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Does the Type 4/5 DERP suck?


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wEight_Tanker #1 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:30 PM

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From the victim's perspective, yes it does. I can relate. Getting your IS-3 penned by a Type 4 HE gun dealing 1024 damage. Literally 10 bits of your HP go byebye. Means the guy is extremely lucky and didn't pen a well-armored tank with a crappy HE penetration shell in 200 battles. So that leads me to wondering... Is it worth buying a DERP gun and deal 40% damage to tanks of the regular AP gun's damage when you pen? I don't like DERP guns like before, It's like rolling three 20 sided dice to hit and rolling a 100000000 sided dice to hit a weak spot. I like the AP gun on the Type. But sometimes it sucks how much prem. ammo I need to load for indestructible targets. Hell, I wish I could find a good position on the map. But I'm slow as hell. Type 4 is heavier than 5 and much slower.

Should I buy the DERP and spend more credits to deal 5% more damage to armored tanks or just stick with the 14cm AP gun and load gold when I have to (cougcoughallthetime) and do decent damage?



SuedKAT #2 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:41 PM

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The derp eats softly armored targets, it negates every strength of other tanks like the possibility to angle, go hull down or similar, you can still just splash them regardless and they pretty much can't do anything to you on most maps since they are just corridors, I'd go with the derp and just avoid open areas where other tanks might have a chance.

Dava_117 #3 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:44 PM

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I see a good ammount of Type4 using the 14cm.

You have better pen than an E75 (249vs246), 600 alpha, good gun depression to overmatch roofs and engine deck and an HE shell already powerfull enought to damage hulldown tanks. The premium shell is readonably good IMO, enought to reliably pen all the weackspots of tanks in game. Can suffer a bit against Type5s, but if you get close enought to reliably hit the driver hatch, you can easily out trade it.

 



Drone81 #4 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:45 PM

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1 shotted a IS-3 from the front with my Type 5 last year in december with the HE derp gun

 

so yeah, it's worth it, even with the Type 4 you can still support the team from the second line

 

hell, my max damage blocked with the Type 4 is 17.000 when i took the lead once

 

 



Element6 #5 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:46 PM

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I played the Type 4 with the derp mainly to compensate for the tank's situational nature and saw it as a tool for my team not as a high damage dealer, because even with that gun you will have many games with relatively low damage, but as a tank efficiency diminisher. Sure, if you encounter mostly low armored enemies you will cause serious havoc, but if they are armored you can spend ages trading, so I saw some of it's value in dealing critical hits to enemies to make them less effective, like damaging guns and killing crew, I.E an indirect effect not giving me XP. I am very aware of how crippling module and crew damage can be, and sometimes such a thing in 1-3 enemies can quickly turn the tide, though it is not something that can be considered reliable since you can't even directly notice the effect during the battle.

Edited by Element6, 04 January 2019 - 03:47 PM.


TungstenHitman #6 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:50 PM

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I shot a Bobject in the side with a standard HE round from a T49 derp for over 900 dmg. Apparently the side armor of a Bobject is too thick everywhere for a standard HE to pen it so... explain that!

Archaean #7 Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 04 January 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

From the victim's perspective, yes it does. I can relate. Getting your IS-3 penned by a Type 4 HE gun dealing 1024 damage. Literally 10 bits of your HP go byebye. Means the guy is extremely lucky and didn't pen a well-armored tank with a crappy HE penetration shell in 200 battles. So that leads me to wondering... Is it worth buying a DERP gun and deal 40% damage to tanks of the regular AP gun's damage when you pen? I don't like DERP guns like before, It's like rolling three 20 sided dice to hit and rolling a 100000000 sided dice to hit a weak spot. I like the AP gun on the Type. But sometimes it sucks how much prem. ammo I need to load for indestructible targets. Hell, I wish I could find a good position on the map. But I'm slow as hell. Type 4 is heavier than 5 and much slower.

Should I buy the DERP and spend more credits to deal 5% more damage to armored tanks or just stick with the 14cm AP gun and load gold when I have to (cougcoughallthetime) and do decent damage?

 

I've received 600 he damaged in my is-7 thanks to the HE derp gun and if it's a frontal fight I can't remember when it dealt less than 400 damage. With these numbers I simply can't get it to work out that 400/600 = 40%.



Hellfoxe #8 Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:10 PM

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Type 4/5 is my prior target if I play arty. That slow walking tank is taking quite hits and still moving like frankenstein monster.

Element6 #9 Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:31 PM

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View PostHellfoxe, on 04 January 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Type 4/5 is my prior target if I play arty. That slow walking tank is taking quite hits and still moving like frankenstein monster.

I would guess that other tanks, possibly heavy tanks, in the enemy team are sometimes grateful that they have a Type on their team so that enemy SPG, like you, shoot them so they can roam around the battlefield and not camp "arty safe" positions. Type players sometimes serve as the SPG magnet so the other tanks are left alone. I doubt many consider this possibility that is sure to at least sometimes let them experience less SPG attention.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:57 PM

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View PostHellfoxe, on 04 January 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

Type 4/5 is my prior target if I play arty. That slow walking tank is taking quite hits and still moving like frankenstein monster.

 

That's an unwise targeting IMO, types are well armored and on top of that have massive spaced armor on the sides. It's like shooting heat at tracks. French arty in particular deals pathetic damage to the types.

 

@OP Yes the derp gun and the premium ammo are worth it if you want to have a bit of fun. Fun at the expense of others unfortunately but still fun. You don't aim or look for a pen with the derp guns, you look for the weakest parts of the armor to shoot or to splash. You can even shoot the tracks to splash the tank's belly or shoot the ground under the tank.

 

If you're treating type 4/5 like a normal tank, it's not and it isn't optimal to play with the AP gun.



babobabko #11 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:41 PM

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With standard ammo i deal around 300HP per shell, before buffing gold and nerfing standard it was around 400HP. Just another stupid move!!

Nishi_Kinuyo #12 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:48 PM

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View Postbabobabko, on 04 January 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

With standard ammo i deal around 300HP per shell, before buffing gold and nerfing standard it was around 400HP. Just another stupid move!!

The shells of the 15cm/45 41st Year Type haven't changed since they were added to the game though.

 

The "derp" is just unreliable in damage output unless you know exactly where to aim, and pray to the eight million for it to actually hit that location.

Unfortunately, the alternative, the 14cm/50 3rd Year Type has too poor stats to be viable compared to the 41st Year Type firing gold.



Dorander #13 Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:49 PM

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If you lose 10 bits, does that mean the Type 4/5 took a huge byte out of you?

 

 

I don't own the tanks myself because I consider them too disgusting to drive (and I'm too lazy to grind), but looking at the statistics, yes, I'd say it's worth it. One reason is that mathematically it works out closer to 80% of the damage per shot, even on heavily armoured tanks like a Maus where you can splash the engine deck all day. The derpgun just does damage so much more reliably than any regular gun does, if you bounce only 2 AP shells per game you've got a decent chance of breaking even on effective damage and that is not a high bar.

 

Consider also the frequency of meeting lower tier targets, shots of opportunity against side armour, paper tanks you might encounter, module damage... the derpgun is simply going to overperform compared to a regular gun.



Gremlin182 #14 Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:10 PM

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Both decent tier 9 and 10 super-heavies

The type 5 is playable with either gun and though its been a while the type 4 was much the same though I played that with normal matchmaking not the current one.

 

With the 14 cm you are much like the other super-heavies though you have very good armour vs SPGs many tanks have 25 - 40mm on the top of the hull and turret.

The Type 4 and 5 its a minimum of 75mm and some of it ranges from 80 up to 90 near the turret front and 160 in front of the turret.

I find with a Super-heavy spal liner many SPGs are wasting their ammo.

No crew casualties almost no modules other than maybe tracks of optics and minimal damage.

Tier 10 arty will hurt you but they would still probably be better off shooting your teammates.

 

I don't think the 15cm guns premium ammo should work the way it does though +300 damage for 6400 isn't worth it

In the current game you will be in an all tier 10 game most of the time and facing heavily armoured tanks.

You are not doing 1100 or 1400 damage mostly you are doing 300-400 which is usually less than they are doing to you.

Though you are also doing crew and module damage.

 

How about making the 15cm premium round have better pen rather than extra damage

Even the KV2 at tier 6 has 86 pen

 

 

 

 






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