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why does this game have a steep learning curve?


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DorsVenabiIi #1 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:02 PM

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I struggled a lot, A LOT, before I became good at this game. But now it all just seems so easy... the gameplay is so damn easy once you get it you wonder how you could've ever struggled. Like I could be drunk blasting loud music and not even try hard and do well. 

 

I think one of the reason it seems so damn easy now is because of a progression ceiling in the game, like once you map positioning, basic tactics, map awareness, situational awareness, half decent aim you've more or less mastered just about everything you need. I say half decent aim because you can get away with not being the best aimer in this game, in fact aiming would be the last skill i'd recommend anyone to hone. Once you understand all this there isn't much more to it.

 

Just bizarre such an easy game takes so much time to learn :/


Edited by DorsVenabiIi, 06 January 2019 - 05:02 PM.


wsatnutter #2 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:25 PM

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it keeps peoples wallets open to a degree

PervyPastryPuffer #3 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 06 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

I struggled a lot, A LOT, before I became good at this game. But now it all just seems so easy... the gameplay is so damn easy once you get it you wonder how you could've ever struggled. Like I could be drunk blasting loud music and not even try hard and do well. 

 

I think one of the reason it seems so damn easy now is because of a progression ceiling in the game, like once you map positioning, basic tactics, map awareness, situational awareness, half decent aim you've more or less mastered just about everything you need. I say half decent aim because you can get away with not being the best aimer in this game, in fact aiming would be the last skill i'd recommend anyone to hone. Once you understand all this there isn't much more to it.

 

Just bizarre such an easy game takes so much time to learn :/

 

Look at it this way; If it was easy to learn fast, it would get boring pretty quickly. If it takes longer to get good at a game, you'll realize you spend more time in that game, just to get as good as you can be.



Element6 #4 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:31 PM

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It isn't bizarre, it's the Dunning-Kruger bias. It is why some players that "get" the game think that people who don't have below average IQ.

DorsVenabiIi #5 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:52 PM

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View PostElement6, on 06 January 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

It isn't bizarre, it's the Dunning-Kruger bias. It is why some players that "get" the game think that people who don't have below average IQ.

 

I don't think that, I've seen some absolute morons who are good at the game.

Pansenmann #6 Posted 06 January 2019 - 05:53 PM

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I would add  "leading shots" to your skill list that one can master,

it helps great when playing arty or tanks with low shell velocity.

 

actually, that one I learnt on the shooting range

and applied my knowledge of ballistics to WoT - for the first year or so I had a mentor

who told me a lot about this game so I never went below 50% average winrate :)


Edited by Pansenmann, 06 January 2019 - 05:55 PM.


Evilier_than_Skeletor #7 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:00 PM

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I believe it comes down to that at the end you have to figure out and most importantly try out everything by yourself. Sure, there are guides both written and video that explain what you need to know. It's bit like watching a professional athlete explain what he/she does. It all makes perfect sense. It's all so simple. And then you try the same yourself and fail miserably. Also, there is no progressive study plan for tanks and perhaps there couldn't even be, because you can't really focus on one area at a time and ignore the rest.

voodoospirit #8 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:06 PM

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after everquest on hardcore PvP server, all the other games are a piece of cake in the learning curve.. wot being one of the easiest in the different 'mmo' i ve played.

i started wot with the french lights in MM+4/+5 system...and discovered after a while that it was easier with the soviet and US lights  line.....but was still way easier than Everquest.

wot had a good wikipedia about the mechanics of the game which was needed in MM+4/+5 games but i was used to check web sites for quests or else in the previous games.



Element6 #9 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:24 PM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 06 January 2019 - 05:52 PM, said:

 

I don't think that, I've seen some absolute morons who are good at the game.

Nah, only some think that of course. You can find very intelligent people who are crap at the game, and vice versa. But it is the DK bias that make something that was initially hard seem easy once we understand it. I understand a lot about the game but I just don't utilize it very well.



Ace42X #10 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:32 AM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 06 January 2019 - 04:02 PM, said:

I struggled a lot, A LOT, before I became good at this game. But now it all just seems so easy... the gameplay is so damn easy once you get it you wonder how you could've ever struggled. Like I could be drunk blasting loud music and not even try hard and do well.

 

Because the game is very poorly designed in terms of new player experience.

The tier 1-3 tanks are completely unrepresentative of the rest of the game in terms of armour protection, penetration, speed, health, and view-range; and thus how they fit into the roles associated with the different weight-classes.
The low view ranges in particular completely distort how the scouting and vision-game works as you go up the tiers.


The economy's P2W aspects are at their most egregious - a new F2P isn't going to be able to binocs, camo net, camo paint, premium ammo, keeping a 100% crew, chocolate and other consumables, etc, etc.  Which leads to widespread seal-clubbing, and thus an environment where it's impossible to separate you making bad plays from the enemy just having bought an advantage over you.  Let alone mounted upgrades which cost a fortune and can't be moved freely as you quickly progress up to and through Tier 4.
The low credit and XP rewards at low tier make crew-grinding a nightmare even if you splurge on boosts from premium account / tanks and preclude spending cash on spare binocs / getting more than 75% crew training.

The noob maps are generally badly designed for new players:
City maps favour very specific attributes, which leads to an unrepresentative and unhelpful experience of players in vehicles that don't shine in those environments.  They offer very limited / niche opportunities for learning defilade / hull-down tactics, scouting, and double-bushing.

Malinovka and Himmelsdorf both feature incredibly steep climbs which are tedious in slow (read: all low tier) vehicles, and thus discourage new players from seizing the most important part of the map.

Abbey features a noob-trap lane that only teaches new players bad habits which will have to be unlearned at higher tiers when arty and TDs eat them again and again and again, when players get to Tier4 and experience Lakeville this happens again.


Both Abbey and Mines feature a very unhelpful "race against certain death to get to the high ground in the middle" minigame which teaches new players to make ridiculous and unhelpful high-risk plays.

If WG wanted to flatten out the learning curve and improve new player experience, they should allow complimentary 100% crew retraining into all tier 1-3 vehicles; complimentary equipment and consumables for all tier 1-3s; and ditch himmelsdorf and malinovka from the low-tier matchmaking - replace them with Widepark and Tundra.

That or rework the economy and progression system so the values - aside from speed, armour, and pen - are normalised across the tiers and thus what you learn in one tier more directly applies to the next.

 



TankkiPoju #11 Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:54 AM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 06 January 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

I think one of the reason it seems so damn easy now is because of a progression ceiling in the game, like once you map positioning, basic tactics, map awareness, situational awareness, half decent aim you've more or less mastered just about everything you need.

 

Map positioning is a funny one. I havea 50% friend that took a long break from WoT and played Overlord ONCE and went to beach... and said the beach is useless and he never went there again. So did I... went to beach once and found it useless.

 

Yet in every game on Overlord there are beach boys who think beach is of any value for some reason. It makes me really wonder just how bad people can be in this game.



RaxipIx #12 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:04 AM

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Map positioning, but also there is a large amount of tanks in the game, spread along a lot of tiers.

When i was new i also struggled, didn't know not to  peek a KV-2 in a lightly armored tank, didn't know not to fight a T-29 hull down, and so on.

 

 



_Flagada_Jones_ #13 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:38 AM

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OP forget: "and learn how to use others as meat shield to spot for you"

:D

kaneloon #14 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:02 AM

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View Post_Flagada_Jones_, on 07 January 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

OP forget: "and learn how to use others as meat shield to spot for you"

:D

 

With a 1.47 spotting rate I don't think he relies too much on it.

 

I think the curve is the delay to rearrange your brain in order for 30% of your synaps to be wot-dedicated ...

 



gpalsson #15 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:22 AM

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humblebrag?

250swb #16 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:28 AM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 06 January 2019 - 04:02 PM, said:

just bizarre such an easy game takes so much time to learn :/

 

If it was easy to learn there wouldn't be nearly as many players sticking around in the hope of getting better at playing it. If in the first 1000 battles a player had learned everything there would be a clear demarcation, those who win and get bored, and those that lose and get bored, in both cases there isn't much point in carrying on. Then you have the seal clubbers who are good at the game and they don't get bored because they like easy wins, but they have clubbed everybody to death and there isn't anybody left to play against.

 

It is the prospect of always trying to be better that keeps players playing. And you may say 'what about the 46% potatoes who never learn anything?', but the answer for those is the prospect of a lucky game, a lucky game is their idea of a skill game. So by the game being inherently hard to learn and difficult to play with such a wide variety of opposition it keeps the player on his or her toes and stimulated. How the game deals with keeping players interested who've learned it (from their own perspective) and think they know everything is another matter. My guess is that it's going to get boring for them playing it, and boring for everybody else if we have to hear about it all the time.



PowJay #17 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:30 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 07 January 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

 

Map positioning is a funny one. I havea 50% friend that took a long break from WoT and played Overlord ONCE and went to beach... and said the beach is useless and he never went there again. So did I... went to beach once and found it useless.

 

Yet in every game on Overlord there are beach boys who think beach is of any value for some reason. It makes me really wonder just how bad people can be in this game.

 

This is the one thing I do not get at all. Low tiers- and their difference in gameplay is understandable, but higher tiers?

 

Malinovka. Half the team stay in base even when they know they are being spotted. Half the team dead in two minutes and yet next battle we see the same thing.

 

Lakeville. Half the team in the valley falling over each other including the only LT with three SPGs in the game. The other half dare not move from the K-line and it's game over.

 

Himmelsdorf. Let's all go to the hill, even in the Maus and Japanese HTs but ignore the west entirely.

 

Battle after battle you see crap like this.



Zoltan1251 #18 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:38 AM

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big problem for new players is that it seems like strategic game which it absolutely isnt!!!!! i tried to outplay players with my special maneuvers which is the dumbest idea you can have in this game

 

bread and butter of this game is: go to spot where your tank class go and peek and shoot...... there is tons of other stuff too but problem is that this game looks more than it really is... dumb cover shooter where your biggest advantage is patience, if you attack you will die



Mannanan #19 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:40 AM

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View PostElement6, on 06 January 2019 - 06:24 PM, said:

Nah, only some think that of course. You can find very intelligent people who are crap at the game, and vice versa. But it is the DK bias that make something that was initially hard seem easy once we understand it. I understand a lot about the game but I just don't utilize it very well.

 

It is not what DK is about. DK doesn't make anything easy once understood. DK is about how people tend to rate themselves/others in relation to their actual performance at something.

Edited by Mannanan, 07 January 2019 - 09:54 AM.


TankkiPoju #20 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:49 AM

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View PostPowJay, on 07 January 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

Lakeville. Half the team in the valley falling over each other including the only LT with three SPGs in the game. The other half dare not move from the K-line and it's game over.

 

My favorites are the people who take short cuts to town on Lakeville. WG even added recesses to both sides so heavies can cross to town safely.

 

Yet in almost every game some speshul person crosses near the lake so they get spotted and nuked.

 

Or the people who go to valley in tanks like AMX CDC or scouts. That always works out juuust fine. Or in slow heavy tanks with 3 arties.






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