break from wot for a while, since it is not fun anymore... 5 lose from 6 games... And i think i wasnt an absolute noob in these 6 matches, and even if i where, with fair mm the enemy team should have an equally noob on there side.

 


Edited by k_zoli, 01 January 2019 - 11:11 AM.


RockyRoller #5 Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:31 AM

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Win rates are 100% down to the team you are in regardless of what others tell you. You can't win the world cup when your in the club from the pub.

 

But you can improve that stacked odds against you and that team by increasing the parts of the tank you own with crew, equipment and camo equipment. This will improve your damage over time regardless of your style of play.

But if you have a team where the majority are only there to boost damage done, they won't win as  they will never take the risks to break a front and capture the camp, or kill the defenders line or even support you when you seize the moment.

 

Last step to improve your personal odds you need to spend a bit of time learning the maps, watching games and then exploiting weaknesses of the other team.

 

I quite like Mr Kellerman's YT videos for 'no [edited]'tm comments when it  comes to this topic



Col_Potter #6 Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

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HI there

 

I have a similar problem with my Centurions.

 

I played the normal Centurion quite effectively with Winrates around 50% in the unbuffed condition. Sold it because i didn't find it too interesting.

Then WG released The Primo Victoria and the RAAC centurions. Which are basically the same centurions with updated (aka buffed) Stats. So i thought:

Relatively cheap ammo + constant damageoutput + buffs = nice income + plus crewtraining +fun......wrong. I cant even get them to 50%, and i dont have too many tanks i struggle with that.

 

Same problem with Panther 8.8 and the Mutz.

Mutz is better in nearly everything i can think of except DPM.... I Play the shitty panther alot better than the quite good Yogi-Bear.....

 

Or STa-1 and 2: After buff the sta-2 is marginally better then the techtree variant, but winrates for me are worse by the small amount of 30% !

And now iam not motivated by the Type 61. Its better everywhere than STa-1 and has nearly the same MM but i suck with it. Hardcore....

 

I may have found a solution, but thats a case for tinfoil-hat-lovers: I have the impression that some tanks get bad RNG on some days others not. If you find yourself missing easy shots 10 times in a row ( I had that once with Challnger lately) or bounce on the sidearmor of a RHM waffles (D10T gun at about 50 m Distance!!) ... play some other vehicle for the rest of the day or change to server 2. That seems to reroll your RNG patter at least a little.

Try for yourself. If it works good if it doesn't it was worth a try.

 

Tipp: Many players consider the long 75mm gun better than the 8.8mm. I found myself prefer the 8.8, because on that vehicle they did nearly remove 2 of the worst fails this gun has: BAD aimtime and lousy softstats.

Yes it is not the most accurate gun and its pen is surprising lackluster, but high DPM and some alpha are a good combo against semi soft targets. For everyting else there is the 2 key. ( i wish i could use that when i was playing The JPZ4).

 

Good luck. to all of you

 

 

Edit: I should maybe not post on new year mornings...


Edited by Col_Potter, 01 January 2019 - 11:52 AM.


_The_Dane_ #7 Posted 01 January 2019 - 12:49 PM

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Seeing you only played 20 matches in the JP you cant really evaluate it yet since only 2-3 wins will tip it into your standard winrate.

One problem might be your playing to many tanks (123 :ohmy:) and in that process have to many grinds with bad crews.

Stock grinds with low skilled crew will always be a pita and give lower winrates in the beginning. 

(Unless ofc you Free XP your tanks and use gold to retrain you crews.)

 

And no matter which tank or how skilled we are we cant win if we get a bad "draw" from WG(Putting on my tinfoilhat now so WG dont spot me)
Sometimes it feels like we are setup to loose no matter what we do.

 



Bordhaw #8 Posted 01 January 2019 - 01:37 PM

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View Postk_zoli, on 31 December 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

Good night everyone,

 

This is my first post, and am just curius what answers i get. First of all, my english is not good, so apologies in advance. Second, i am not a good player, not a really bad one either, my winrate is around 47-50%, with tanks i can play and like, it is around 50-55. but this is just a guess. The thing is, i bought the  jagdpanzer 4 tier 6 tand destroyer, played 10-30 games maybe, and lost 67%... the bottom today was 30% winrate in it. 

I get it i cant play it, but most of the time im doing passive scouting in a bush, and waiting for the enemy, when i see one i shoot, that is all, almost every time i am the last one to be killed. And i finish in the top 5 players in the team. So my question, why the hell am i losing all the time? Is this td cursed? To be in bad team? or is it godlike, so normally it wins a match alone, and the mm give me bad players? Or what? If it is 1 on 1 im a really bad player, but i have 14 teammates... oh and the enemy team annihilates us almost all the time, so if i where there in the dead section on the other team it would not make a difference they would win... 

Why is mm for this tank so bad? (one last thing, in one of my matches  i had about 200 dmg, and was 3. in the team...)

 

Edit: 29% winrate :D I cant believe this td...

 

What is your crew like?

What equipment are you using?

 



k_zoli #9 Posted 01 January 2019 - 01:41 PM

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It is true I played only 20 matches, but 80% i played only with this td. I know if i swap tanks it is hard to focus on one, and it is true i shouldnt evaluate from 20 matches, t7 french light amx had 73% winrate after 10 matches, now it has about 55%. Still i dont think it is a bad tank (jp4), it is fun to play it, good camo and good view range, really fun, if the rest of the team wouldnt die so fast, it would be much more fun. I agree with Col_Potter, maybe tomorrow i will win many times in a row, with the same performance. If my research points would not depend on win or lose i wouldnt care about it.

 

Edit: To Bordhaw:

camonet, binoculars, and dont know the english name for it, the binoculars that gives you plus viewrange when you are stationary

crew is 84%, exept for commander, she is 100% with bia, sixth sense, and the skill that gives you extra view range

everything is maxed, exept, the gun, it is the second 75mm


Edited by k_zoli, 01 January 2019 - 01:45 PM.


iuytr #10 Posted 01 January 2019 - 07:55 PM

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View PostRockyRoller, on 01 January 2019 - 11:31 AM, said:

Win rates are 100% down to the team you are in regardless of what others tell you. 

 

This!

 

Look at my stats on the German TDs, all broadly similar except for win rate which is chaotic. All the stuff about win rates is the biggest con in WOT, and is only relevant for the mad people who play billions of battles.

 

Posted Image


Edited by iuytr, 01 January 2019 - 07:56 PM.


captainpigg #11 Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:29 PM

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View Postiuytr, on 01 January 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

This!

 

Look at my stats on the German TDs, all broadly similar except for win rate which is chaotic. All the stuff about win rates is the biggest con in WOT, and is only relevant for the mad people who play billions of battles.

 

Posted Image

 

 Ok I looked at your stats, you simply don't do enough dpg (or spot enough) to deserve a better wr%.



k_zoli #12 Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:20 PM

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I tought a few matches could not harm anything... i was wrong... Dont know how many matches i played, after the 6 matches (from my team lost 5 :D ) but my winrate was about 23%... But the last match i played was a win!!!!!!!! 1,1k dmg, 800 support dmg, and 4 kills, so if i always kill almost third of the enemy then, my team can win :D 

 

ps.: it was just luck... we almost lost :D And my winrate went to 31%



iuytr #13 Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:35 PM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 01 January 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

 

 Ok I looked at your stats, you simply don't do enough dpg (or spot enough) to deserve a better wr%.

 

That's not the point I was making :facepalm: but never mind.

In_Flames90 #14 Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:59 AM

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The problem I find with most casemate TDs is that they don't really have a high carry potential and are usually very map dependant as well.
If things start to go sour I'd rather be in a Skorpion G than a JPanther II, in most cases.
Also positioning is key to influence battles. 1 example that comes to mind: Sand River, I like to drive K-line in my lights and mediums and usually you'll run into a fair share of tanks there, but since most TD's are spread around F1 and H0 they are too far away to actually support you there. Also, they will only get shots at the heavies down in the middle if their own heavies are holding back or the enemy kills them and pushes through. If your heavies just pushes them back you'll not get shots.
I've seen so many games where TDs on Sand River have 0dmg wins or 3k losses.



The_Salty_Kipper #15 Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:40 AM

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View PostIn_Flames90, on 02 January 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

The problem I find with most casemate TDs is that they don't really have a high carry potential and are usually very map dependant as well.
If things start to go sour I'd rather be in a Skorpion G than a JPanther II, in most cases.
Also positioning is key to influence battles. 1 example that comes to mind: Sand River, I like to drive K-line in my lights and mediums and usually you'll run into a fair share of tanks there, but since most TD's are spread around F1 and H0 they are too far away to actually support you there. Also, they will only get shots at the heavies down in the middle if their own heavies are holding back or the enemy kills them and pushes through. If your heavies just pushes them back you'll not get shots.
I've seen so many games where TDs on Sand River have 0dmg wins or 3k losses.
 

 

Totally agree with this, I have noticed that 'most' TD players sit in their 'favourite' position and just wait for an opportunity, and they don't actively support their team mates, with the SU-103PM being fairly mobile, it should be easier for them to move into a better position. Too many times I have defended a HT position only to be over-run because I didn't have TD support, which is very frustrating. 

 

The other problem is the last tanks stand, whereas the 'hidden' TDs make it almost impossible to cap or kill all because you no longer have the hit points to engage, and this is even worse, players who have sat there doing almost nothing for 90% of the game then 'mop' up and feel that they have played well etc. 

 

What I don't get is that if SPGs are to counter 'camping' why don't they have an artillery shell (like in Frontline) where they can spot enemies (deal no damage but spot over a wide area) with a long reload and a short 10s spot duration, it will alleviate at lot of stress and force TD players to become more active.

 

The way a lot of maps are formed, there are definite 'no go' areas due to TD coverage,  which is ok for map denial but crap for gameplay, like Abbey, I no longer go down the lake road, it is just too beset with hidden TDs, the centre buildings offer no cover for HTs so you are 'forced' to go the HT alley. 

 



k_zoli #16 Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:48 PM

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You all have some points that is true, and i dont want to sound like im am the perfect player, but i dont camp on one spot. I tried many things, for example, pressing forward, and spotting for my teammates, and of course killing. This way it is certain that they will kill me eventually, but i get dmg, and help my teammates. Even so, today i lost at least 3-4 times and won maybe once. Everyone can talk about skill, and how you should play, it wont change the fact, that in a 15 members team, the match should not depend on one player (not always that is). Okay there are situations where one member can change the outcome, what im trying to say that the mm should pick players near the same level, wich means that there should be 50-50% chance to win for each team. To lose 9 from 10 matches means that the mm is not good with this tank, and my statistics. For example there is my kv-2, if i have a bad day, im in the first 3 to die... it is not a good thing, but still 50% winrate, i am not better on any of my tanks. My point is that my skills are equally bad (or good, it depends on viewpoint :D) in every tank :D So i should had similar winrate, not like this :D

 

BTW, in one of my matches there was a t8 light, lt-xxx dont know the name, 9 kills... he was last guy with a 112 with 100% hp (the LT had about 34%) and the 112 win only by one shot, if the lt could fire one last time, we would have lost the match. In my opinion this means, the dude in the LT was very skilled compared to others in this match, so mm put an op player in the match wich almost decided the outcome.



Homer_J #17 Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:41 PM

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View PostRockyRoller, on 01 January 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

Win rates are 100% down to the team you are in regardless of what others tell you. You can't win the world cup when your in the club from the pub.

Winning an individual battle is largely down to the team you are given.

 

Your win rate over 10 battles will be heavily influenced by the random teams you are given.

 

After 30 or 40 where OP is it's still heavily influenced by luck.

 

But this can go either way, you get lucky and unlucky, and as has been proved elsewhere on this forum you eventually get as much good luck as bad luck so any difference between (if we discard draws) 50% and your win rate is down to how you played.

 

k_zoli - upload some replays to wotreplays.eu and someone will take a look.  But the fact that you were capping while the other team was capping suggests you don't have good map awareness.  If the enemy is getting close to your cap you should be going back, not trying to get into a cap race.



geoff99 #18 Posted 03 January 2019 - 06:54 PM

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View PostRockyRoller, on 01 January 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

Win rates are 100% down to the team you are in regardless of what others tell you. You can't win the world cup when your in the club from the pub.

 

View Postiuytr, on 01 January 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

 All the stuff about win rates is the biggest con in WOT, and is only relevant for the mad people who play billions of battles.

 

There are some games you're always going to lose, but there are lots that you can have a big impact on if you're skilful or knowledgeable. Watch a good streamer, if you're not convinced. And you won't need to watch them play billions of battles, just a few.

 

 



Infryndiira #19 Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:45 PM

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I find myself suffering from a lower average win rate in tank destroyers than with other classes myself, barring a few exceptions (hello FV 4005 Stage II!) A lot of the tanks "bait" you to be more passive, often to the detriment of the overall result; but it's more often than not that you run into bad teams. There's a golden line between the two styles, and you need to actively experiment to see what suits you.

SiliconSidewinder #20 Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:04 PM

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View PostInfryndiira, on 03 January 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

I find myself suffering from a lower average win rate in tank destroyers than with other classes myself, barring a few exceptions (hello FV 4005 Stage II!) A lot of the tanks "bait" you to be more passive, often to the detriment of the overall result; but it's more often than not that you run into bad teams. There's a golden line between the two styles, and you need to actively experiment to see what suits you.

 

 

the main problem with tank destroyers is that even the best td play can easily be nullified by your own team.

Which then often forces one to decide between playing against the own tank or against the team.






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