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Arad – A Non-Corridor City Map Proposal (With Pictures And Minimap)!

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IntruderFI #41 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:08 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 03 January 2019 - 11:15 PM, said:

Hello everyone (and a happy new year)!

 

Today I’m going to present you something that I’ve been working on for quite some time (2 months of thinking & searching). It’s nothing else than what the title says: The Arad Map Proposal – A Non-Corridor City Map Proposal (With Pictures) – set in the early-mid 1970s era (just like Minsk) and offering interesting and unseen gameplay options for a city map (at least as of now, 3rd January 2019 – patch 1.3).

 

Without further ado, let’s get started with a pinch of history:

 

Why This City?

 

Now onto the layout itself:

 

Tidbits (props, buildings, feeling & atmosphere of the map):

Jump to gameplay if you're not interested in any of the buildings and props I propose for the map.

WARNING VERY LONG!

 

And now that you got the understanding on what is what, let's finally get to the specific tactics, spawn points and bases for each gamemode:

 

 

And to have a nice melodious end, here's the soundtrack proposal:

Communist content incoming

 

Thank you for reading! I hope you've found it interesting and I'm really eager to see what you all think of it! I may have envisioned it completly wrong and made it look good only in my mind or I may have actually envisioned something actually good or very good, I'll let you decide in the comments! I'd love to see suggestions and opinions on the overall balance of the map! I'm surprised there are no other map proposals such as mine, with details and illustrations and I hope this inspires some of you to do your own proposals! The more proposals we see, be them goor or bad, the more we learn about map design and learn to provide useful feedback to WG to get better quality maps in the long run!

 

P.S.: I say it again, if you're good at making illustrations such as mine and wish to help, then feel free to contact me and do a teamup to get even better proposals in the following weeks (or months, depending on how busy I am). :P

 

P.P.S.: If you're just wondering, the writing of this article took me 7 hours.

 

EDIT: Added more pictures in the tidbits section, corrected a handful of grammar mistakes and added the soundtrack proposal in a new spoiler at the end.

 

We already have that map, its called Ruinberg

grizly1973 #42 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:10 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 04 January 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:

 

I can't say as such because the likelihood of such a thing is remote based on how often a map will be reworked over the course of its development and of course the subsequent issue on pay, royalties and other such things. But that's not to say it's impossible, just I do not see it happening realistically (in all honesty) because of the complexity of the matter. But I will pass on the awesome work regardless. 

 

Pass the work on... meaning what, to the Minsk design team? And they decide what happens to it, or what? I would like to get to do some kind of videoconference (in english) to explain what I envision through this map. Also, note that this is not even my most original and crazy proposal I have on my mind. I have a special desert Grand Battles map proposal that will put the new graphics capacity of the new EnCore version to good use. And no, it's not sandstorms. It's somethinng MUCH MORE intense! I'm not sure what to do now, though... make a proposal and write it here or send it directly to the Minsk design team via e-mail or something to keep it a surprise for the players. I expect more mixed opinions on this one though, because it will surely cause a little bit of controversy. It's some alternate history stuff and so maybe it's not even fitting for the game. I'd like to see what eekeeboo advises me to do from here. :)
17:11 Added after 1 minute

View PostLaiskamato, on 04 January 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

 

We already have that map, its called Ruinberg

 

PLEASE, PLEASE EDIT YOUR REPLY AND CUT THE WHOLE QUOTE OUT OF IT!

eekeeboo #43 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:13 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 04 January 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

Pass the work on... meaning what, to the Minsk design team? And they decide what happens to it, or what? I would like to get to do some kind of videoconference (in english) to explain what I envision through this map. Also, note that this is not even my most original and crazy proposal I have on my mind. I have a special desert Grand Battles map proposal that will put the new graphics capacity of the new EnCore version to good use. And no, it's not sandstorms. It's somethinng MUCH MORE intense! I'm not sure what to do now, though... make a proposal and write it here or send it directly to the Minsk design team via e-mail or something to keep it a surprise for the players. I expect more mixed opinions on this one though, because it will surely cause a little bit of controversy. It's some alternate history stuff and so maybe it's not even fitting for the game. I'd like to see what eekeeboo advises me to do from here. :)
17:11 Added after 1 minute

 

PLEASE, PLEASE EDIT YOUR REPLY AND CUT THE WHOLE QUOTE OUT OF IT!

 

The only thing I can do is pass on the idea of concept to my boss who will then make a decision, so on and so forth all the way until the team responsible for map design and such. 

 

You will not be able to email your map to the team directly (for obvious reasons). Whereas feel free to continue to make your suggestions, but as I mentioned, the likelihood of these concepts and plans being adopted is highly minimal and would need careful analysis and consideration over so many factors. 



grizly1973 #44 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:16 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 04 January 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

 

Thank-you, working on it and hope to continue to keep up the communication :) 

 

Please try to support it as much as you can. Make a 16 year old's dream come true. I play the game since 2013. Since I was 11 years old. And I have to say it really had an impact on the way I think in daily life and the way my personality evolved (and*edited*stats until 2016 because I played 10k battles without knowing what I'm doing). All in all, this game really helped me become the person I am at the moment. I have to thank WG for this. And, in order to feel like I thank WG enough, I really want to help WG as much as their product helped me. I want to have a little impact on the shape the game takes in the future. Just as much of an impact as the game had on me and on who I am. So, I say it again, thank you WG, and thank you WoT Forums for the smiles I get to have when I get to see that you are content with my creation.

 

Jeez that was emotional.


Edited by NickMustaine, 04 January 2019 - 08:15 PM.
Inappropriate remarks


IntruderFI #45 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:18 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 04 January 2019 - 08:10 PM, said:

 

PLEASE, PLEASE EDIT YOUR REPLY AND CUT THE WHOLE QUOTE OUT OF IT!

 

Yelling at me accomplishes nothing, even if you try to be polite at the start.

Plus my opinion stands, look at the aerial view of your concept then look at Ruinberg minimap.

Also if you want more constructive feedback, we sure don't need an other corridoor citymap in this game, thank you very much.



grizly1973 #46 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View PostLaiskamato, on 04 January 2019 - 07:18 PM, said:

 

Yelling at me accomplishes nothing, even if you try to be polite at the start.

Plus my opinion stands, look at the aerial view of your concept then look at Ruinberg minimap.

Also if you want more constructive feedback, we sure don't need an other corridoor citymap in this game, thank you very much.

 

I didn't say your opinion was invalid. I just asked you to cut the quote because the spoilers are all open and can't be closed.

I see the similarities with Ruinberg, but keep in mind that distances here are bigger and that lines of fire are shorter due to the abundance of cover. The only flank-to-flank crossfires are in between the train station and the eastern flank, from under the bridge, and from under the other passage beneath the bridge, southern to the big one. (See where the road enters the north of the south-eastern city block, right after the slightly curved bridgehead)

Considering what I have just mentioned in my reply, I can safely conclude that this is not a corridor map.

Btw you can't yell through text, just saying.

17:28 Added after 2 minutes

View Postshikaka9, on 04 January 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

... And you forgot to show on the map where you live :trollface:

 

I live relatively close to this area. ~2 km west of the depicted place.
17:31 Added after 5 minutes

View PostseXikanac, on 04 January 2019 - 05:36 PM, said:

 

View PostPabloGee, on 04 January 2019 - 05:52 PM, said:

WG Hire him please 

 

I'm only 16, sadly. But I'd love to cooperate with WG on not only maps, but things such as events, tank branches, new tech trees, arty rebalance and customization. Everything, pretty much. That's highly improbable to happen, but it's not illegal to dream, you know. ;)
17:37 Added after 11 minutes

View Posteekeeboo, on 04 January 2019 - 07:13 PM, said:

 

The only thing I can do is pass on the idea of concept to my boss who will then make a decision, so on and so forth all the way until the team responsible for map design and such. 

 

You will not be able to email your map to the team directly (for obvious reasons). Whereas feel free to continue to make your suggestions, but as I mentioned, the likelihood of these concepts and plans being adopted is highly minimal and would need careful analysis and consideration over so many factors. 

 

Oh. Ok.

Then just keep the communication up. I'd like to see how far it gets. Based on where it fails and gets rejected (still hope it doesen't), I will adjust my future proposals.

But what could make it get rejected, though?

I said above that I don't need any royalty money and I'm willing to sign papers with WG regarding that if we get all the way to that point.

There aren't any copyrighted "things" in my map. All the factory buildings (the ones that still exist) were privatized and can't really do anything if they get depicted in the times they were state-owned. They are now all parts of foreign groups, but back then they were part of the Romanian industrial state system.

What would be needed though is a specialized team actually physically sent to Arad to get pictures and 3D-map everything of interest. I know that you can legally take pictures anywhere with a written permission from the owner of private property 9such as the train station and factories), but I have no idea if there are any taxes for 3D-mapping.

 

Please provide this info alongside the proposal itself (if you haven't sent it to your boss yet). Thank you for everything you do for the EU community! :medal:

 

Also, while we're at sending stuff higher up the hierarchy, would you please take a look at my other proposals? They could be worthy of seeing by the higher-ups:

A few options for new bond-only vehicles: http://forum.worldof...9#entry16487449

And my arty re-rebalance proposal (mixed feelings on this one, because people don't like it when someone talks of nerfing their arty): http://forum.worldof...8#entry16432018

 


Edited by grizly1973, 04 January 2019 - 06:50 PM.


kubawt112 #47 Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:31 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 04 January 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

 

Thank you for your kind comments. I've copied all the text in a Word Document (it simplay crashed the first time I tried to to the large amount of text and pictures :facepalm:).

 

Now, I'd like to discuss your points and help get a better understanding ov the situation.

1. Good point, indeed. There's a very well-defined heavy area and a very well-defined medium area on this map. The difference is that if tanks support each other, they could prosper in the areas not designated for them too. This is indeed possible in the current map meta, but it happen less than once in 100 battles. Regarding the "radicalism" of the map, and the interest of WG and the players, let me give you my point: as you may know, the players are currently discontent with the most recent maps (Minsk and Empire's Border). This wasn't really a problem for WG, because in the end it's money that drives this whole game, not player satisfaction. The players asking for more diverse maps weren't really that relevant for WG, from the economical point of view. HOWEVER, considering the current state of the game, WG should note that the only way they can get their money from the game at this point is through player satisfaction. Many players have quit or still play, but don't put money into the game anymore. That should make WG realise that the voice of the players has to be listened if they want to remain in business for another 10-maybe even 30 years (or even more, you never know). Concluding this point, WG should become interested in general factors that increase player satisfaction, such as maps, for example. Such as this map, if you consider that it's very well received (until now, at least).

2. Yes, my map does that very efficiently.

3. The map offers players only 2 main paths if you look closely. The center of the map is incorporated and accessible only through the estern flank. It's diversity in what you can do once you get in positions that makes this map so good (Eh I mean well-received, we can't know how good it is if we don't actually play on it)! So yes, there are many paths, but there's no way players will not contact their enemy (keep in mind that all these 15 tanks are only divided in 2 parts, not 3 like on most maps).

4. I believe it's WG's job to take it further. I have offered them a very solid base to start developing a map and have also indirectly offered them feedback on such "radical" map proposals through mine. I'm not going to develop this further. I could add details (the tidbits section could double if I'd cover everything, every detail, every building) but I won't do any balancing changes on this map pilot.

(...)

Thanks for the feedback! The next map proposal will be way more open and will include hilly terrain! ;)

(...)

 

1. It's probably less of a problem than I make it out to be, or rather that figuring the map is easier than it appears. You're likely correct in that WG have to make do largely with the players they have. The majority of the players are, judging from the ever-decreasing average winrate, those less concerned with tactics and winning, and those more oriented towards the good ol' play4fun.

The straight-forward approach is to continue to appease these players, and hope that they won't get tired of it. I would not be surprised if this was correct. Not that it should be a concern for someone that wants to make map proposals for fun.

2. I was in a bit of a rush; I realize that your map offers that, I meant to indicate that something like that is potentially a good 'middle ground' between pure corridors and flank-o-rama (which, provided that main routes remain main routes, isn't really a problem).

3. I see. That sounds rather good indeed. Less/closer paths is potentially a good way to increase the duration of the "actual fights", i.e. not the cleanup.

4. WG is too large (and arguably too backwards) for them to readily accept proposals. Word is that communicating with Minsk for Supertesters relies on Google Translate, i.e. typing your reports in a manner that is easily machine translateable. EU has shown some interest in the community as of late, so provided they haven't spent all their precious 7-day premium codes yet I'd try to PM a certain forum bird and see what he thinks. I wouldn't expect anything myself, but it'd be a bad move to ignore your efforts - even if they aren't usable for Wargaming.

 

It'd be fun to see your take on an open map. Bet you could make some sense out of Steppes, for instance. Ideally you'd use something like Sculptris to properly model topography, might be possible to load map files into it or another sort of modelling program. I'll take a look if I get around to it.
Finding an existing area to base an open map on is likely hard, but look into the North Africa campaign. Call of Duty 2 has a couple of tank missions that could serve as good inspiration for "realistic" terrain.

https://www.youtube....nTanC8&t=45m20s



adelos #48 Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:52 PM

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Nice, I hope I'l see it on the battle !!!! Congrats !!! Keep it up !!!

grizly1973 #49 Posted 04 January 2019 - 11:14 PM

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View Postadelos, on 04 January 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

Nice, I hope I'l see it on the battle !!!! Congrats !!! Keep it up !!!

 

Thank you! I really hope this too!

grizly1973 #50 Posted 04 January 2019 - 11:35 PM

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View Postkubawt112, on 04 January 2019 - 08:31 PM, said:

 

1. It's probably less of a problem than I make it out to be, or rather that figuring the map is easier than it appears. You're likely correct in that WG have to make do largely with the players they have. The majority of the players are, judging from the ever-decreasing average winrate, those less concerned with tactics and winning, and those more oriented towards the good ol' play4fun.

The straight-forward approach is to continue to appease these players, and hope that they won't get tired of it. I would not be surprised if this was correct. Not that it should be a concern for someone that wants to make map proposals for fun.

2. I was in a bit of a rush; I realize that your map offers that, I meant to indicate that something like that is potentially a good 'middle ground' between pure corridors and flank-o-rama (which, provided that main routes remain main routes, isn't really a problem).

3. I see. That sounds rather good indeed. Less/closer paths is potentially a good way to increase the duration of the "actual fights", i.e. not the cleanup.

4. WG is too large (and arguably too backwards) for them to readily accept proposals. Word is that communicating with Minsk for Supertesters relies on Google Translate, i.e. typing your reports in a manner that is easily machine translateable. EU has shown some interest in the community as of late, so provided they haven't spent all their precious 7-day premium codes yet I'd try to PM a certain forum bird and see what he thinks. I wouldn't expect anything myself, but it'd be a bad move to ignore your efforts - even if they aren't usable for Wargaming.

 

It'd be fun to see your take on an open map. Bet you could make some sense out of Steppes, for instance. Ideally you'd use something like Sculptris to properly model topography, might be possible to load map files into it or another sort of modelling program. I'll take a look if I get around to it.
Finding an existing area to base an open map on is likely hard, but look into the North Africa campaign. Call of Duty 2 has a couple of tank missions that could serve as good inspiration for "realistic" terrain.

https://www.youtube....nTanC8&t=45m20s

 

 

1. Yes, WG has to get their insert bad word here together and do it fast if they want e-sports and this stuff to still function. I don't think they wish WoT to become WoB (World Of Bots).

2. It is good middle-ground. I'd love to supertest my own map. Maybe, just maybe, if the stars align...

3. The cleanup and 1v1s will be very tricky on this map. Mainly due to the many escape routes you have from almost any zone of the map. You can get away pretty quickly and get lost inbetween the buildings, never to be seen again... I can imagine lights trolling heavies in 1v1s a lot around the easter part of the map. 1v1s will generally be very tense, as you'll never know which corner your enemy will jumpscare you from. I can see some pretty epic 1v5+ carries happening oftenly due to all these factors.

4. That saddens me profoundly. :( Isn't it unacceptable for a company this big to not have good english speakers at least as translators? Looks like it isn't. :unsure:

I'll actually ask our beloved moderator eekeeboo if he can edit my original post and add a poll vote with the question "Do you want this map to be brought to the game?" and the obvious answers (options for vote) being "Yes" and "No".

So, dear eekeeboo, is that possible? If it is, please do it. It will better reflect what the community thinks of this map.

 

Regarding my next proposal.

 

I actually won't start working on it until I get to know what happens with this one. I'm curious to see how far it can reach up the hierarchy (I hope with my entire heart it reaches the design team and actually start being worked on for game implementation). I can assure you that it's a real location, just like this one, and is based on a real WW2 battle (a lesser known one, but a relatively important one, nonetheless). It's also based on a lot of flanking and is "radical" compared to what we have now, but the battle areas will be divided differently. But first I want to get the experience of sending proposals to WG from this and if this fails, see why it did and how it could be adressed. If it fails due to a non-written implied rule that "We, WG, do not accept any proposals from our peasants players." I'm sorry to say that I won't do any more of them. It's quite a big effort and takes a big chunk of my free time (an entire weekend to be more precise). If it is for nothing, it's not worth it.

 

However, if this goes well and reaches at least close to the design team, I will learn from that and try to make the next ones even better.

 

If WG is interested in actually cooperating with me, I'll do my "game-breaking breath-taking never-thought-of-before" desert Grand Battles map and sent it directly to their consultants or whatever they're called. I'd love the reveal of that to be made in a dedicated video and not on this forum. I hope you understand this. If WG doesen't take proposals, you'll never see it. If WG does, your only chance to see it is when it gets close to game release. There's no in-between here, sorry.

WG is to blame if you will never get to see it. :hiding:


Edited by grizly1973, 05 January 2019 - 09:52 AM.


grizly1973 #51 Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:58 AM

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Also, above all this stuff I wrote yesterday, I have a question for eekeeboo.

And that is: Is it possible to bring back some life in the Community Area -> Contests section by asking if a map proposal contest could be possible? The reward being nothing else than implementation of the proposal. There, everyone could vote for what they think is best and the winning map would be chosen in a democratic manner this way (although I don't think WG is a big fan of this system) and the players' wishes would be illustrated through vote points. It would let the design team know what kind of maps the players want. (Let's just hope that someone doesen't submit a troll proposal that everyone votes just to troll WG)



Kicky92 #52 Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:32 PM

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10/10 effort.

I think this will be put in the game simply because of all the trains. yes trains. if you havnt noticed, most of the maps have trains or at least tracks. 

I personally think World of Tanks is a test bed for the upcoming World of Trains lol. however the Russian bias concerns me, we all know the Russian trains will go faster, further and carry more passengers and have clean accident records lol. 



grizly1973 #53 Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:22 PM

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View PostKicky92, on 05 January 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

10/10 effort.

I think this will be put in the game simply because of all the trains. yes trains. if you havnt noticed, most of the maps have trains or at least tracks. 

I personally think World of Tanks is a test bed for the upcoming World of Trains lol. however the Russian bias concerns me, we all know the Russian trains will go faster, further and carry more passengers and have clean accident records lol. 

 

xD I'd love to actually see a high-quality train game.

 

In all seriousness, the trains we see on the WoT maps are really badly made. The models don't resemble the actual railcars used in their time and there's a disgusting lack of diversity. That's why I've added relatively many pictures of trains in the tidbits section of my proposal.

 

Thanks for the feedback! :medal:



mjs_89 #54 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:28 AM

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Not another city map pls...

85Echo #55 Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:53 AM

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Congratulations, you have re-designed Port.

grizly1973 #56 Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:56 PM

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View Postmjs_89, on 06 January 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

Not another city map pls...

 

Take a look at its features. You will see that it's very different to the city maps you're used to in-game.
11:58 Added after 1 minute

View Post85Echo, on 06 January 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

Congratulations, you have re-designed Port.

 

It is similar, indeed. However, I think it's better than Port thanks to the abundance of areas designated for actual fighting. Port had a mess of a railyard on it. This doesen't.

etody77 #57 Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:07 PM

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Good job, can you create another Romanian map?

a Historicall one

Iasi - Chisinau

You can find many information searching after the russian summer offensive in 1944



the_nebuchadnezzar #58 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View Postetody77, on 06 January 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

Good job, can you create another Romanian map?

a Historicall one

Iasi - Chisinau

You can find many information searching after the russian summer offensive in 1944

And, just for fun, put Orzanel's car on one of the streets so I can drove my tank over it...:trollface:



etody77 #59 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:20 PM

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View Postthe_nebuchadnezzar, on 06 January 2019 - 02:13 PM, said:

And, just for fun, put Orzanel's car on one of the streets so I can drove my tank over it...:trollface:

No city on this map, just some hills...and streets

the desired car could drive on them



grizly1973 #60 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View Postetody77, on 06 January 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

Good job, can you create another Romanian map?

a Historicall one

Iasi - Chisinau

You can find many information searching after the russian summer offensive in 1944

 

Why do you have to spoil the surprise? My next map proposal is another Romanian map, but this time one based on an actual WW2 battle. It's not Iasi-Chisinau though, it's something else. :justwait:

This map (70s era) could be the perfect natural habitat for hypothetical Romanian high-tier tanks, it they will ever be introduced. My next proposal is the habitat for the low-to-mid tier ones.

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View Postthe_nebuchadnezzar, on 06 January 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

And, just for fun, put Orzanel's car on one of the streets so I can drove my tank over it...:trollface:

 

Poor Orzanel :arta:





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