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Everything that's wrong with laser drone class.


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YuSless #1 Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:10 AM

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So for those who ask for replays, here's mine:

 

http://wotreplays.eu...ss-type_5_ke-ho

 

So please explain how when I'm under a bridge, in a tiny tank, I can be artied with better precision that a laser guided drone. 

 

The angle arrow clearly shows that the shot went through the bridge.

 

Happens around 12:35



DorsVenabiIi #2 Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:22 AM

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I know it's retarded . Arty is the biggest disease in any game ever. 

 

 


Edited by DorsVenabiIi, 09 January 2019 - 02:22 AM.


Soup_Potato #3 Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:27 AM

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When the smoke clears out, you can see the crater right next to you. The arty splashed you. You being a tier 4 light tank and Hummel being a tier 6 arty it makes perfect sense.

 

First I was thought this is going to be a ''shot through the bridge'' issue as arty shells (pretty sure HE in general) can damage you through a wall or bridge that is less than certain amount of cm thick. Can't remember if it's 0.5m, 1m or 2m though.

 

But about this replay, absolutely nothing wrong, the arty shell landed next to you and as the mechanics dictate, the splash killed you.

01:28 Added after 1 minute

View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 09 January 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

I know it's retarded . Arty is the biggest disease in any game ever. 

Weren't you supposed to leave the game already, or another ban on OW? :child:



OIias_of_Sunhillow #4 Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:30 AM

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View PostDorsVenabiIi, on 09 January 2019 - 01:22 AM, said:

I know it's retarded . Arty is the biggest disease in any game ever. 

 

 

 

 

Scarlatina is bad too. 

 

 

Or is that semolina...   :unsure:



Dorander #5 Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:06 AM

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View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

 

First I was thought this is going to be a ''shot through the bridge'' issue as arty shells (pretty sure HE in general) can damage you through a wall or bridge that is less than certain amount of cm thick. Can't remember if it's 0.5m, 1m or 2m though.

 

 

 

Wait what? This is either a misunderstanding or a weird example generalized. HE can't damage you straight through solid objects.

 

What happens when a HE shot does not do direct impact damage, is that the shot follows the rules for a non-penetrating hit on any target tanks within its splash radius. Basically an explosion occurs where the shell lands, it has a certain radius, and anything within that range is going to take damage according to a certain formula. You can google that formula pretty easily, I'd copy it if it were in a copy-pastable format rather than a fancy looking picture...

 

The formula for damage calculated for a nonpenetrating hit means that damage gets halved (for being a non-penetrating hit), there's a factor involved for the distance between point of origin and maximum explosion radius compared to point of context (which is to say, the closer you are to the origin of the explosion the more damage you take) which is then mitigated by armour thickness (modified by spall liner and a constant value) by a flat value.

 

The only way in which some object fails to protect you from HE splash damage, is if some other part of your tank is within the explosion radius, at which point damage gets calculated according to the above formula. This could occur when you are next to low obstacles for example, or if the shell hits some overhanging beam, or any other imaginable situation in which your tank is within the orb-shaped explosion radius of where the shell lands. It should not be the case that this orb fully penetrates solid objects of any thickness.

 

Destructable walls might be a different story, I am not actually sure how THOSE work in regards to some shells, but I don't classify those as solid objects so it might be that where this idea goes off.


Edited by Dorander, 09 January 2019 - 04:06 AM.


Soup_Potato #6 Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:33 AM

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View PostDorander, on 09 January 2019 - 04:06 AM, said:

 

Wait what? This is either a misunderstanding or a weird example generalized. HE can't damage you straight through solid objects..


The latter.

 

I realized later that normal HE doesn't have enough splash radius to cause damage through an object. Arty shells on the other hand do and indeed cause damage through for example a bridge on Minsk. It was while back when this was brought up and following that I tested it on Minks. A light tank under the bridge, and I landed a shell on top of the bridge causing damage and stun to that light tank. AFAI remember (and going off from what I remember being discussed then) the mechanics ignore certain thickness of solid object (be it 0.5m, 1m or 2m) and damages and stuns through it based on the formula. You can test it or I can help you test it now in game if possible. We could see if it still works. I'm 99,99% sure that it damaged through the bridge on Minsk. Unfortunately I haven't been able to replicate it in live game since then.



Soup_Potato #7 Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:56 AM

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Now I just went and tested it. Took a while to get someone with me at this time. But it does work. Shots do cause damage through solid objects. AFAIK it has to do with the thickness of the object. The Minsk bridge is pretty thin and the splash radius reaches the ground and indeed does damage to a tank below the bridge. This test was done with GW Panther.

 

inb4 the rage about game mechanics. :D

 

Replay: http://wotreplays.eu...to-m26_pershing



YuSless #8 Posted 09 January 2019 - 05:09 AM

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View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 02:27 AM, said:

When the smoke clears out, you can see the crater right next to you. The arty splashed you. You being a tier 4 light tank and Hummel being a tier 6 arty it makes perfect sense.

 

Actually this is another thing wrong - arty should never be two tiers above the lowest tier, then splash wouldn't kill. However I see no crater and if you follow the direction indicator it is a direct hit through the bridge.

 

I realise arty aren't going away so I'm not one of those that say get rid of them (although I wouldn't miss them of course), but having potentially three arty two tiers above you doesn't really help their case. I thought the whole point of the rebalance was to stop one-shots etc., but a Tier VI can still one-shot a Tier IV with the current matchmaking. It just really sucks the enjoyment out of the game.



WoT_RU_Doing #9 Posted 09 January 2019 - 05:15 AM

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View PostYuSless, on 09 January 2019 - 04:09 AM, said:

 

Actually this is another thing wrong - arty should never be two tiers above the lowest tier, then splash wouldn't kill. However I see no crater and if you follow the direction indicator it is a direct hit through the bridge.

 

I realise arty aren't going away so I'm not one of those that say get rid of them (although I wouldn't miss them of course), but having potentially three arty two tiers above you doesn't really help their case. I thought the whole point of the rebalance was to stop one-shots etc., but a Tier VI can still one-shot a Tier IV with the current matchmaking. It just really sucks the enjoyment out of the game.

 

In my view, that's what they actually did wrong in the rebalance. Rather than make it all complicated with new stun mechanics etc, I thought they should just try changing the MM for arty to -1/+2 (or the other way around, which ever means you can only meet 1 tier lower but two higher)

Soup_Potato #10 Posted 09 January 2019 - 05:31 AM

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View PostYuSless, on 09 January 2019 - 05:09 AM, said:

However I see no crater and if you follow the direction indicator it is a direct hit through the bridge.

 

I won't answer to rest of the talk about arty since there is a dedicated thread where you can go talk about it.

 

What comes to your situation, the crater is actually there. If you aren't able to see it, your terrain settings are set too low for it to render there. I can't remember which setting it exactly is but by tweaking them you should be able to make it visible and see it right next to you. The hit indicator shows the exact direction the arty shot from. Even if the shot lands to your left (like in this case) the indicator will still point directly at the arty location even if it's right in front of you. This is what causes your misunderstanding it seems.



YuSless #11 Posted 09 January 2019 - 05:58 AM

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View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 05:31 AM, said:

What comes to your situation, the crater is actually there. If you aren't able to see it, your terrain settings are set too low for it to render there. I can't remember which setting it exactly is but by tweaking them you should be able to make it visible and see it right next to you. 

 

Please could you point me to those settings as every graphics setting I have is on Ultra or Maximum, depending on the parameter. Every single one. Details is set to Improved not Standard.

 

I know it's a pain but if you could screen grab a shot with the crater that would be great, as I just do not see it. Surely the replay plays back at the same resolution that I have set for the main game?

 

Here's what I see:

keho crop.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by YuSless, 09 January 2019 - 06:01 AM.


Soup_Potato #12 Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:06 AM

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View PostYuSless, on 09 January 2019 - 05:58 AM, said:

 

Please could you point me to those settings as every graphics setting I have is on Ultra or Maximum, depending on the parameter. Every single one. Details is set to Improved not Standard.

 

I know it's a pain but if you could screen grab a shot with the crater that would be great, as I just do not see it. Surely the replay plays back at the same resolution that I have set for the main game?

 

What is it that makes people not see these things. If I fully convince myself that there is no colour red in the existence, do I stop seeing colour red?

 

Spoiler

 



SuedKAT #13 Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:09 AM

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I recall a thread similar to this and yes the bridge is to thin to stop arty shells, I guess we're thinking of the same thread:

View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 04:33 AM, said:

It was while back when this was brought up

 

To avoid arty you need to be unspotted, inside a building or be located behind a freaking huge mountain since most got the ability to land hits on you regardless if you hug a medium sized mountain.



YuSless #14 Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:14 AM

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View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 06:06 AM, said:

 

What is it that makes people not see these things. If I fully convince myself that there is no colour red in the existence, do I stop seeing colour red?

 

 

I guess your definition of crater is different to mine.



Soup_Potato #15 Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:23 AM

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View PostYuSless, on 09 January 2019 - 06:14 AM, said:

I guess your definition of crater is different to mine.

 

I'd love to hear your definition of a crater. After that describe how that thing doesn't fit the definition and then follow up with how the graphics engine should correctly present a crater on the ground.



YuSless #16 Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:31 AM

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View PostSoup_Potato, on 09 January 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

 

I'd love to hear your definition of a crater. After that describe how that thing doesn't fit the definition and then follow up with how the graphics engine should correctly present a crater on the ground.

 

Well your screen grab shows some ground which may or may not have some slight discolouration. I don't describe a crater as a bit of ground which may be a bit darker than the other bit of ground, but as a bowl-shaped depression.

slitth #17 Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:45 AM

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Point A.

http://forum.worldof...cussion-thread/

 

Point B - In other news

Tier 6 kills a tier 4 (Type 5 Ke-Ho) .... So? How is this news?

Tier 6 kills a tier 4 (Type 5 Ke-Ho) in one shot .... Unlucky, I bet it was a derp gun.

Tier 6 kills a tier 4 (Type 5 Ke-Ho) in one shot with splash damage ... Definitely a derp gun, but I still do not see how this is news.

Tier 6 artillery kills a tier 4 (Type 5 Ke-Ho) in one shot with splash damage ...(warning, following statement contains sarcasm)... Wait it was artillery? The horror! The horror! This should not be allowed.

 

Point C - Crater models

Really it now a problem that a crater is not visible enough?

 

Seriously as soon as the picture shows that the Type 5 Ke-Ho was in a position where artillery could angle the shot close enough that the splash could hit it without any obstacles the topic became moot.

Low tier tank thought is was safe and in cover, but died because it wasn't. Moving on

 


Edited by slitth, 09 January 2019 - 12:38 PM.


malachi6 #18 Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:10 PM

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Oddly, you have zero battles in arty.  So, your experience is one sided.  Agreed, arty is problematic.  However, a little understanding of how it works can remove such rant posts and enable discussion rather than complaint.

 

 



laulaur #19 Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View Postmalachi6, on 09 January 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Oddly, you have zero battles in arty.  So, your experience is one sided.  Agreed, arty is problematic.  However, a little understanding of how it works can remove such rant posts and enable discussion rather than complaint.

 

 

 

I have some battles in arty and i can tell you that is the most boring and broken class in the game. It is the ultimate class for griefing other people and it has ZERO realism: arty shooting over a small mountain at only 500m straight in the head of a moving tank? Dealing damage through houses and solid cover without affecting (destroying) that solid cover?

Really? What is this? Even the coyote from Bugs Bunny had more realistic physics ffs....



kubawt112 #20 Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:52 PM

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View Postlaulaur, on 09 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

(...)

Really? What is this? Even the coyote from Bugs Bunny had more realistic physics ffs....

 

Speaking of Wile E. Cotote, it'd be a massive improvement if arty randomly blew up. I mean, without giving it proper encouragment, that is.

 

It'd still be broken, but at least some games would be free of them. Practically there'd be little difference between that and getting artied/TD-ed when you try advancing beyond the middle ridge of a map.






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