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High Explosive ammo needs to be reworked


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Murro_the_One #1 Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:51 PM

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first of all i think, outside of guns which fire HE as primary, there is no incentive to shoot HE in this game.

Even for those *edited*, you 20% hit gun or tracks and do even less dmg than you would do with AP

 

HE tanks in this game are nasty disease which in real world is treated with chemotherapy.

There is no skill in playing Japanese super-armored tanks. The gameplay this HE spam promotes is so toxic, that only playing arty trumphs that.

Im on the way to o-ho but not having drive to grind such stupid line of tanks

 

now to the noobs.

i just have been yoloed by recent addition to balanced tanks, is-3a. he had HE loadout. He penned one, rest didnt. He fuked up my tank though, not sure if that was the intention but it is not first time seeing clueless people shooting HE on others.

 

i think there is place for some alternative to AP rounds, but what currently is in game is toxic and lowering skill level to play the game to the rock bottom (funny though i see lot of skilled players play type's 4/5...not shure what is the reason, maybe missions?)

 

despite all this, i thing t49 is good tank with much different approach tothe gameplay than the competition and HE/HEAT standard ammo selection is really refreshing to use.

 

wont talk about arty here, if they removed it tomorrow, i would not cry


Edited by NickMustaine, 03 January 2019 - 07:40 PM.
Inappropriate remarks


Homer_J #2 Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:19 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 02 January 2019 - 04:51 PM, said:

 

despite all this, i thing t49 is good tank with much different approach tothe gameplay than the competition and HE/HEAT standard ammo selection is really refreshing to use.

 

And I think it's a toxic abomination and WG should have removed it's derp as they intended.  It's way more annoying than arty.

Balc0ra #3 Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:33 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 02 January 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

first of all i think, outside of guns which fire HE as primary, there is no incentive to shoot HE in this game.

Even for those *edited*, you 20% hit gun or tracks and do even less dmg than you would do with AP

 

On a HT vs other HT's? Sure, as that's pointless more or less all the time. Unless you ran out of gold ammo, and your AP pen has a zero % chance to pen even on a high roll vs the targets "weak spot". Like the IS-6 vs the Type 4. That don't even has a good chance with gold ammo. Then why not HE? Some damage is better then no damage and getting rolled over, and at the same time cripple his tank or force a repair kit use. 

 

But on some lights vs other lights etc? I had so many 2K damage + games with full HE on the new French prem light that it was silly. Or like the German Bulldog or even the Conq vs paper lights or meds. As they have high HE pen. If you have less then 50 like most do. Then no.. not really a point vs even other lights. Then it's just good if you have to reset cap. But with 75 or even 102 mm HE pen. Then definitely. Those are the guns I load up more of them on. 



Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:41 PM

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HE is pretty useless as it is unless it is either high penetration (French Cars) or large calibre (derps).

And imo, I wouldn't mind if they remain pretty useless.

Murro

 There is no skill in playing Japanese super-armored tanks.

 And I wouldn't mind proving you wrong in training rooms.

Someone who has no idea how to use HE will invariably lose to someone who does.



Murro_the_One #5 Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:43 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 January 2019 - 06:19 PM, said:

 

And I think it's a toxic abomination and WG should have removed it's derp as they intended.  It's way more annoying than arty.

you cant be serious comparing t49 to arty....

View PostBalc0ra, on 02 January 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

 

On a HT vs other HT's? Sure, as that's pointless more or less all the time. Unless you ran out of gold ammo, and your AP pen has a zero % chance to pen even on a high roll vs the targets "weak spot". Like the IS-6 vs the Type 4. That don't even has a good chance with gold ammo. Then why not HE? Some damage is better then no damage and getting rolled over, and at the same time cripple his tank or force a repair kit use. 

 

But on some lights vs other lights etc? I had so many 2K damage + games with full HE on the new French prem light that it was silly. Or like the German Bulldog or even the Conq vs paper lights or meds. As they have high HE pen. If you have less then 50 like most do. Then no.. not really a point vs even other lights. Then it's just good if you have to reset cap. But with 75 or even 102 mm HE pen. Then definitely. Those are the guns I load up more of them on. 

what i wanted to say that HE spam does not bring anything diverse to the gameplay.

just paper tanks who haven o chance to bounce AP rounds get screwed even harder if one loads HE

 

 

17:44 Added after 0 minutes

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 02 January 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

HE is pretty useless as it is unless it is either high penetration (French Cars) or large calibre (derps).

And imo, I wouldn't mind if they remain pretty useless.

 And I wouldn't mind proving you wrong in training rooms.

Someone who has no idea how to use HE will invariably lose to someone who does.

lol, HE expert :)

jack_timber #6 Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:32 PM

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Yes bring back AP to arty, sick of having 13m radius splash.

I want to penetrate!



panter22 #7 Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:36 PM

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why you now haw many russian tankers and japan's tankers you will anger with this maybe 80% and the world will explode 

Homer_J #8 Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:45 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 02 January 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

you cant be serious comparing t49 to arty....

 

Why not.

 

I can predict when I'm going to be hit by arty with about 99% accuracy and generally at least mitigate it's effect.

 

One of those little troll tanks will zip in behind me and take out half my modules and crew leaving me with a fraction of my hitpoints then leave before I can reply.  Even worse when they are camping some bush somewhere when I'm trying to actively push a flank.

 

Light tanks should have pew pew guns.



gpalsson #9 Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:05 PM

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HE is fine, but remove FV4002, arty and the retarded Japanese heavy tanks.

Edited by gpalsson, 02 January 2019 - 08:05 PM.


Dava_117 #10 Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:55 PM

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HE are usually good in game. In 105mm and bigger I allways load some HE for cap reset or to splash roofs on hulldown tanks. 

The only problematic HE are, IMO:

-artys because of far too much splash

-HESH because are badly modelled and would need a rework

-Type4/5 derp because it has far to much alpha on both shells and the premium shell is pure P2W.

 

And arty and Type5 problems can be solved changing the platform or making spall liner more effective.



Nishi_Kinuyo #11 Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:23 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 02 January 2019 - 08:55 PM, said:

-Type4/5 derp because it has far to much alpha on both shells and the premium shell is pure P2W.

Is already being worked on.

Dava_117

 -HESH because are badly modelled and would need a rework

 By giving it this problem instead for the premium shell.



conductiv #12 Posted 03 January 2019 - 06:05 AM

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you generally need decent damage or decent penetration to use HE, if it's the low penetration high damage HE (the old HE as used by the majority of german, soviet and US tanks) you need about 400 damage (105mm or above) to scratch the paintwork of any heavily armored tank, but its penetration would still be too low to reliably penetrate a light vehicle (usually about 60-70mm) only really good for taking down really low HP targets or resetting a cap. HE shells that deal less then 400 damage are likely to be completely absorbed by armor you cannot already overmatch

 

recent additions have added a number of "new style HE" this HE acts like the mid caliber HESH as used by the british tech tree and has high damage with moderate penetration, while still godawful against armored targets these shells can actually punch a decent hole in lightly armored tanks like the batmobiles, provided you don't hit tracks. personally I like these shells as it makes them useful against the high volume of paper tanks with massive guns (or autoloaders) that like to tank on their HP when rushing me. I'd like to see this shell type more often on mid caliber ammo.

 

and then there are the 150mm+ guns HE, these guns tend to deal 900 or above in HE damage and will have 80+ pen, these shells deal enough HE damage that a hit will deal a notable amount of damage on a non-penetration...and can wreck lightly armored vehicles when they do penetrate the target. provided the weapon is clunky and the HE damage is not too extreme, they are generally fine. however tanks like the type5 use this caliber with up to 1400 damage per shot...that is a tad too high for the type of ammo, on top of the extreme armor of the platform using the gun. overall I see this type of shell as the cheap solution against hull down monsters or tanks that have no frontal weakness, the weapon is supposed to sacrifice DPM to deal damage against these types of threats, and the platform is dedicated to the weapon system. 

 

SPG's are a different can of worms, as this vehicle class plays completely different from the other tank classes that use HE/HESH



Mav75 #13 Posted 03 January 2019 - 07:48 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 02 January 2019 - 09:05 PM, said:

HE is fine, but remove FV4002, arty and the retarded Japanese heavy tanks.

 

I think you mean the FV4005, the British naming system is getting almost as confusing as the Soviet Objects.

The_Salty_Kipper #14 Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:00 AM

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As a runner of mainly British tanks, I can offer that in some instances High Tier MTs / HTs ONLY fire HE against me, and they manage to deal between 200-300HP per shell, (in the case of Japanese HTs even more) and it is something that seems to be quite new. 

 

Personally I feel quite sad that WG have taken away what used to be the @British@ way, with HE almost being the same as HESH (I know in-game they seem to act the same) which is thoroughly disappointing.

 

HESH should be re-worked to deal more 'fire' damage and increased crew damage, as a greater deterrent. As it is, the main thing is high alpha, no-body is worried about a 240HP alpha shell but increase that to 390 and it makes players back off quickly. I would feel that the Brits (especially the MTs) should have a greater capacity to incapacitate enemies with HESH rounds as standard, as part of their traits.

 

If every tank is just as effective with HE, it takes that away, and removes the diversity this game so eagerly needs.   



SIR_DIMITRIOS #15 Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:44 AM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 02 January 2019 - 04:51 PM, said:

first of all i think, outside of guns which fire HE as primary, there is no incentive to shoot HE in this game.

Even for those paper shitts, you 20% hit gun or tracks and do even less dmg than you would do with AP

 

HE tanks in this game are nasty disease which in real world is treated with chemotherapy.

There is no skill in playing Japanese super-armored tanks. The gameplay this HE spam promotes is so toxic, that only playing arty trumphs that.

Im on the way to o-ho but not having drive to grind such stupid line of tanks

 

now to the noobs.

i just have been yoloed by recent addition to balanced tanks, is-3a. he had HE loadout. He penned one, rest didnt. He fuked up my tank though, not sure if that was the intention but it is not first time seeing clueless people shooting HE on others.

 

i think there is place for some alternative to AP rounds, but what currently is in game is toxic and lowering skill level to play the game to the rock bottom (funny though i see lot of skilled players play type's 4/5...not shure what is the reason, maybe missions?)

 

despite all this, i thing t49 is good tank with much different approach tothe gameplay than the competition and HE/HEAT standard ammo selection is really refreshing to use.

 

wont talk about arty here, if they removed it tomorrow, i would not cry

 

i have the solution remove all shells and replaced with potatoes..............problem solved.............. OMG STOP CRY FOR EVERTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:19 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 January 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

 

And I think it's a toxic abomination and WG should have removed it's derp as they intended.  It's way more annoying than arty.

 

Nah. At least you generally tend to see a T49 attack coming so can counter it simply by showing him your front and sides(unless completely paper) and he will most likely either miss while trying to get on your rear but will more often just track you and do 200 dmg all while you are continually shooting him so you'll generally trade much much better, whereas with arty you can't see them so you have no idea they have decided to target you and are aiming at you until you actually get smashed and you can't counter them or shoot them back. 

 

I played the derp T49 recently and can say it's just for lols really and isn't an effective weapon overall. I thought it was going to be like having a Type4 gun strapped onto a rocket which sounds great but it's not that and you should fear an encounter with a T49 with it's stock gun a lot more which will dpm a lot of tank to death. I do shoot some tanks for over 900 alpha which is amazing but over the course of the battle and battles, the stock gun would have accumulated way more damage and kills while doing it reliably so, I think it's fear factor comes from players remembering that 1 or 2 battles in which a T49 derped them for 900 but they forget the many more battles in which a derp T49 targeted them but failed horribly.



gpalsson #17 Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:45 AM

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View PostMav75, on 03 January 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

 

I think you mean the FV4005, the British naming system is getting almost as confusing as the Soviet Objects.

 

Yes, you are right :)

Murro_the_One #18 Posted 03 January 2019 - 01:09 PM

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what i meant about this is some rework of ammo types based on the example of wows for example.

but not copy it, just get inspired a bit.

 

they have AP and HE but AP is not ultimate ammo choice. if you shoot weak armor, AP will overpenetrate and do very little damage. thaa feature should be entirely copied into WoT so it wont make sense to pay2win 420 pen ammo and shoot enything. you would think twice if you did that and got 300 dmg in return.



DorsVenabiIi #19 Posted 03 January 2019 - 01:16 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 January 2019 - 06:19 PM, said:

 

And I think it's a toxic abomination and WG should have removed it's derp as they intended.  It's way more annoying than arty.

 

I agree it's a toxic tank, derp should be removed.

Homer_J #20 Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 03 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

Nah. At least you generally tend to see a T49 attack coming so can counter it simply by showing him your front and sides(unless completely paper) and he will most likely either miss while trying to get on your rear but will more often just track you and do 200 dmg all while you are continually shooting him so you'll generally trade much much better, whereas with arty you can't see them so you have no idea they have decided to target you and are aiming at you until you actually get smashed and you can't counter them or shoot them back. 

 

I played the derp T49 recently and can say it's just for lols really and isn't an effective weapon overall.

 

When I get hit by arty it's always 2 seconds after I've thought I'm making myself a target here, time to move. 

 

When a T49 gets me I don't see it coming.  OK, I should know there is one but usually they appear behind me when I have what I think is backup but turns out to be someone collecting dandelions.  Or they are in a bush which is completely useless for spotting and too far forward for a TD to be using for an ambush.

 

And yes, I know it's very hit and miss.  I tried it and went back to the pew pew gun for reliability but that doesn't make it any better.






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