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WoT is not broken...


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AngelofAwe #21 Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 02:49 PM, said:

 

Concur Sir,

Take any current WG WoT map infomercial video: The are definite places ment for different type of tanks. However Defender against Type 5 is not what it means. Defender is then a med rather than a heavy or you pray the Maus to track it after exposing itself by shooting. I don't know. I just don't see this as a major problem at the moment.

 

The Defender isn't exactly a good example as that is a VERY good tank for its tier that can perform decently against tier 10s.
Neither do you need to grind any modules on it.

Try a stock VK 100.01P against a Type 4. 1 tier difference only so I'm going easy on you. 

Then again this isn't what I'm speaking of either, you're thinking of battles as if you only need to win a flank and not the match. It doesn't matter what tank you're in, you have to go into the battle with the mentality that you have to be able to kill anything you meet one way or another.
You don't have any luxuries like "just go medium flank" when you're in a 1v2 in the end and need to outplay. 

Edited by AngelofAwe, 06 January 2019 - 02:01 PM.


apaleytos #22 Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 06 January 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

This is the issue for me, not the tiers themselves.
And if I'm feeling useless as a bottom tier tank I can only imagine how the average player feels.
Then we have to take the 3-5-7 mm into account which means you're bottom tier more often than you used to be in the past as well.
I'm not surprised a lot of people quit the game. It's not fun to feel useless, win or lose. 

 

+1000 

 

As a bad-average player and mostly f2p i stayed away from t10s for years while having fun grinding/playing tanks at T5-T7. 3-5-7 b*tt fed these tiers.I used to have fun even driving stock tanks and had decent games while being the only low tier in a +2 games(most of my ace tankers).6k dmg game with SU-152,4k with arl 44 same with tiger. I played again for the SU130 marathon and felt miserable being bottom tier while my 3 top tiers where roleplaying somewhere or afk.I know there are l2p issues for me but if players like AngelofAwe dont feel  competitive in 3-5-7 then mm is definately crap.I undestand that this MM is designed to push players to T10 and that 75%+ of players dont even spend a cent for this game,but less enjoyable gaming experience doesn't help the game longterm.



MulkQvist_Fi #23 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostCrashzi, on 06 January 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

You don't see a problem maybe because you use gold ammo?

 

Sure, when ever needed to pen/track the enemy. Why not?

It's like you have a tightened screw you want to loose. You could spend credits for a screwdriver but instead decide to use your fingernails. It's up to you. No actual money involved, it's just premium, period..

And yes I use extra rations too to puff skills, same thing?



SiliconSidewinder #24 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:06 PM

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well in a way the OP is correct, most of the problems in WoT are based on the way players deal with situations not the game in itself.

In the end though WoT is a game that has to please it's players which is why we have been recieving one solution after another since forever and very few of those actually adressed real problems with the game mechanics.

 

 

 



MulkQvist_Fi #25 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:17 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 06 January 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

The Defender isn't exactly a good example as that is a VERY good tank for its tier that can perform decently against tier 10s.
Neither do you need to grind any modules on it.

Try a stock VK 100.01P against a Type 4. 1 tier difference only so I'm going easy on you. 

Then again this isn't what I'm speaking of either, you're thinking of battles as if you only need to win a flank and not the match. It doesn't matter what tank you're in, you have to go into the battle with the mentality that you have to be able to kill anything you meet one way or another.
You don't have any luxuries like "just go medium flank" when you're in a 1v2 in the end and need to outplay. 

 

Sorry, I must be really stupid.

Are you saying the teams are unbalanced in terms of tanks? If not then the winning is up to the team performance?

Stock: I fail to see the point? Stock is stock=mostly pain. Not to mention better and correct crew skills, equipment and rations etc? Unfair?

 

 

 



LordMuffin #26 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:17 PM

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View Postapaleytos, on 06 January 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

+1000 

 

As a bad-average player and mostly f2p i stayed away from t10s for years while having fun grinding/playing tanks at T5-T7. 3-5-7 b*tt fed these tiers.I used to have fun even driving stock tanks and had decent games while being the only low tier in a +2 games(most of my ace tankers).6k dmg game with SU-152,4k with arl 44 same with tiger. I played again for the SU130 marathon and felt miserable being bottom tier while my 3 top tiers where roleplaying somewhere or afk.I know there are l2p issues for me but if players like AngelofAwe dont feel  competitive in 3-5-7 then mm is definately crap.I undestand that this MM is designed to push players to T10 and that 75%+ of players dont even spend a cent for this game,but less enjoyable gaming experience doesn't help the game longterm.

Agreed, my favourite tiers before was T7-T9.

Mostly T7 and T8. Never really liked T10 tanks.

And in the old MM this wasn't an issue.

I could be competetive in games, even as a solo T8 T32 in a full T10 game. Sure, I had to load some premium shells, but I could support my other T10 and help win.

A huge part of this was that the difference between T8 and T10 tanks back them was much smaller then it currently is. My feeling is same for difference between T7 and T9 and T6 and T8. The differences are only increasing, making bottom tiered tanks worse and worse in comparison.

This, together with the vast increase in bottom tiered battles is something that has made me more or less stop playing.

Game just became more boring.

 

Added to this, WG now plans to introduce a nerf of premium ammo damage, a change that will just further increase the differences between top tiered and bottom tiered tanks in any battles.

 

The map design WG have is also mostly terrible. And I think this is because WG have that idea of forcing a meta on the maps. Forcing heavy tanks, TD and mediums to certain spots etc.

13:19 Added after 1 minute

View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

Sorry, I must be really stupid.

Are you saying the teams are unbalanced in terms of tanks? If not then the winning is up to the team performance?

Stock: I fail to see the point? Stock is stock=mostly pain. Not to mention better and correct crew skills, equipment and rations etc? Unfair?

 

 

 

Yes, teams are often unbalanced in terms of tanks.

In a well balanced game, the unbalance would be rather small and thus it unimportant. But when we have such large differences in power between tanks as we have in WoT, battles can be more or less won/lost only due to tank distribution. And often one team will be heavily favoured due to tank distribution. Then if you add map imbalances this gets further enhanced. 

Mines encounter. ..


Edited by LordMuffin, 06 January 2019 - 02:21 PM.


AngelofAwe #27 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:27 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

 

Sorry, I must be really stupid.

Are you saying the teams are unbalanced in terms of tanks? If not then the winning is up to the team performance?

Stock: I fail to see the point? Stock is stock=mostly pain. Not to mention better and correct crew skills, equipment and rations etc? Unfair?

 

It's not what I was saying but that is also the case, although I don't even expect MM to be able to take this factor into much account. Lord Muffin basically repeated what I think again with his own words about the role of bottom tier tanks now compared to the past. You can do much less now than you used to and you're at the bottom more often than you used to be.

Stock wasn't always a pain, I did perfectly fine in the experiment below, stock and with no premium ammo or crew skills at all.
It wasn't EASY but it was POSSIBLE to beat the odds through superior play. Nowadays this is if not impossible, much much harder which kills the enjoyment for a large proportion of the player base.

WG managed to both dumb down the game AND make it harder to compete at the same time recently. That's a sort of achievement.

Edited by AngelofAwe, 06 January 2019 - 02:30 PM.


gunslingerXXX #28 Posted 06 January 2019 - 03:25 PM

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For me the point is mainly about the frequency in which you get certain matchups. 

In the past sometimes you were the only one in a -2 tank. I won't pretend I liked it or was able to impact the game, because I wasn't. It was a matter of 'roll over and die'

The important difference however is that it was rare. Back then you got on average decent matchups. Some great, some terrible, but on average... it was average, which sort of makes sense.

Now however, the majority is bottom/meh. Its not terrible, but it's certainly below average. Some are mid/top/single tier, thats nice. Personally I prefer the old random system. Also the more predictable templates are less fun to me.


Edited by gunslingerXXX, 06 January 2019 - 03:29 PM.


Rilleta #29 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:00 PM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 06 January 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

You might think that being bottom in your tier 8 medium is not so bad because the mm gave you 7 other tier 8s.

Then you look at the tank list and VERY often the mm balance you with ONE tier 8 medium on the enemy team.

Rest are normally 3-7 Tds and a few tier 8 russian heavies. Basicly the mm force to either spam gold or roll over and die.

 

Corrected minor errors.

Happy Sunday(e).



MulkQvist_Fi #30 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:51 PM

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I really don't have any problems with current MM. Maybe as I'm able to produce constant WN8 which I'm happy with, even with varioty of tanks.

It sounds to me that majority of this complaint is from players used to be able to produce more WN+WR before.

If you think about this, it cannot be "all loose" for all the players, it may be that "not so good" players are benefitting of this. Naturally cannot confirm this just a feeling.

 

Some win, some loose. I guess.



LordMuffin #31 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:14 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

I really don't have any problems with current MM. Maybe as I'm able to produce constant WN8 which I'm happy with, even with varioty of tanks.

It sounds to me that majority of this complaint is from players used to be able to produce more WN+WR before.

If you think about this, it cannot be "all loose" for all the players, it may be that "not so good" players are benefitting of this. Naturally cannot confirm this just a feeling.

 

Some win, some loose. I guess.

WG have indeed dumbed the game down and reduced the skill ceiling.



MulkQvist_Fi #32 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:44 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 06 January 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:

WG have indeed dumbed the game down and reduced the skill ceiling.

 

Then unicums should simply shine bright? And strong opinions as no games since October, how can you know?:amazed:

Gixxer66 #33 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:08 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

AngelofAwe & Co,

 

Don't think it was ever ment to be that everyone can pen/kill everyone when confronted directly. T8 heavy in tier X heavy game can  actually treated as a med? I don't share your feelings entirely however I play a lot t8/9 games today. In these games don't really get intimitaded by tier X, pack em, track em and let team mates kill em. In all cases it's all about the ppl playing in teams and following through their different roles in each game.

Not complaining and actually don't know how it could be different from MM point of view?

 

You do know that we can see exactly what you have been playing today ?

 

Noobmeter shows 1 Tier 8 game for the latest time frame, and that was a zero damage loss, rest of the games are either T9 or TX

 

T6 and T8 especially are not fun, unless you are playing in a pref MM T8 then it's OK. Being in bottom tier for 75% of your games is not at all fun, and when the fun stops the subs drop.



salvager #34 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:21 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

MM is not broken...

It's the players that are broken.

Not everyone can have a WR of 90%. Your teammates nor the enemy is there to amuse you, nor to feed you kills. Let them use gold as they like, you can too. Some players never evolve yet they still play. Some pay to win, let's just deal with it.

I Play to have fun. A loosing game can also be fun. Don't like it? Do something else.

As I have now insulted you (Yes you!) Let's see how polite you can be...:)

 

 


 

Excellent!  :teethhappy:



Homer_J #35 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:27 PM

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View PostWintermute_1, on 06 January 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

 

People don't like playing bottom tier the whole time. 

 

That's because they are selfish.

 

I don't mind being bottom tier because if I do something stupid (and I often do) then it doesn't matter.



MulkQvist_Fi #36 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:57 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 06 January 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

 

You do know that we can see exactly what you have been playing today ?

 

Noobmeter shows 1 Tier 8 game for the latest time frame, and that was a zero damage loss, rest of the games are either T9 or TX

 

T6 and T8 especially are not fun, unless you are playing in a pref MM T8 then it's OK. Being in bottom tier for 75% of your games is not at all fun, and when the fun stops the subs drop.

 

Sure I do, and as stating something like that, please look further and tell the rest of the story too.

 

Lately been grinding 430, 45/53tp, Pantera and O-ni. Not complaining of the match making, some games with total tools but that's the way it is. Still decent numbers for me, better than with those Tier Xs.

 

Yesterday just had fun with tier X, since I really don't play them that much and credits are good now.

 

 



LordMuffin #37 Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:24 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

 

Then unicums should simply shine bright? And strong opinions as no games since October, how can you know?:amazed:

I played in October.

At which time th ed game had already been dumbed down pretty much.

 

We now have a low skill ceiling (meaning skill have less impact on outcome).

Then we have more randomness that dictates the outcome. Like: which tanks did your 3 top tier pick, which side of the map did you spawn on, are your teams 3 top tiers afk or playing etc.



AngelofAwe #38 Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:42 PM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

I really don't have any problems with current MM. Maybe as I'm able to produce constant WN8 which I'm happy with, even with varioty of tanks.

It sounds to me that majority of this complaint is from players used to be able to produce more WN+WR before.

If you think about this, it cannot be "all loose" for all the players, it may be that "not so good" players are benefitting of this. Naturally cannot confirm this just a feeling.

 

Some win, some loose. I guess.

 

Incorrect once again. The strongest players are already so far ahead of the curve that they aren't impacted as much. Sure the game is extremely unfun when the mechanics are dumbed down (impenetrable armor, HE derp guns, corridor map designs etc.) but a player that is good and has played for many years has already gotten past the grinds during the days when you could still have an impact and has the credits to fire as much gold as is required.

Good players however are a tiny sliver of the player base and if the rest leave because the game is no longer enjoyable there will be nobody left to battle.

Somnorila #39 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:02 AM

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View PostMulkQvist_Fi, on 06 January 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

 A loosing game can also be fun.

 

Not with 15-3 scores. I find the times when i acknowledge a good game even if we lost to be very rare.

And that's because two main reasons. Players and MM.

They could balance teams through MM by taking in account tank stats and player account history to get mirrored teams according to the players who will most likely contest same map regions. But if this is too difficult and would bring waiting time issues or prove to bring too little difference because you can't really balance players. Then maybe balance maps so that players be more flexible when providing fire support. Even a bad player can shoot red enemies most of the time. So maps should be more flat so that sniping be possible over larger distances across the map. We need less corridors and the ability to snipe in every direction at least in your half part of the map. This would solve issues regarding bad tanks for the map, stock tanks, bad players taking the wrong side or not moving from base. You know, while team mates are dying and the rest sits and does nothing. Giving them the lines of fire they will help their team mates from afar. I would rather have stalemate matches which end in draw rather than 15-3 matches.  



Wintermute_1 #40 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:58 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 January 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

That's because they are selfish.

 

I don't mind being bottom tier because if I do something stupid (and I often do) then it doesn't matter.

 

Lets hope WG don't think their players dislike for the current MM lies with their own selfishness. 

 

Asking for their selflessness on top of their money might be a bit much.

 

People play games to have fun, if it stops being fun they stop playing.






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