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My view on 2019


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HelpIamClaustrophobic #1 Posted 08 January 2019 - 02:20 PM

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First of all. Happy new year!!

 

I tried to write a constructive email to wargaming but ofcourse I get directed to the forum with a standard reply. So now I will have to share it with all of you. So feel free to troll but know why it is up here.

It is the new year and everyone has the best intentions and so is Wargaming with their 2019 promises. Far too little and far too late.

 

I frankly don’t believe any of it until I see it. Most of the promises Wargaming did in the past were to keep the community quiet. This will not be an exception for the most part. They wanted max revenue out of the Christmas money drain so they somehow needed to calm down the player base. Didn’t they announced some months ago that they acknowledged the MM problems and asked said they needed some months to come up with a fix? The only thing they did was cook up some extra templates in those few months which is in no way a fix. So they did nothing to the matchmaker in those months.

What they did do was adding a super OP premium tank to the game which is even better then the Defender. We all know that (Tank) inbalance is a killer for PVP based games. And influences matchmaking a lot. What you think happens when you see your team has a platoon of Tiger II’s and you see a platoon of IS 3A’s on the other side? Is this a balanced matchmaking? Sure you always have a chance of winning but adding these kind of (dis) advantages to a competitive game results in unhappy people and toxicity. The times I got shouted at in chat when I grinded my Panther II for playing a fail tank and crippling the team is insane. And the worse part is that they are right. I would be a better asset to the team if I would play my Lorraine or even the E4. What is the logic behind this insane inbalance in the same tier?

So only adding other templates doesn’t work. You need to address everything influencing the matchmaking. And the only way to do it is go to -1/+1. It is far easier to balance tanks vs 1 tier higher or 1 tier lower then 2 tiers. How can you expect to balance a tier 6 to be able to compete with tier 8 and the same time not making them too OP vs tier 4? You have to be braindead to not see this. Then people say: ‘No, then an IS3 A would dominate every game not seeing tier 10’s and it would break the game’. Well yeah, so you have to balance the tanks in their tiers. Failing to do so will end up in destroying the game. Why you think Frontline was a great success? Yeah, because you played your own tier.

 

The powercreep should stop. I don’t mind that premiums are as good as their normal counterparts but why make them way better? There is absolutely no point in grinding tanks anymore. Get your hands on some OP tanks and you will have a better tank then most. You will make more credits and will have better crews then most, so you can fire more special ammo then most. You never ever have to play stock tanks anymore. Have you tried playing a stock tier 8 tank lately?

 

To save this game you have to go back to the core. It is the only way. The things you announced for 2019 should be something for the 1st quarter. If you wait any longer with the MM changes the loss of players will be beyond repair. 2019 should be the year for massive changes.

 

For myself I promise myself to not play any games I don’t want. Noone can force me to do so. Does that mean I will quit the game? No, it just gets harder and harder to force myself to play them. As many of you. I see many results where it is apparent that a number of players gave up before the game began. Is it by suiciding, AFK’ing or playing the red line. The better players still can make an impact but for the average players like me it is extremely hard and frustrating to end up bottom tier again and notice that even in my own tier other tanks are far superior. I always try and do my best but playing super careful because tanks can 1 shot me and then after 4 minutes get spotted and end up dead in 1s is not my idea of fun. So many autoloaders, derp guns etc. who laugh at lower tier tanks.

 

So Wargaming. Surprise me by keeping your word. But I am sure it will be tons of OP premium tanks and close to no other content and only tweaks to calm down the community from time to time until the next money grab. But 1 thing will be sure and that is the player base will plummet again after the holiday period. And from a money making point of view, lying and disappointing your community time after time will not help people supporting your game financially. What it will do is making people quit, not attracting new players and toxicity in your player base. The road you are taking the last 2 years tells me that you also feel that the game is at its end and you want to get as much money out of it as you can. Not strange that if you send that message people will be leaving and not invest anymore.

 

1 more thing to end this plea is to stop adding more speed to the game. I play a tank game not Mario carts. I love the part of seeing a turret turn towards you and decide if you have time to take 1 more shot or not. I don’t play tanks to be swarmed by little sh$t tanks that run rings around you with 80 km/h with their autoloaders. I might be the only one but I am not excited by wheeled vehicles in the game as it will create even more problems for tanks with slow turret movement and shell velocity. I would first fix the core before adding these kind of new features. This also goes for adding more and more Alpha to the tiers.

 

My 2 cents. Surely Wargaming will read this as I put it on the forum as they requested



CorSeD #2 Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:48 PM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 08 January 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

First of all. Happy new year!!

 

I tried to write a constructive email to wargaming but ofcourse I get directed to the forum with a standard reply. So now I will have to share it with all of you. So feel free to troll but know why it is up here.

It is the new year and everyone has the best intentions and so is Wargaming with their 2019 promises. Far too little and far too late.

 

I frankly don’t believe any of it until I see it. Most of the promises Wargaming did in the past were to keep the community quiet. This will not be an exception for the most part. They wanted max revenue out of the Christmas money drain so they somehow needed to calm down the player base. Didn’t they announced some months ago that they acknowledged the MM problems and asked said they needed some months to come up with a fix? The only thing they did was cook up some extra templates in those few months which is in no way a fix. So they did nothing to the matchmaker in those months.

What they did do was adding a super OP premium tank to the game which is even better then the Defender. We all know that (Tank) inbalance is a killer for PVP based games. And influences matchmaking a lot. What you think happens when you see your team has a platoon of Tiger II’s and you see a platoon of IS 3A’s on the other side? Is this a balanced matchmaking? Sure you always have a chance of winning but adding these kind of (dis) advantages to a competitive game results in unhappy people and toxicity. The times I got shouted at in chat when I grinded my Panther II for playing a fail tank and crippling the team is insane. And the worse part is that they are right. I would be a better asset to the team if I would play my Lorraine or even the E4. What is the logic behind this insane inbalance in the same tier?

So only adding other templates doesn’t work. You need to address everything influencing the matchmaking. And the only way to do it is go to -1/+1. It is far easier to balance tanks vs 1 tier higher or 1 tier lower then 2 tiers. How can you expect to balance a tier 6 to be able to compete with tier 8 and the same time not making them too OP vs tier 4? You have to be braindead to not see this. Then people say: ‘No, then an IS3 A would dominate every game not seeing tier 10’s and it would break the game’. Well yeah, so you have to balance the tanks in their tiers. Failing to do so will end up in destroying the game. Why you think Frontline was a great success? Yeah, because you played your own tier.

 

The powercreep should stop. I don’t mind that premiums are as good as their normal counterparts but why make them way better? There is absolutely no point in grinding tanks anymore. Get your hands on some OP tanks and you will have a better tank then most. You will make more credits and will have better crews then most, so you can fire more special ammo then most. You never ever have to play stock tanks anymore. Have you tried playing a stock tier 8 tank lately?

 

To save this game you have to go back to the core. It is the only way. The things you announced for 2019 should be something for the 1st quarter. If you wait any longer with the MM changes the loss of players will be beyond repair. 2019 should be the year for massive changes.

 

For myself I promise myself to not play any games I don’t want. Noone can force me to do so. Does that mean I will quit the game? No, it just gets harder and harder to force myself to play them. As many of you. I see many results where it is apparent that a number of players gave up before the game began. Is it by suiciding, AFK’ing or playing the red line. The better players still can make an impact but for the average players like me it is extremely hard and frustrating to end up bottom tier again and notice that even in my own tier other tanks are far superior. I always try and do my best but playing super careful because tanks can 1 shot me and then after 4 minutes get spotted and end up dead in 1s is not my idea of fun. So many autoloaders, derp guns etc. who laugh at lower tier tanks.

 

So Wargaming. Surprise me by keeping your word. But I am sure it will be tons of OP premium tanks and close to no other content and only tweaks to calm down the community from time to time until the next money grab. But 1 thing will be sure and that is the player base will plummet again after the holiday period. And from a money making point of view, lying and disappointing your community time after time will not help people supporting your game financially. What it will do is making people quit, not attracting new players and toxicity in your player base. The road you are taking the last 2 years tells me that you also feel that the game is at its end and you want to get as much money out of it as you can. Not strange that if you send that message people will be leaving and not invest anymore.

 

1 more thing to end this plea is to stop adding more speed to the game. I play a tank game not Mario carts. I love the part of seeing a turret turn towards you and decide if you have time to take 1 more shot or not. I don’t play tanks to be swarmed by little sh$t tanks that run rings around you with 80 km/h with their autoloaders. I might be the only one but I am not excited by wheeled vehicles in the game as it will create even more problems for tanks with slow turret movement and shell velocity. I would first fix the core before adding these kind of new features. This also goes for adding more and more Alpha to the tiers.

 

My 2 cents. Surely Wargaming will read this as I put it on the forum as they requested

 

I fully agree with +1/-1 MM. That's most logical perspective i see as well cause from there you can always balance the tanks more easily from game designer point of view. When i get to play a game with +/- 1 MM i am really happy cause the games are more balanced and more tense and challenging at the same time.

Block Quote

 80 km/h with their auto-loaders.

 Logical but it will all depend on its penetration if it will have high penetration then that will be a problem but if it cannot penetrate frontal armor and side armor for heavy's then it would be balanced but if it can than that's a problem.

Block Quote

2019 should be the year for massive changes

 It will depend how they will balance the first 5 tier X tanks. Then from there we will see also how the premium ammo Nerf will affect the game as well.

The change to MM is stupid +/-1 MM would be the best and safest choice for WG, so let's wait and see.

Same, Happy New Year to all :) 

Good luck on the battlefield fellow tankers.



PanzerKFeldherrnhalle #3 Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:50 PM

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It's commendable that you voice your opinion. However, it's about time people understood (and accepted) that WG's goal isn't balance. Their goal is introducing broken or OP premium tanks that enough people will pay for, and to introduce bad and UP free-to-play tanks that enough people will pay to skip in the X to Y tech trees. Simultaneously, changes to tanks normally entail armour buffs that keep premium ammo flowing. And there's hardly anything relevant to the game anymore. What you have now doesn't need fixing. It's what they aim for.

CorSeD #4 Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostPanzerKFeldherrnhalle, on 08 January 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

It's commendable that you voice your opinion. However, it's about time people understood (and accepted) that WG's goal isn't balance. Their goal is introducing broken or OP premium tanks that enough people will pay for, and to introduce bad and UP free-to-play tanks that enough people will pay to skip in the X to Y tech trees. Simultaneously, changes to tanks normally entail armour buffs that keep premium ammo flowing. And there's hardly anything relevant to the game anymore. What you have now doesn't need fixing. It's what they aim for.

 

It may seem from player side, but to the coin there are two sides. Would be nice to have WG representative here and explaining their own opinion on this gentleman's post. 

And i agree with you on 50 % case that WG is a company and for the company to stay afloat it needs money, and premium tanks give that money. (Don't know how much but it gives.) 

 



arthurwellsley #5 Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:37 PM

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Recent Premium Heavy Tanks

50 TP Prototype = balanced

AMX M4 mle.49 = balanced

Caernarvon AX = balanced

Somua SM = slightly weak

T26E5 = balanced

VK 168.01 Mauerbrecher = weak

 

Object 252U/Defender = completely OP

IS3A = somewhat broken

 

Recent Premium Light tanks (tier VIII)

ELC EVEN 90 = balanced

T92 = balanced

LT-432 = borderline OP for good players only.

 

Recent Premium Medium tanks

Centurion mk5/1 RAAC = balanced

Lorraine 40T = balanced

Progetto M35 mod.46 = balanced

STG = balanced

 

 

Recent Premium TDs

AMX Canon d'assaut 105 = balanced

Kanonjadgpanzer 105 = balanced

Strv S1 = balanced

WZ-120-1G FT = balanced

 

Rheinmetall Skorpion G = the most owned premium tank on EU servers, and yet it does not have an OP win rate.

SU-130PM = slightly OP.

 

21 tanks in that list and I only count 2 namely the Defender/Object 252U and IS3A as balatantly OP, and I am less sure about the IS3A as I do not own one.

 

So 2/21 suggests to me that more of the time balance is decent on recent premium tanks.

 

I still think that premium tanks should be better than the stock version of the tech tree, while not as good as the elite version of the tech tree. By that measure some of the 21 are too strong, but then the tech tree equivalent for some of them is also weak (see as an example AMX AC mle.48).

 


Edited by arthurwellsley, 08 January 2019 - 04:38 PM.


PanzerKFeldherrnhalle #6 Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:25 PM

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CorSed, the people that matter don't follow this forum and aren't interested in what the EU player-base has to say. Likewise, EU representatives are irrelevant in the big scheme of things, not to mention about 75% of them are close to clueless. All it takes is a read of their occasional interventions in the forum...

Arthur, all it takes is 1 or 2 broken tanks to render 11 or 12  uncompetitive, if not unplayable. Defender and LT-432 are good examples. IS-3A is completely overpowered, but it isn't broken. Still, in your list, half of what you consider balanced is either underpowered (AMX 105, Kanon) or overpowered. Balanced and competitive is something like the AMX M449. Very good = Lorr, Progetto, Centurion AX. Overpowered = WZ-120 or IS-3A. Broken = LT-432, Defender. On these lines...

16:31 Added after 6 minutes
Somua, another example of a very good and competitive tank, but not OP nor broken. Bottomline is, they know exactly what is and what isn't acceptable, and their introduction of tanks such as the LT, Defender, IS-3A, or the sale of E25 isn't innocent. What we have now is indeed what they want.

arthurwellsley #7 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:21 PM

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View PostPanzerKFeldherrnhalle, on 08 January 2019 - 04:25 PM, said:

Arthur, all it takes is 1 or 2 broken tanks to render 11 or 12 uncompetitive, if not unplayable. Defender and LT-432 are good examples. IS-3A is completely overpowered, but it isn't broken. Still, in your list, half of what you consider balanced is either underpowered (AMX 105, Kanon) or overpowered. Balanced and competitive is something like the AMX M449. Very good = Lorr, Progetto, Centurion AX. Overpowered = WZ-120 or IS-3A. Broken = LT-432, Defender. On these lines...

Somua, another example of a very good and competitive tank, but not OP nor broken. Bottomline is, they know exactly what is and what isn't acceptable, and their introduction of tanks such as the LT, Defender, IS-3A, or the sale of E25 isn't innocent. What we have now is indeed what they want.

 

I think that you and I have a slightly different view on some tanks.

AMX Canon d'assaut 105 = I only played this on the test server but thought it well balanced, I have never played it on live.

Kanonjadgpanzer 105 = I have also only played this on the test server.

WZ-120-1G FT = I have only played this on the test server.

From my limited play of those vehicles I felt that the AMX was more of a pure bush sniper, and the WZ-120 was more of an assault TD. I thought both fairly balanced for their role. In the tech tree I have the tier X French TD and the tier IX Chinese TD.

 

I agree with your general proposition that it only takes one or two OP tanks to make all the others less worthwhile.

For me that one tank is the Defender/Object 252U which I think has tier 9.5 armour at the front as it is essentially better than the tier IX T-10 tech tree tank, and almost as good as the tier X IS7 tech tree tank with regards to frontal armour.

I do not own an IS3A, and have not played it on the test server and that is why I hesitate to judge it.

I bought an LT-432 and the skill ceiling is high (like the old Hellcat). Good players will wreck havoc in it, but bad players will be punished. That does not fit my definition of "Overpowered", which I define as the item being so good, even the less than competent can succeed in it, which the LT-432 is not.

 

I own the Lorraine 40T and Progetto and while I enjoy them, and think that they are decent, none of the tier VIII mediums are particularly strong, and all are noticeably worse than the tech tree tier IX mediums.

 



PanzerKFeldherrnhalle #8 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:45 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 08 January 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

I think that you and I have a slightly different view on some tanks.

AMX Canon d'assaut 105 = I only played this on the test server but thought it well balanced, I have never played it on live.

Kanonjadgpanzer 105 = I have also only played this on the test server.

WZ-120-1G FT = I have only played this on the test server.

From my limited play of those vehicles I felt that the AMX was more of a pure bush sniper, and the WZ-120 was more of an assault TD. I thought both fairly balanced for their role. In the tech tree I have the tier X French TD and the tier IX Chinese TD.

 

I agree with your general proposition that it only takes one or two OP tanks to make all the others less worthwhile.

For me that one tank is the Defender/Object 252U which I think has tier 9.5 armour at the front as it is essentially better than the tier IX T-10 tech tree tank, and almost as good as the tier X IS7 tech tree tank with regards to frontal armour.

I do not own an IS3A, and have not played it on the test server and that is why I hesitate to judge it.

I bought an LT-432 and the skill ceiling is high (like the old Hellcat). Good players will wreck havoc in it, but bad players will be punished. That does not fit my definition of "Overpowered", which I define as the item being so good, even the less than competent can succeed in it, which the LT-432 is not.

 

I own the Lorraine 40T and Progetto and while I enjoy them, and think that they are decent, none of the tier VIII mediums are particularly strong, and all are noticeably worse than the tech tree tier IX mediums.

 

 

Yes, and it's fine having different perspectives on certain tanks, while I don't disagree with much of what you say, but even if I did that wouldn't be a problem as long as people comment in good spirit (like you do).

I consider broken everything relating to armour-profile, connecting (in comparison) to every other tank in the game, while overpowered is a sum of 3 or 4 characteristics that may or not include an armour profile. Take the Rheinmetall Skorpion G: It has a superb gun, very good mobility, more importantly than mobility it has a turret, and it also has very decent camo. More than just balanced it's undoubtedly better than anything the tech tree has to offer. But is it broken? Not really. Players who make mistakes are immediately punished, and that's how it ought to be. The WZ, on the other hand, has a broken armour profile making it immune to many tier VII and even tier VIII guns, frontally. It isn't a better tank than the Skorpion but it's a broken entry to the game. This distinction matters ...
While completely overpowered (as example), I wouldn't describe the IS-3A as broken, as any tier VIII with 220 or plus pen can in many circumstances outplay it, or at least fight back. Overpowered, surely, because of the gun, but not broken (armour). The Defender on the other hand (as you say) is completely broken. Type 5 (another example) is beyond broken (when this one is a complete freak seeing the HE gun it carries, on top of its armour profile). But they know all of this. There's even a Q & A video where one developer says 'players don't like a balanced game', or something on those lines (thinking of the Russian server, probably, the only one they try to please).

PabloGee #9 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:56 PM

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Somua SM = slightly weak 

 

 

ahahahaha xDDDDD



_bitter_end_ #10 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:09 PM

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One thing i am sure about 2019: Ammo for gold will come back. This is one of the reasons why they "renamed" the old gold ammo to "special ammo" -> to clarify that the reduced damage ammo is not premium, you know...... The true premium ammo will be available for gold and it will do the same damage as normal armor piercing ammo. So we will have a premium ammo and a special ammo too. They will say that with this they will reduce normal damage gold spam, while also leave the opportunity to goldspammers to have ther easy mode ammo. And they will make tons of money with it. Everyone seems to be happy (from WGs pov).

Edited by _bitter_end_, 08 January 2019 - 07:14 PM.


Joggaman #11 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:04 PM

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nc30_guy #12 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:43 PM

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Special kids ammo 25% less damage 30% less cost that's what I see for 2019..... and vehicles too fast for most players ability/connection/game servers.




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