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Premary League and Bot League

MM imbalance

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duijm #41 Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:15 PM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

There is no reason to use this thread for personal insults. The idea is how to limit huge imbalance and make battles interesanting again. If one team win in 4 min with 15:3 this is not a game we like. Players with WR>50 are NOT creditable for that but bots in oposite team which are probably 30% of team. That make huge difference. You can have WR 60% but when you are in such team you can not do anything to change fast lose in 4 minutes. Skill is not the same thing as PR or WR.  MM can balance tanks technicaly based on tier, equ and crew but can not on players. This is where HUGE imbalance come from NOT from 5% of WR difference. I am not insulting bots or we can call it with other names like inexperienced players but they can not be in teams with players 30K battles and playing tier X level. 

 

You are just completely wrong. 

TeessideTintin #42 Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:24 PM

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Maybe I read this wrong but basically the wizard is saying I have to play with scrubs for 1400 more games but he doesn't? Cool story bro.

 

I hope they never introduce skills based MM over and above protecting bottom tiers. I often learned best staying in battle learning from the decent player who was carrying me when I died.


Edited by TeessideTintin, 09 January 2019 - 07:25 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #43 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:20 PM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

 

I do not have problem with my WR nor with skill. I complain to fact that WOT is selling premiums like Tier VIII to players with 2-3K battles and then MM put this player to battle with tier X. This is stupid and unfair and generate imbalance in game.

 

But then WG also sell premium tier 8 to players with 43000+ battles who one could also argue have no place attempting to compete in tier 10 battles.

 

 



Jigabachi #44 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:21 PM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

We are here trying to find out how this game can be balanced again or not?

But that would require all of us to understand what we are talking about. You don't have that qualification yet. You'd first have to understand that you yourself are one of the bots you are talking about and that the battlecount is completely irrelevant (which you yourself perfectly prove, too).



AliceUnchained #45 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:16 PM

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View Post4nt, on 09 January 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

Soo, the effect of premium tanks is quantifiable in relation to player's WR?

 

Pretty much. Most buy them straight away or very early on, without understanding even basic mechanics, having next to no clue how to play properly. Thus you will see many, many players at Tier VIII and higher with abysmal win rates on most, of not all of their higher Tier vehicles. When such players also refuse to learn, to improve, or are simply incapable thereof, you will see them with that same abysmal win rates many thousands of games later.  Now, as for the OP.... (well you can fill in the rest).

ypr765prco #46 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

 

draw it and YOU can be a dinger.



GANDALF_WOT #47 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:28 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 09 January 2019 - 08:20 PM, said:

 

But then WG also sell premium tier 8 to players with 43000+ battles who one could also argue have no place attempting to compete in tier 10 battles.

 

 

 

You really do not understand or what? We all use premiums for crew training and because new prem Tier 8 are mostly OP we earn nice exp. I do not think 3/5/7 MM is fair and challenge but what is here important is that players with 3K battles bring imbalance to team with tier X who are experienced. Is you game the same now compared to when you had 3K battles?
20:37 Added after 8 minutes

View PostJigabachi, on 09 January 2019 - 08:21 PM, said:

But that would require all of us to understand what we are talking about. You don't have that qualification yet. You'd first have to understand that you yourself are one of the bots you are talking about and that the battlecount is completely irrelevant (which you yourself perfectly prove, too).

 

It seems to me that this forum is too much for you to understand. I put here one idea how to improve game and it does not have to be accepted but there is no need to insult. I do not see any sudgestion from you.

NUKLEAR_SLUG #48 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:44 PM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 09:28 PM, said:

 

You really do not understand or what? We all use premiums for crew training and because new prem Tier 8 are mostly OP we earn nice exp. I do not think 3/5/7 MM is fair and challenge but what is here important is that players with 3K battles bring imbalance to team with tier X who are experienced. Is you game the same now compared to when you had 3K battles?

 

What you don't appear to understand is that average players with 3k battles that are not experienced are still more able to be effective in a tier 10 battle than you are with your 43k battles. You bring more imbalance to the team than any new player.

 

No, my game is not the same now as compared to when I had 3000 battles. Yours however I think very much is the same.

 

 



DeadLecter #49 Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:04 PM

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99% of the time bot level players don't really improve over time. Once a bot, always a bot

Everyday I see hundreds of people with over 20000 battles and sub 500 WN8. Which means these guys are not capable of even putting 2 shots in before they die. This alone speaks to how much they can learn through experience. Which is almost nothing. WoT is not a complicated game but in order to get better you need to understand the game mechanics. You need to watch some videos and read some articles. Learn how spotting, bush camping, angling, aiming, penetration work. Otherwise you will suck forever. My first 10k battles I was a pure tomato. Then I found the forums and the Youtube videos and now I can easily pull off 2500+ WN8 with 60% WR (If I play my favorite tanks and not the ones I have to grind) which is better. I didn't win my knowledge of the game from lottery. I put in hard work and some time and learned it. Most people don't want to learn. One obvious example I can bring is when the scout on my team on Lakeville decided to go to swamp side and face tanks 2 tiers above him and when he died he started whining about us being such losers and how we didn't shoot the tanks he spotted. He couldn't even realize that we couldn't have shot those tanks. This is 80% of the players. 10% of players are good in 1 battle and suck in the next 5. The last 10% are the ones who actually play the game.

If you pay attention to after battle results you can see that in almost 90% of battles 3~7 players are actually playing. between 8~12 people die with either 0 damage or maybe 1~2 shots. If we assume the enemy team has 20000 HP, 15000 HP of that is done by 3~7 players. Usually 5 players are good. 5 players take maybe 2 sometimes 1 shot and die. The last 5 either die with 0 damage or only 1 shot. So WoT is mainly played by bot level players and those 10% of good players decide which team wins and loses. It's mostly a 5 v 5 game where the rest are just there to fill the MM and nothing else. With this being said I rarely have problems with MM regarding WR. Some of my tanks have a curse so I can't get a good WR in them despite being really good. And by good I don't mean red line camping or fighting tanks 2 tiers below. I mean good as in fighting the enemies I am supposed to fight and still losing most of the time. 


Edited by DeadLecter, 09 January 2019 - 10:07 PM.


sgtYester #50 Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:17 PM

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why not simply make a per tier based minimum damage /xp?  u wanna go to tier 6?  500 avg damage and 400 avp xp  ... tier 7?  700 avg dmaage and 450 avg xp

 

 

something like that



Nishi_Kinuyo #51 Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:35 PM

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And what about platooning?

What if I want to platoon with two of my tomato friends?



Jigabachi #52 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:05 AM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 09:28 PM, said:

It seems to me that this forum is too much for you to understand. I put here one idea how to improve game and it does not have to be accepted but there is no need to insult.

Your idea still wouldn't improve the game.

And how exactly is addressing the simple fact that you are one of the very bad players you are talking about and the fact that your suggestion is, for obvious reasons, pretty silly... how is that an insult? Please enlighten me.

 

Block Quote

  I do not see any sudgestion from you.

I didn't post any suggestion. First you need to understand the one you came up with...



GANDALF_WOT #53 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:44 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 10 January 2019 - 12:05 AM, said:

Your idea still wouldn't improve the game.

And how exactly is addressing the simple fact that you are one of the very bad players you are talking about and the fact that your suggestion is, for obvious reasons, pretty silly... how is that an insult? Please enlighten me.

 

I didn't post any suggestion. First you need to understand the one you came up with...

 

I am so sorry  Jigabachi but I can not enlight you even with my magic.
23:50 Added after 6 minutes
So as I understand from wot trols and WR doctors with wot MM everything is just fine...  Ok then lets enjoy some battles.

Jigabachi #54 Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:31 AM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 10 January 2019 - 12:44 AM, said:

So as I understand from wot trols and WR doctors with wot MM everything is just fine...  Ok then lets enjoy some battles.

No, you still don't understand anything and you didn't manage to properly answer a single post.

Given your dumb conclusion here, it's evident that you don't even want to understand what people try to tell you. Classic ignorance, we had this countless times.

 

Sooo... again, in very simple words. Please answer the questions:

1. You complain about bots. Do you realize that you are a botlevel player yourself?

2. You suggested to separate players based on the amount of matches they played. Do you realize that the matchcount is a completely useless statistic, as there are many botlevel players with >10k matches? 

 


Edited by Jigabachi, 10 January 2019 - 10:41 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #55 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:23 AM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 10 January 2019 - 12:44 AM, said:

 

I am so sorry  Jigabachi but I can not enlight you even with my magic.
23:50 Added after 6 minutes
So as I understand from wot trols and WR doctors with wot MM everything is just fine...  Ok then lets enjoy some battles.

 

You still don't get it.

 

You want to put limits on new players to prevent them getting into higher tier games because you believe that their inexperience is a problem and allowing them to play tier 8 tanks ruins the game. Sure, a new player might be out of their depth at tier 10 but of the choice of having a new player on my side or yourself I would take the new player every time. A new player might at least learn something and stand a chance of improving. You however have demonstrated time after time for over 43000 battles that you have learnt exactly nothing. What right do you have to say a new player should not be allowed to play high tier games when you have clearly shown that you have no idea how to play high tier games?

 

It's not the new players that you should be demanding WG prevent from playing the high tier MM, you should be demanding they prevent you.



Tigerfish_Torpedo #56 Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:29 AM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 09 January 2019 - 12:56 AM, said:

The solution to this terrible MM imbalance solution could be in 2 Leauges: Primary League and Bot League.

 

What a pathetic idea. What would that solve? Would it not just make more sense to base the matchup on player ratings? Bots rarely have 5-6k ratings, and then the decent players would see less 2k rated players sitting in top tier heavy tanks. 

 

Problem solved! … and you call yourself Gandalf? Really?



GANDALF_WOT #57 Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:51 AM

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This idea with 2 leagues on some criteria (like example 10K battles) goes for bether quality and excitement in standard random battles and should eliminate frustration with current MM. I am personally not complaining and I do not understand why some players here have taken that personally. WOT becomes quite complex game for new players so they will have more safe enviroment to get some experience before pushed to lions.

Jigabachi #58 Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:38 AM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 11 January 2019 - 12:51 AM, said:

This idea with 2 leagues on some criteria (like example 10K battles) goes for bether quality and excitement in standard random battles and should eliminate frustration with current MM. I am personally not complaining and I do not understand why some players here have taken that personally. WOT becomes quite complex game for new players so they will have more safe enviroment to get some experience before pushed to lions.

You just keep repeating yourself.

Is it really THAT difficult for you to simply read some posts, think about them for a while and then answer them?

We're talking about basic human communication here...



GANDALF_WOT #59 Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:11 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 11 January 2019 - 01:38 AM, said:

You just keep repeating yourself.

Is it really THAT difficult for you to simply read some posts, think about them for a while and then answer them?

We're talking about basic human communication here...

then you get off my back because forum is not personal and find somebody else to hang on or I will report your to mederators - you have no basic communication culture. My advise: go see your schrink. btw your rating is too average to give advises to others.

qpranger #60 Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:13 PM

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View PostGANDALF_WOT, on 11 January 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

btw your rating is too average to give advises to others.

 

True, his rating is far removed from yours :)





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