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How to angle my tank against all sorts of ammo?

angle ammo gold special he apcr regular armour

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Luctor_ #1 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:02 AM

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"eekeeboo#20

 

No it's about the fact of having to reply to over 10 threads from people complaining about the same thing (right or wrong) when 1 thread will do. Monitoring multiple threads because people are too lazy to read before they type. 

Something I want to encourage is constructive discussions, not just complaining. Informed decision making, not just agreeing because it fits your viewpoint. 

I gave people an opportunity to make this thread constructive and it was wasted by the number of posts needed to un-approve. 

Please refer to the forum rules and think carefully what you say and how you say it when making threads like these. I suggest asking how to better angle or when it's useful vs not, what ammunition types it affects, best tanks for it etc. Not just a complaint because you can't face tank your way to victory. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------
In repsond to 'Why angle' which was locked due to non-constructive criticism 
Sorry, I could not find a pinned topic (as I did not find that the first time either) on the forum regarding armour, angles and ammunition. Unfortunately there was no link in that post suggesting to the pinned topic. At least I was pointed in the right direction so I try to make a new post for it, more constructive. I'm glad to be heard seriously about this complaint/frustration and lck of skill. 
The assumption to be lazy. Complaining because there is no victory... yeah... not sure what to think of those, it doens't feel good though.
But here goes; 
 
Informed descision making:
Im afraid to take out my heavy tank(s). For instance my first tier 10 heavy: E100. Nostalgia! I just don't know how to play it anymore these days. I feel slow, stupid and underperforming (as an average player) with it. Though I really loved this tank years back; It could bounce, it could take a beating, got punished while overextending and got swarmed by 3 meds to be taken out. 
How do I angle my E100 versus the current ammo in these corridor maps? Facing a Jpz E100, shooting regular ammo, HE ammo and special ammo?
Regular: I try to turn my turret about 45 degrees, so the corner of the turret if facing the barrel of the JPZ E100. Most of the time it wil bounce, unless the police bar will get hit. Ofcourse try to move backwards when the JPZE100 is fireing. Bait and shoot afterwards
HE: Same for the turret, try to face with its corner. Formost try to move backwards, but with a hit, soak the damage. move the turret left to right (or vica versa) when reloading. 
Special ammo: Get lucky to bounce while moving the turret, hide, bait, try to peekaboo after it shoots. But as soon as the E100 shows its turret cheak, it gets penned, pretty hard. not sure how to use its armour then. 
 
And other example is facing a Type 5 Heavy.
With regular HE its a trade, but try to hide as much as possible. Peekaboo ofcourse, angle the turret, but its HE so.. alway taking damage, hope for a low-roll. 
Hope to get the side of the Type 5's  hull in front of my tank and shoot the little weakspot next to the frontplate.
Im at a total loss besides hide or run away when a Type 5 goes on special ammo +300 damage. Really not feeling benificial to my team then. 
 
It fits my viewpoint, because its my play, game, battle:
I have a hard time with the special ammo and don't know how to angle my tank against it. Any ideas?
I shoot regular ammo, sometimes 1 or 2 special ammo to scare them of,  but regular because special ammo is too expensive. I try to save for more tanks, repairs for higher tiers and when equipment is on sale to purchase that in bulk, really I need the credits on tier 10.
Ofcourse I like to win, in the case of a JPZ E100 I feel I have a chance, but not with aType 5, hidden FV4005, ...183.
 
How do you guys deal with this? 
There are a lot more tanks that deal with these situations, but the list gets unending in this first post, therefore  just the E100, this tank just feels obsolete nowadays.  


HassenderZerhacker #2 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:41 AM

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simple:

good players that actively play E100 and other high tier German tanks are pretty rare.

they rather play Russian tanks with rounded turrets that easily bounce APCR and where landing HEAT shots is not easy due to the rounded turret.

 

how did I deal with this:

sold the E100.



Spartan_93 #3 Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:50 AM

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How to deal with it:

 

Take cover instead of trying to bounce it.



Exozen #4 Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:59 AM

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View PostSpartan_93, on 10 January 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

How to deal with it:

 

Take cover instead of trying to bounce it.

 

Pretty much , only two tanks that can stand and take punishment are the Maus and the E3 , and even then there are ways to destroy both, no tank in this game is invincible, and HE is becoming more populare again , not only true high caliber guns such as the Jap heavys , but arty is doing a slight comeback because of the missions.

Darky1029 #5 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:15 AM

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I've been playing some faster heavies, since i still havent done any heavy tank or arty missions, and boy, is it hard to bounce stuff if you are not driving something that can atleast side scrape large calibre shells.

Mostly this - 

"How to deal with it:

 

Take cover instead of trying to bounce it.''



Bora_BOOM #6 Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

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Sometimes the best angling is to angle your tank 180° and change your position.

Edited by Bora_BOOM, 10 January 2019 - 11:23 AM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:34 PM

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Know what you fear. It's the only thing. If that is the Type 5 HE, make sure he gets more armor to face to roll less. If it's the 750 alpha AP firing gun next to the Type 5 that can pen you if you turn towards the Type 5. Or the HEAT firing K-91 somewhere behind them with a high ROF and arty on top if it. You can only pick one to focus your armor on, and it's simply down to who you don't want to get hit by until you can get in a better position. If you gotta take hits either way that is more or less at the same time. 

 

And once in a better spot. It's again down to what hits you. If I have skirts etc and they use HEAT. Tease and hope the impact angle is too big, or the travel distance from plate to armor is too big. If it's just the Type 5 HE or the 183 HESH, then the only thing you can do is force him to overexpose to get hits on you, and hope your arty or support guns can help etc when he does. And if he has to overexpose, you have more time to hit him back before he is back in cover during his reload. And don't have to push into his support lane vs the gun you might fear more. Now that's not easy to pull off every game depending on the area you fight in. But if it's on the banana road and he holds his corner? I'm not gonna drive out to get shots on him. I'll gladly wait for him to feel confident to go down it. Not even showing my side then. 

 



TheDrownedApe #8 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:48 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 10 January 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

But if it's on the banana road and he holds his corner? I'm not gonna drive out to get shots on him. I'll gladly wait for him to feel confident to go down it. Not even showing my side then.

 

 

 

I saw 3 tanks doing this the other day. There was a type 5 on the enemy list and he wasn't spotted. So a IS-7, Jpe100 and an ST-1 parked on their corner of the banana road with nothing facing them. They were all fearing the type 5, that wasn't spotted, was hiding just beyond the corner to hambush them.  The hill and 1/2 line got murdered whilst these fools just waited for nothing. I ended up pushing the banana road in my S**tbarn to find it empty as the Type 5 was in base, but by then it was too late. :(


 

It's the fear of the Type HE and the unknown damage (from 300-1700ish) that puts people off; which is why the tank is awful



eekeeboo #9 Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:27 PM

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Edit to prevent accusations and to not confuse people who can't add context to a picture. 

 

So first response will be: 

 

What type of ammo are you trying to bounce, side scraping and angling yourself is the future. Even if you have no building to hide your lower front plate, angling it is still better than not. Try to encourage your enemy to panic or fire pre-emtpively into your nice angled or slopey armour. 

 

For HEAT, you need to try and encourage the enemy to shoot into spaced armour and tracks, avoid presenting flat surfaces wherever possible! You won't achieve this all the time but it is doable. One mod i used when i set on the journey to improve was something similar to this but far more basic: 

 

Untitled.png

 

That's the basics and I apologise for those but in case anyone who didn't know. 

 

Next, for things like your type 5 heavy, first thing, is there a rush to engage him? Is there a reason you REALLY need to show a flat panel or more of your tank to fire before he does? Even angling against HE will mitigate than if you give a nice flat panel like the front of your turret. 

 

Against big scary tanks, try not to get yourself into a position where they can fire freely at you from range from relative safety, not always possible, but it should be an attempt regardless. 

 

Something I feel many people don't do anymore and I used to see it all the time, do not be afraid to wiggle your tank, don't be afraid to rock back and forth with your vehicle and make it harder for the enemy to find that perfect weak spot, make it harder for them to hit your turret by wiggling some more or trying to put your barrel in the way. It won't work every time but the attitude helps and even 1 round stopped is better than not trying at all. 

 

As mentioned above, WoT can be about patience and E100 is a tank that excels in patient play, solo yolo hero and you'll be free xp. But if there's no urgent need to advance, just wait, shoot at another target. If you can hold that corner for your team vs multiple enemies you're doing more for your team than dying by getting off 1 shell of damage and taking 1-6 in return. 

 

The thing with tanks like the E100 and other vehicles is they were introduced in a time of very different play styles of the community, they can still work, but they are not as strong as they used to be. These days mobility is a greater commodity than armour and alpha. This is not the case for all maps, and your E100 can still have an outstanding game if you stick to your tank's strengths. 



DaMP13R #10 Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:15 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Something I feel many people don't do anymore and I used to see it all the time, do not be afraid to wiggle your tank, don't be afraid to rock back and forth with your vehicle and make it harder for the enemy to find that perfect weak spot, make it harder for them to hit your turret by wiggling some more or trying to put your barrel in the way. It won't work every time but the attitude helps and even 1 round stopped is better than not trying at all. 

 

This so much, was grinding tortoise recently and made it very difficult for people to land shots on the hatch by rocking at an angle and putting the gun up in the air. Even in the Type 5 slightly turning the turret in time with shots can make you bounce so much more HEAT, surprise myself how much HEAT it bounces just by moving at the right times. Object v4 is the same now that people know how to pen it, just rock around and wave the gun. Because there is less of this going on it also means many people aren't comfortable when in those situations and often mess up their shots. It's been a long long time since I've come across an E5 player trying to block their cupola with their gun or attempt anything other than W then S constantly which is very predictable to land shots. 

 

The E100 these days I don't play much because there are imo better tanks to play in the meta but when I do play it I play the tank more to trade with smaller alpha than to rely on it to bounce something. Idk, tank isn't that strong but can still pull 3-4k damage games with a few kills but it takes a lot of care to play vs some other tanks.

 



Nazgarth #11 Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:33 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

So first response will be:

 

What type of ammo are you trying to bounce, side scraping and angling yourself is the future. Even if you have no building to hide your lower front plate, angling it is still better than not. Try to encourage your enemy to panic or fire pre-emtpively into your nice angled or slopey armour.

 

For HEAT, you need to try and encourage the enemy to shoot into spaced armour and tracks, avoid presenting flat surfaces wherever possible! You won't achieve this all the time but it is doable. One mod i used when i set on the journey to improve was something similar to this but far more basic:

 

That's the basics and I apologise for those but in case anyone who didn't know.

 

Next, for things like your type 5 heavy, first thing, is there a rush to engage him? Is there a reason you REALLY need to show a flat panel or more of your tank to fire before he does? Even angling against HE will mitigate than if you give a nice flat panel like the front of your turret.

 

Against big scary tanks, try not to get yourself into a position where they can fire freely at you from range from relative safety, not always possible, but it should be an attempt regardless.

 

Something I feel many people don't do anymore and I used to see it all the time, do not be afraid to wiggle your tank, don't be afraid to rock back and forth with your vehicle and make it harder for the enemy to find that perfect weak spot, make it harder for them to hit your turret by wiggling some more or trying to put your barrel in the way. It won't work every time but the attitude helps and even 1 round stopped is better than not trying at all.

 

As mentioned above, WoT can be about patience and E100 is a tank that excels in patient play, solo yolo hero and you'll be free xp. But if there's no urgent need to advance, just wait, shoot at another target. If you can hold that corner for your team vs multiple enemies you're doing more for your team than dying by getting off 1 shell of damage and taking 1-6 in return.

 

The thing with tanks like the E100 and other vehicles is they were introduced in a time of very different play styles of the community, they can still work, but they are not as strong as they used to be. These days mobility is a greater commodity than armour and alpha. This is not the case for all maps, and your E100 can still have an outstanding game if you stick to your tank's strengths.

 

Interesting post.

 

Are those Screenshots from your client? Curious as reload timers are an illegal mod.... at least according to EU website fair play policy.


 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/fair-play-policy-update-jul-2018/


 

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/article/10241/


 


Edited by Nazgarth, 10 January 2019 - 02:37 PM.


panter22 #12 Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:40 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

Interesting post.

 

Are those Screenshots from your client? Curious as reload timers are an illegal mod.... at least according to EU website fair play policy.


 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/fair-play-policy-update-jul-2018/


 

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/article/10241/


 

 

Ya you right what happened to fair play policy oh wait It does not exist

Bora_BOOM #13 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:00 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

Interesting post.

 

Are those Screenshots from your client? Curious as reload timers are an illegal mod.... at least according to EU website fair play policy.


 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/fair-play-policy-update-jul-2018/


 

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/article/10241/


 

 

View Postpanter22, on 10 January 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

 

Ya you right what happened to fair play policy oh wait It does not exist

 

Link to the image "....tanksmod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/solodamage.png "

 

As far as I see it is from 2015.

So I would say no, not his screenshots. You might first check as I did, then you wouldn't doubt and your post wouldn't have an accusation flavor.  :B

 

Edit: Fixed the link.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 10 January 2019 - 03:49 PM.


Balc0ra #14 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:00 PM

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View PostTheDrownedApe, on 10 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

 

I saw 3 tanks doing this the other day. There was a type 5 on the enemy list and he wasn't spotted. So a IS-7, Jpe100 and an ST-1 parked on their corner of the banana road with nothing facing them

 

​In a 3 vs 1 I would push and get in his face expecting them to follow if I knew he was alone. Taking the hit and get those 3 guns working elsewhere on the map later. Heck I've even done that in a tier 8 HT when the tier X's refused.  In a 1 vs 1 less so. Or any place he has a distnace I need to cover to get close to him. Late game or when you team wins the 3 lane etc, you can push around the middle area and cut the last corner in to him and get close without doing bad trades along the way. But I don't push down there alone or show my side even vs a Type 5. 

Edited by Balc0ra, 10 January 2019 - 03:06 PM.


Dava_117 #15 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

Interesting post.

 

Are those Screenshots from your client? Curious as reload timers are an illegal mod.... at least according to EU website fair play policy.


 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/fair-play-policy-update-jul-2018/


 

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/article/10241/


 

 

You can see the player name on the bar just above the HP bar. So it's not our moderator or at least not the same account.

Guess he just googled for a couple of images...

 

On topic, E100 armour is not as reliable as Maus or IS-4. 

I'm experimenting in those days about angling it, as I freshly bought it, and have to say there are a lot of pixelshot on that tank that makes armour unreliable even when well angled. But is not such a problem considering that the 15cm can outtrade basically everything with the right shell. 

You better trade than tanking in E100. This doesn't mean you should recklessy stand in the open shooting HE, but that you should not be too worried of getting a 320 alpha HEAT if you can pay beack with 750 alpha or a 450 splash with HE.


Edited by Dava_117, 10 January 2019 - 03:04 PM.


Nazgarth #16 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:06 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 10 January 2019 - 03:00 PM, said:

 

 

Link to the image: https://tanksmod.com.../solodamage.png

 

As far as I see it is from 2015.

So I would say no, not his screenshots. You might first check as I did, then you wouldn't doubt and your post wouldn't have an accusation flavor.  :B

 

Nah not proof it is isn't his client really. Especially if hes getting screenshots of this mod directly from site. LOL But it is an illegal mod and he shouldn't post it here either way, especially as a WG staff member. He is currently naming and shaming someone for using an illegal mod, as well as advertising said mod.


 

 


 

Unfortunately for him he is in the wrong for the second time within a matter of days from coming here, see IS3A thread in announcements section.

14:07 Added after 1 minute

View PostDava_117, on 10 January 2019 - 03:03 PM, said:

 

You can see the player name on the bar just above the HP bar. So it's not our moderator or at least not the same account.

Guess he just googled for a couple of images...

 

On topic, E100 armour is not as reliable as Maus or IS-4.

I'm experimenting in those days about angling it, as I freshly bought it, and have to say there are a lot of pixelshot on that tank that makes armour unreliable even when well angled. But is not such a problem considering that the 15cm can outtrade basically everything with the right shell.

You better trade than tanking in E100. This doesn't mean you should recklessy stand in the open shooting HE, but that you should not be too worried of getting a 320 alpha HEAT if you can pay beack with 750 alpha or a 450 splash with HE.

 

Such a thing as multiple accounts, and watching replays with mods installed FYI, that's why I purposely stated client, not account.

Edited by Nazgarth, 10 January 2019 - 03:11 PM.


Geno1isme #17 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:09 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

Even angling against HE will mitigate than if you give a nice flat panel like the front of your turret. 

 

Wrong. Angling/sidescraping is 100% useless against HE splash damage. Even worse, if you angle/sidescrape he can potentially splash into your weak side armor.

It is a somewhat different story when dealing with HESH (or other high-penetration HE rounds), as angles are taken into account for HE penetration checks. But the Types with just 75mm are unlikely to pen you frontally no matter what (unless you're in a Grille or something else with absolutely no armor).



Dava_117 #18 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:13 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 10 January 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

 

Wrong. Angling/sidescraping is 100% useless against HE splash damage. Even worse, if you angle/sidescrape he can potentially splash into your weak side armor.

It is a somewhat different story when dealing with HESH (or other high-penetration HE rounds), as angles are taken into account for HE penetration checks. But the Types with just 75mm are unlikely to pen you frontally no matter what (unless you're in a Grille or something else with absolutely no armor).

 

In the case of E100 angling is actually beneficial. Hull sides are completely covered by spaced armours or track and angling the turret may help to prevent the HE shell to splash the hull roof. You can almost half the damage by doing this (from around 600 to around 350 in my experience).

Edited by Dava_117, 10 January 2019 - 03:13 PM.


eekeeboo #19 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:19 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

Interesting post.

 

Are those Screenshots from your client? Curious as reload timers are an illegal mod.... at least according to EU website fair play policy.


 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/fair-play-policy-update-jul-2018/


 

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/article/10241/


 

 

  No those links are from a google search you can readily do yourself by Google searching the image. But thank-you for asking. 

As highlighted below your question, it helps to look up the things that you could use. And note the mod that is banned and the mod that isn't, in that image. Not put into context the age of the image and the context of the thread. But sure instead of accepting angling works and try to address the issue, you can complain at fair play policy... Your choice. 

 

View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:06 PM, said:

 

Nah not proof it is isn't his client really. Especially if hes getting screenshots of this mod directly from site. LOL But it is an illegal mod and he shouldn't post it here either way, especially as a WG staff member. He is currently naming and shaming someone for using an illegal mod, as well as advertising said mod.

 

Unfortunately for him he is in the wrong for the second time within a matter of days from coming here, see IS3A thread in announcements section.

14:07 Added after 1 minute

 

Such a thing as multiple accounts, and watching replays with mods installed FYI, that's why I purposely stated client, not account.

 

OR you can google search image and find it yourself. Instead of looking to witch hunt the CM, try to open your mind the possibility you haven't got the whole picture. 

Wrong for the second time in 2 days, how so? 

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 10 January 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

Wrong. Angling/sidescraping is 100% useless against HE splash damage. Even worse, if you angle/sidescrape he can potentially splash into your weak side armor.

It is a somewhat different story when dealing with HESH (or other high-penetration HE rounds), as angles are taken into account for HE penetration checks. But the Types with just 75mm are unlikely to pen you frontally no matter what (unless you're in a Grille or something else with absolutely no armor).

 

Here's a few links you may find useful: 

shoot a tank in the tracks with HE (which happens with angling), Now shoot a tank in the turret or front with HE and see the difference. 

 

https://worldoftanks...e-explanation/ 

http://wiki.wargamin...anics#HE_Shells

 


Edited by eekeeboo, 10 January 2019 - 03:26 PM.


Nazgarth #20 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:32 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

  No those links are from a google search you can readily do yourself by Google searching the image. But thank-you for asking.

As highlighted below your question, it helps to look up the things that you could use. And note the mod that is banned and the mod that isn't in that image.

 

 

OR you can google search image and find it yourself. Instead of looking to witch hunt the CM, try to open your mind the possibility you haven't got the whole picture.

Wrong for the second time in 2 days, how so?

 

 

Here's a few links you may find useful:

shoot a tank in the tracks with HE (which happens with angling), Now shoot a tank in the turret or front with HE and see the difference.

 

https://worldoftanks...ge-explanation/

http://wiki.wargamin...anics#HE_Shells

 

 

 

Why I should have to search third party websites to see where you got a screenshot containing illegal mods from? LOL if its not your clients screenshot fine, then say so, then remove the screen shot so you are not in breach of forum rules.

 

Block Quote

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Discussion of any illegal activity will result in the removal of the post and harsh punishments from the moderation team. Posts about illegal activity will also be escalated to the proper authorities.

Avoid:

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  • Links to websites containing any of the above mentioned cases

The Second bullet point relating to  Bora_BOOM.


 

 

I'm beginning to realise reading isn't your strong point.

In the links I provided it clearly states reload timers are against the fair play policy. Perhaps if WGs own website and articles aren't up to scratch in saying one reload mod is fine from another, maybe you (WG) should do something about it?

I didn't say you were "wrong twice in 2 days" I said you were wrong twice since coming here. Namely the IS3A thread where you claimed IS3A has the stock IS3 turret, which it clearly does not.



 


Edited by Nazgarth, 10 January 2019 - 03:32 PM.






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