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How to angle my tank against all sorts of ammo?

angle ammo gold special he apcr regular armour

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Bora_BOOM #21 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:45 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

 

Why I should have to search third party websites to see where you got a screenshot containing illegal mods from? LOL if its not your clients screenshot fine, then say so, then remove the screen shot so you are not in breach of forum rules.

 

The Second bullet point relating to  Bora_BOOM.

 

  • Links to websites containing any of the above mentioned cases

.....

 

 

Well, I wanted to post the link text itself (not to lead to the web page - which I would do using the Link function - but it turned to a link by itself). Link contains "2015" so that was my idea.

Despite the fact that the reload counter is forbidden, and AFAIK all the major mod packs don’t have it any more, images containing it are still available. I guess people are lazy to refresh them.

 

TBH, I wouldn’t notice the "seconds" myself, as I haven’t noticed the name of the account visible and pointed out by others. I was just looking to the angled images following the point for which images were posted. Anyhow, whenever I post images, I double check them for such things. Eekeeboo should have been a bit more careful, but mistakes are made, by others or by ourselves, so we can learn from them.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 10 January 2019 - 03:47 PM.


eekeeboo #22 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:45 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

Why I should have to search third party websites to see where you got a screenshot containing illegal mods from? LOL if its not your clients screenshot fine, then say so, then remove the screen shot so you are not in breach of forum rules.

 

The Second bullet point relating to  Bora_BOOM.

 

I'm beginning to realise reading isn't your strong point.

In the links I provided it clearly states reload timers are against the fair play policy. Perhaps if WGs own website and articles aren't up to scratch in saying one reload mod is fine from another, maybe you (WG) should do something about it?

I didn't say you were "wrong twice in 2 days" I said you were wrong twice since coming here. Namely the IS3A thread where you claimed IS3A has the stock IS3 turret, which it clearly does not.

 

 

You mean why search or look at the date of a link and where it's from before accusing someone of cheating? I wonder.... :sceptic:

 

Next you said: 

"Unfortunately for him he is in the wrong for the second time within a matter of days from coming here, see IS3A thread in announcements section." 

How many days? And how is it being wrong because you presumed something incorrectly and were wrong? 

 

 



Balc0ra #23 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:47 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

Why I should have to search third party websites to see where you got a screenshot containing illegal mods from? LOL if its not your clients screenshot fine, then say so, then remove the screen shot so you are not in breach of forum rules.

 

​A: It's an old old screen, as he has used the same screen for years. Back from before the rules you keep mentiong was even a thing, and when the reload timers was not banned... yet.  And B: Like the rules that mod has changed and don't show more then the vanilla damage panel does, inc the reload timer that did go away on it rather fast. This mods focus is the armor angle indicator and damage recived. That has never been illegal tbh. Tho the mod in question has not been updated since the vanilla damage panel with ammo type did come. So I dout it works that well on the current version. 

 

View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'm beginning to realise reading isn't your strong point.

In the links I provided it clearly states reload timers are against the fair play policy. Perhaps if WGs own website and articles aren't up to scratch in saying one reload mod is fine from another, maybe you (WG) should do something about it?

I didn't say you were "wrong twice in 2 days" I said you were wrong twice since coming here. Namely the IS3A thread where you claimed IS3A has the stock IS3 turret, which it clearly does not.

 

​If we were discussin an illegal mod with links to get it.. sure. But that site in question hosts mod pack you can also find on WG's own site. QB even put his mod packs there. And the mod in question again uses outdated images. It don't really fall under that rule I suspect. 

 

 

 

 



eekeeboo #24 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:48 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 10 January 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Well, I wanted to post the link text itself (not to lead to the web page - which I would do using the Link function - but it turned to a link by itself). Link contains "2015" so that was my idea.

Despite the fact that the reload counter is forbidden, and AFAIK all the major mod packs don’t have it any more, images containing it are still available. I guess people are lazy to refresh them.

 

TBH, I wouldn’t notice the "seconds" myself, as I haven’t noticed the name of the account visible and pointed out by others. I was just looking to the angled images following the point for which images were posted. Anyhow, whenever I post images, I double check them for such things. Eekeeboo should have been a bit more careful, but mistakes are made, by others or by ourselves, so we can learn from them.

 

This is true, but it's also not possible to find an image of the angle damage panel as far as I can tell from the current mod hub and from a brief search history with just the angling damage panel. 

DeadLecter #25 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

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Angling rarely works in this game anymore. Even the best angling still reveals a little bit of your hull and if people are firing gold that's all it takes to pen. The new meta is someone takes the first shot then you all rush in and rape. Some rear mounted turrets can be good like a Maus and maybe 705A in some situations but in general angling ain't good anymore. It still works against bad players though, those who don't know how to deal with it or that they have to fire gold. The new mata is hull down and gang bang. 1 guy takes the first shot and you all rush in.

eekeeboo #26 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 10 January 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

Angling rarely works in this game anymore. Even the best angling still reveals a little bit of your hull and if people are firing gold that's all it takes to pen. The new meta is someone takes the first shot then you all rush in and rape. Some rear mounted turrets can be good like a Maus and maybe 705A in some situations but in general angling ain't good anymore. It still works against bad players though, those who don't know how to deal with it or that they have to fire gold. The new mata is hull down and gang bang. 1 guy takes the first shot and you all rush in.

 

The important thing with angling isn't mitigating ALL the shots, but making it as difficult as possible for your enemy to hit you, make their life difficult, make them waste time between each shot aiming and you will eventually get an advantage. Angling and wiggling and moving cause more misses than sitting there and just saying "hit me one more time!" 

Bora_BOOM #27 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

This is true, but it's also not possible to find an image of the angle damage panel as far as I can tell from the current mod hub and from a brief search history with just the angling damage panel. 

 

Well, I fixed that now. :trollface:

 



Nazgarth #28 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 10 January 2019 - 03:45 PM, said:

 

Well, I wanted to post the link text itself (not to lead to the web page - which I would do using the Link function - but it turned to a link by itself). Link contains "2015" so that was my idea.

Despite the fact that the reload counter is forbidden, and AFAIK all the major mod packs don’t have it any more, images containing it are still available. I guess people are lazy to refresh them.

 

TBH, I wouldn’t notice the "seconds" myself, as I haven’t noticed the name of the account visible and pointed out by others. I was just looking to the angled images following the point for which images were posted. Anyhow, whenever I post images, I double check them for such things. Eekeeboo should have been a bit more careful, but mistakes are made, by others or by ourselves, so we can learn from them.

 

Indeed mistakes can be learnt from, but eekeeboo seems unwilling to admit his mistakes, as seen here and in the thread about IS3A I mention earlier. The screenshot on this thread remain ATM, and in the IS3A thread you can see for yourself... http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/693158-the-is-3a-reborn/page__st__520#topmost

Post 538 is my reply, can see his reply on next pages. flat out denies what he said, then ignores the thread.


 

In the spirit of things it is also my mistake to question if it was eekeeboo's client with the mods, according to the forum rules. But it seems those rules can be bent when needed.


 

Unfortunately this doesn't bode well for any "management" of the community in future, in my eyes.

14:58 Added after 1 minute

View PostBalc0ra, on 10 January 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

 

​A: It's an old old screen, as he has used the same screen for years. Back from before the rules you keep mentiong was even a thing, and when the reload timers was not banned... yet.  And B: Like the rules that mod has changed and don't show more then the vanilla damage panel does, inc the reload timer that did go away on it rather fast. This mods focus is the armor angle indicator and damage recived. That has never been illegal tbh. Tho the mod in question has not been updated since the vanilla damage panel with ammo type did come. So I dout it works that well on the current version.

 

 

​If we were discussin an illegal mod with links to get it.. sure. But that site in question hosts mod pack you can also find on WG's own site. QB even put his mod packs there. And the mod in question again uses outdated images. It don't really fall under that rule I suspect.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for describing the deep seated and normalised use of illegal mods in the game.

eekeeboo #29 Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

 

Indeed mistakes can be learnt from, but eekeeboo seems unwilling to admit his mistakes, as seen here and in the thread about IS3A I mention earlier. The screenshot on this thread remain ATM, and in the IS3A thread you can see for yourself... http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/693158-the-is-3a-reborn/page__st__520#topmost

Post 538 is my reply, can see his reply on next pages. flat out denies what he said, then ignores the thread.


 

In the spirit of things it is also my mistake to question if it was eekeeboo's client with the mods, according to the forum rules. But it seems those rules can be bent when needed.


 

Unfortunately this doesn't bode well for any "management" of the community in future, in my eyes.

14:58 Added after 1 minute

 

Thanks for describing the deep seated and normalised use of illegal mods in the game.

 

Clearly your eyes have some interesting lenses in front of them! Your last sentence alone 2015 is/was a different time of mods to now. 

 

I'm sorry I can't be there to respond to every single one of your posts on every thread personally and that I must divert my attention to more people. 



Nazgarth #30 Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:14 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 04:12 PM, said:

 

Clearly your eyes have some interesting lenses in front of them! Your last sentence alone 2015 is/was a different time of mods to now.

 

I'm sorry I can't be there to respond to every single one of your posts on every thread personally and that I must divert my attention to more people.

 

Don't expect you to reply to all, I just expect honesty when you do. :)

Edited by Nazgarth, 10 January 2019 - 04:16 PM.


Geno1isme #31 Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:48 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

Here's a few links you may find useful: 

shoot a tank in the tracks with HE (which happens with angling), Now shoot a tank in the turret or front with HE and see the difference. 

 

https://worldoftanks...e-explanation/ 

http://wiki.wargamin...anics#HE_Shells

 

I'm perfectly aware of HE mechanics, thank you. True, tracks might absorb some of the HE damage. But side armor includes many areas not covered by tracks/spaced armor. Esp. when you have large boxy turrets like the E100, the Maus.or the Godzilla tanks. With tanks that rely on pre-angled armor like most russian tanks it doesn't really matter either way as their nominal front armor is often not better than their side armor (and why the 268v4 for example is very vulnerable against large-caliber HE rounds as the 100mm upper plate doesn't absorb much).



eekeeboo #32 Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:18 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

Don't expect you to reply to all, I just expect honesty when you do. :)

 

  Refer above, and notice the irony! 

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 10 January 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

I'm perfectly aware of HE mechanics, thank you. True, tracks might absorb some of the HE damage. But side armor includes many areas not covered by tracks/spaced armor. Esp. when you have large boxy turrets like the E100, the Maus.or the Godzilla tanks. With tanks that rely on pre-angled armor like most russian tanks it doesn't really matter either way as their nominal front armor is often not better than their side armor (and why the 268v4 for example is very vulnerable against large-caliber HE rounds as the 100mm upper plate doesn't absorb much).

 

As you're aware of the HE damage you will also be aware of both tracks and angling of armour also affects the radius expansion of HE damage. The E100 for instance (as given in the above example) has spaced skirt then tracks then hull. The gap between the skirt and the side of your turret is sizeable when angled properly. 

 

Angling your tank doesn't just mean point your tank at 45 as you know, it means... angle the flat bits and don't make it easy for your enemy to pen you. Absorbing some is better than none. This is the point, it's a matter of attitude and approach, not doing any of it because it doesn't help can be the difference of 10hp and getting a chance at another shot and not. 



Geno1isme #33 Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:09 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 07:18 PM, said:

As you're aware of the HE damage you will also be aware of both tracks and angling of armour also affects the radius expansion of HE damage.

Nope. Spaced armor will cause HE to detonate before hitting primary armor (and therefore increase the distance factor and absorb some of the damage potential), if that is what you mean, but explosion radius is always the same, and not affected by angles at all (as you can read in your own wiki).

View Posteekeeboo, on 10 January 2019 - 07:18 PM, said:

Angling your tank doesn't just mean point your tank at 45 as you know, it means... angle the flat bits and don't make it easy for your enemy to pen you.

That's the thing: I'm just talking about HE here, and in 95% of all cases HE won't pen anyway. And if it doesn't pen, it is completely irrelevant if the armor is flat or angled at 85°, the splash formula doesn't care about it. Quite the contrary: As HE damage involves so much RNG (as point of impact and point of damage calculation can differ), it matters more that you hit at all, no so much where. And angling in general will increase your surface area significantly, so you're actually easier to hit. Particulary when you're sidescraping you risk exposing your side armor and therefore allow the enemy to hit you even if your entire front is in cover. And if you get perma-tracked in that position, GG.

 

Overall of course you're right and one should angle, just specifically when dealing with HE it can actually be counter-productive (depends heavily on the tank/armor model in question).



eekeeboo #34 Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:29 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 10 January 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:

Nope. Spaced armor will cause HE to detonate before hitting primary armor (and therefore increase the distance factor and absorb some of the damage potential), if that is what you mean, but explosion radius is always the same, and not affected by angles at all (as you can read in your own wiki).

That's the thing: I'm just talking about HE here, and in 95% of all cases HE won't pen anyway. And if it doesn't pen, it is completely irrelevant if the armor is flat or angled at 85°, the splash formula doesn't care about it. Quite the contrary: As HE damage involves so much RNG (as point of impact and point of damage calculation can differ), it matters more that you hit at all, no so much where. And angling in general will increase your surface area significantly, so you're actually easier to hit. Particulary when you're sidescraping you risk exposing your side armor and therefore allow the enemy to hit you even if your entire front is in cover. And if you get perma-tracked in that position, GG.

 

Overall of course you're right and one should angle, just specifically when dealing with HE it can actually be counter-productive (depends heavily on the tank/armor model in question).

 

So yes the explosion radius remains, but if you angle properly then you increase that distance between the point of impact and the way the calculation takes place for the highest damage value. I'm going to add the picture below with the formula for the calculation and the mitigation process for you. 

 

9d11b77bc6199b0bc232a894ab1ec41a.png

 

You can see this in practice that if you actually aim HE properly vs random clicking, you can actually cause more damage by aiming at the points more "centre mass" vs trying to hit the further point protruding from the enemy. If you get this right and you know your enemy you will further be able to increase the chance of critical damage on crew and module positions in the enemy tank (which happen when HE damage radius, reaches this point). This is how you get those annoying and pesky fires when angling at times and people aim higher on the engine deck vs lower down. 

 

So like you say by angling, if you do it right you bounce everything else and as long as the enemy doesn't know what they're doing too much you can mitigate so much HE damage by making sure the point they aim at is away from critical modules and crew and keeping the explosion radius from penetrating too far into the tank. 

 

In the case of E100, if you find yourself getting your engine damage by HE, get out, it's probably a person aiming the shell to use the radius damage and not someone just clicking for damage. 

 

So yes you're right, and we appear to be crossing signals a little, but I hope I explained a little further with the formula what I'm getting at. 



gpalsson #35 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:25 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

 

Why I should have to search third party websites to see where you got a screenshot containing illegal mods from? LOL if its not your clients screenshot fine, then say so, then remove the screen shot so you are not in breach of forum rules.

 

The Second bullet point relating to  Bora_BOOM.


 

 

I'm beginning to realise reading isn't your strong point.

In the links I provided it clearly states reload timers are against the fair play policy. Perhaps if WGs own website and articles aren't up to scratch in saying one reload mod is fine from another, maybe you (WG) should do something about it?

I didn't say you were "wrong twice in 2 days" I said you were wrong twice since coming here. Namely the IS3A thread where you claimed IS3A has the stock IS3 turret, which it clearly does not.



 

 

Wtf man...we finally get WG people active on the forum and you do this? Why?

Nazgarth #36 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View Postgpalsson, on 10 January 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

Wtf man...we finally get WG people active on the forum and you do this? Why?

 

Funny the amount of people who don't seem to see the problem with a community manager posting screenshot of illegal mods and lying. Wonder why? perhaps the use of cheat mods is even deeper than I thought.

gpalsson #37 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:04 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

Funny the amount of people who don't seem to see the problem with a community manager posting screenshot of illegal mods and lying. Wonder why? perhaps the use of cheat mods is even deeper than I thought.

 

well you can watch my stream if you are in doubt.

why do you keep on pressing it?

perhaps the whining little [edited]attitude runs deeper than I though.


Edited by gpalsson, 10 January 2019 - 10:05 PM.


eekeeboo #38 Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 10 January 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

Funny the amount of people who don't seem to see the problem with a community manager posting screenshot of illegal mods and lying. Wonder why? perhaps the use of cheat mods is even deeper than I thought.

 

  No.... You just haven't taken the time to look at something for your presumption. You can either believe me or not, some people just want to find excuses, if that makes you feel better, then go for it. But accusing someone of lying is no Bueno (fyi). 

gpalsson #39 Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:38 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 11 January 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

if you don't like me "pressing it" then don't reply, not difficult. But when someone post crap ill point it out and call it for what it is, I see you have resorted to personal attacks, shame.

I take offense to you insinuating I cheat which seems like a personal attack, and if you can't take don't give. Sad you had to resort to that when your arguments didn't hold -  indeed yes.


Edited by gpalsson, 11 January 2019 - 03:38 PM.


HanZi #40 Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View PostLuctor_, on 10 January 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

"eekeeboo#20

 

No it's about the fact of having to reply to over 10 threads from people complaining about the same thing (right or wrong) when 1 thread will do. Monitoring multiple threads because people are too lazy to read before they type. 

Something I want to encourage is constructive discussions, not just complaining. Informed decision making, not just agreeing because it fits your viewpoint. 

I gave people an opportunity to make this thread constructive and it was wasted by the number of posts needed to un-approve. 

Please refer to the forum rules and think carefully what you say and how you say it when making threads like these. I suggest asking how to better angle or when it's useful vs not, what ammunition types it affects, best tanks for it etc. Not just a complaint because you can't face tank your way to victory. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------
In repsond to 'Why angle' which was locked due to non-constructive criticism 
Sorry, I could not find a pinned topic (as I did not find that the first time either) on the forum regarding armour, angles and ammunition. Unfortunately there was no link in that post suggesting to the pinned topic. At least I was pointed in the right direction so I try to make a new post for it, more constructive. I'm glad to be heard seriously about this complaint/frustration and lck of skill. 
The assumption to be lazy. Complaining because there is no victory... yeah... not sure what to think of those, it doens't feel good though.
But here goes; 
 
Informed descision making:
Im afraid to take out my heavy tank(s). For instance my first tier 10 heavy: E100. Nostalgia! I just don't know how to play it anymore these days. I feel slow, stupid and underperforming (as an average player) with it. Though I really loved this tank years back; It could bounce, it could take a beating, got punished while overextending and got swarmed by 3 meds to be taken out. 
How do I angle my E100 versus the current ammo in these corridor maps? Facing a Jpz E100, shooting regular ammo, HE ammo and special ammo?
Regular: I try to turn my turret about 45 degrees, so the corner of the turret if facing the barrel of the JPZ E100. Most of the time it wil bounce, unless the police bar will get hit. Ofcourse try to move backwards when the JPZE100 is fireing. Bait and shoot afterwards
HE: Same for the turret, try to face with its corner. Formost try to move backwards, but with a hit, soak the damage. move the turret left to right (or vica versa) when reloading. 
Special ammo: Get lucky to bounce while moving the turret, hide, bait, try to peekaboo after it shoots. But as soon as the E100 shows its turret cheak, it gets penned, pretty hard. not sure how to use its armour then. 
 
And other example is facing a Type 5 Heavy.
With regular HE its a trade, but try to hide as much as possible. Peekaboo ofcourse, angle the turret, but its HE so.. alway taking damage, hope for a low-roll. 
Hope to get the side of the Type 5's  hull in front of my tank and shoot the little weakspot next to the frontplate.
Im at a total loss besides hide or run away when a Type 5 goes on special ammo +300 damage. Really not feeling benificial to my team then. 
 
It fits my viewpoint, because its my play, game, battle:
I have a hard time with the special ammo and don't know how to angle my tank against it. Any ideas?
I shoot regular ammo, sometimes 1 or 2 special ammo to scare them of,  but regular because special ammo is too expensive. I try to save for more tanks, repairs for higher tiers and when equipment is on sale to purchase that in bulk, really I need the credits on tier 10.
Ofcourse I like to win, in the case of a JPZ E100 I feel I have a chance, but not with aType 5, hidden FV4005, ...183.
 
How do you guys deal with this? 
There are a lot more tanks that deal with these situations, but the list gets unending in this first post, therefore  just the E100, this tank just feels obsolete nowadays.  

Sadly idiots full of prem ammo is kings. :(







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