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The Heroism of Suicide - Denying that Medal.


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Grommet #1 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:14 PM

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It is the epitome of self loathing.  Suicide by drowning, or by hurling oneself from a cliff, seems to be on the rise again.

It used to be endemic.  Drowning was a low cost way of denying your opponents valuable XP as there used to be little repair cost.

The epidemic of creeps sitting at the back of maps sniping with impunity only to hurl themselves into a pond once the enemy got within gun shot was curtailed by WG finally implementing full repair costs to the act.

That it seemed was that.  The levels of such heroism dropped.

Yet of late I am encountering a resurgence of suicide heroes, especially among dedicated artillery players. Yes, this game has a subset of folk who only play arty.

You may say so what?  Well this is what - I'm trying to complete a mission where I have to ram a vehicle one tier higher than me to death - in a Czech or Italian medium tank - every time I get near a Bat Chat 155 they reverse off a cliff or into a pond - as if destruction by their own hand is any less dead than being rammed by me. I find it pathetic in a way - as well as frustrating.

Their petulant self annihilation denies me my mission, denies me XP from damage, and has denied me endless bonds for hero medals.   As Artillery are usually the last in a team to die, skulking as they do in their holes and shady nooks, I bet they have denied many of you epic medals too.  Missing out on a Pool's because matey drove into a cesspit in a rage of piteous self loathing must be hard to stomach.

Double the cost of repair for suicide say I - better yet - just double the cost for drowning and cliff diving per se.

I would swallow the burden as I only occasionally drown - or fall like a chump from a cliff - but it would be worth it to stop these selfish acts of denial.



Erwin_Von_Braun #2 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:16 PM

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View PostGrommet, on 10 January 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

It is the epitome of self loathing.  Suicide by drowning, or by hurling oneself from a cliff, seems to be on the rise again.

It used to be endemic.  Drowning was a low cost way of denying your opponents valuable XP as there used to be little repair cost.

The epidemic of creeps sitting at the back of maps sniping with impunity only to hurl themselves into a pond once the enemy got within gun shot was curtailed by WG finally implementing full repair costs to the act.

That it seemed was that.  The levels of such heroism dropped.

Yet of late I am encountering a resurgence of suicide heroes, especially among dedicated artillery players. Yes, this game has a subset of folk who only play arty.

You may say so what?  Well this is what - I'm trying to complete a mission where I have to ram a vehicle one tier higher than me to death - in a Czech or Italian medium tank - every time I get near a Bat Chat 155 they reverse off a cliff or into a pond - as if destruction by their own hand is any less dead than being rammed by me. I find it pathetic in a way - as well as frustrating.

Their petulant self annihilation denies me my mission, denies me XP from damage, and has denied me endless bonds for hero medals.   As Artillery are usually the last in a team to die, skulking as they do in their holes and shady nooks, I bet they have denied many of you epic medals too.  Missing out on a Pool's because matey drove into a cesspit in a rage of piteous self loathing must be hard to stomach.

Double the cost of repair for suicide say I - better yet - just double the cost for drowning and cliff diving per se.

I would swallow the burden as I only occasionally drown - or fall like a chump from a cliff - but it would be worth it to stop these selfish acts of denial.

 

Players of all abilities suicide in all classes.

Most of them seem to come at the start of the game, not at the end.

 

Edit: I would immediately declare myself a liar if I said I've never suicide but generally, I don't see the point - go down swinging & try to earn a few extra xp/credits etc.


 


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 10 January 2019 - 09:22 PM.


Grommet #3 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:27 PM

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Suicide by incompetence cannot be corrected I fear.  Suicide as a wilful act of denial can and should be discouraged.  Your point regarding going down swinging is what is called sportsmanship.

Erwin_Von_Braun #4 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:32 PM

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View PostGrommet, on 10 January 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Suicide by incompetence cannot be corrected I fear.  Suicide as a wilful act of denial can and should be discouraged.  Your point regarding going down swinging is what is called sportsmanship.

 

If I'm being honest, it's a lethal combination of good sportsmanship & good, old fashioned greed:trollface:

I like silver, the more I earn the better - even if it's mitigating heavy losses in a one sided game.



FataL_ShadowZ #5 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:00 PM

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View PostGrommet, on 10 January 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

I would swallow the burden as I only occasionally drown - or fall like a chump from a cliff - but it would be worth it to stop these selfish acts of denial.

Odd analogy perhaps (and I don't know how many of you will have seen it) but in the latest Jumanji film (yeah, the one with Dwayne Johnson), whenever the characters die within the game they are respawned automatically. I wonder if WG's game logic would be able to detect an act of suicide (based upon a certain conditions) and thus respawn the suiciding player back to the game (possibly spawn circle or a nearby part of dry land adjacent to where they either drove of a cliff or drowned) with their original health pool before they made the move to commit suicide AND also remove the ability for them to move until the end of the game as punishment (other credits related punishments could be applied post game). There is no doubt that there will be many grey area's e.g. how would the game be able to determine whats an act of suicide and what's an accident, and also ensuring fairly killed players aren't wrongly respawned back to the game. Its just a thought to at least give those such as the OP a their rightful chance at completing elusive missions and not be denied by those who'd rather take the less honorable way out.


Edited by FataL_ShadowZ, 10 January 2019 - 10:03 PM.


Homer_J #6 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:08 PM

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Last one I saw try to drown was a T32 on Glacier.  I managed to drop a shell on him before he succumbed to the watery depths.

 

Can't say I've missed out on a medal because of one since beta days and that was a T-44 which quit to garage in the days when that was an instant destruction.



Blubba #7 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:19 PM

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Well since I read a post about some guy keeping count, I have started and so far it's 2 meds down in 14 games and another tonight in 10 games.


 

Edit: I believe the one tonight was accidental but that's 3 in 24 games or 1 in 8 and all three mediums.

Update, not that anyone is reading this old thread:

3 meds went swimming along with a TD but, artillery is guilty of 2 team kills and lights 1 tk. All in 80 bouts.


Edited by Blubba, 13 January 2019 - 11:19 PM.


Mosjmosh #8 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:32 PM

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Now imagine this: 
Playing comet over and over and over and over... in order to try and get Alliance-1 done for the Chimaera. (30% of the teams total damage & win).
Getting 30% of the teams total damage is hard enough by itself, at least when you also need to win.
The hardest part of this mission however is the MM. Being bottom tier is really not ideal for this mission and neither is tier 10 as the HP total is too high.

When i finally was about to get this mission done, after battling the ridiculous MM the last remaining enemy tank drowns himself... I had ~20 something damage to go.

 

3362 damage in a tier 6-7 game... DENIED.

Oh, and I also had a game on Glacier the other day when two top tier heavies drowned at the earliest possible moment because they didn't like the MM.

Edit: And why do the drownable bodies of water even exist on Glacier? It serves no purpose other than being a place where players can suicide...

 


Edited by Mosjmosh, 10 January 2019 - 10:35 PM.


Grommet #9 Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:49 PM

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Good point Mosjmosh and I feel your pain.

I think water has been used in the map not only for aesthetic reasons but also to act as an impenetrable barrier - WG could remove all drownable water easily while keeping the water features - just make the tanks unable to traverse it - exactly the same as they do on icy slopes.  Suicide hero drives into lake only to find he can't drown - better yet - losing precious seconds spinning his wheels in vain as he loses traction.  This would remove the curse of denial by sore losers in a single straightforward stroke.



N00BT00B #10 Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:14 AM

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View PostGrommet, on 10 January 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Suicide by incompetence cannot be corrected I fear.  Suicide as a wilful act of denial can and should be discouraged.  Your point regarding going down swinging is what is called sportsmanship.

This game has little to do with sportsmanship.

When i get dealt 3minute games with useless teams i dont owe anyone.

The water/cliff is there, i use it.

Until WG stops wasting my gaming time with no chance to win games then i spend my time efficiently. That means getting out of crap games asap in the hope the next one will be better.

 



Robbie_T #11 Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:04 AM

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View PostN00BT00B, on 11 January 2019 - 12:14 AM, said:

This game has little to do with sportsmanship.

When i get dealt 3minute games with useless teams i dont owe anyone.

The water/cliff is there, i use it.

Until WG stops wasting my gaming time with no chance to win games then i spend my time efficiently. That means getting out of crap games asap in the hope the next one will be better.

 

 

View PostN00BT00B, on 11 January 2019 - 12:14 AM, said:

This game has little to do with sportsmanship.

When i get dealt 3minute games with useless teams i dont owe anyone.

The water/cliff is there, i use it.

Until WG stops wasting my gaming time with no chance to win games then i spend my time efficiently. That means getting out of crap games asap in the hope the next one will be better.

 

 

And morrons like you cost me a lot of wins.

How many times i had a Xvm tard crying at the countdown suicide the first chance he have 

And the game ends up a loss 14-15...because 1 morron suicided in the water at the beginning of the battle with 0 input.(most times prem tier 8)

 



m1x_angelico #12 Posted 11 January 2019 - 02:03 AM

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I would agree with the idea of 2x or even 3x repair cost. It is incentive based economics: players who do it on purpose would be incentivised not to do it again, while those who accidentally die (e.g. drown), would be incentivised to learn to drive better :)

Edited by m1x_angelico, 11 January 2019 - 02:03 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #13 Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:45 AM

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Simply make drowning permanently disable your engine due to flooding rather than kill all your crew and leave the tank completely immobile to be farmed at the enemy teams leisure.

Easy fix.

Gixxer66 #14 Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:56 AM

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View PostN00BT00B, on 10 January 2019 - 11:14 PM, said:

This game has little to do with sportsmanship.

When i get dealt 3minute games with useless teams i dont owe anyone.

The water/cliff is there, i use it.

Until WG stops wasting my gaming time with no chance to win games then i spend my time efficiently. That means getting out of crap games asap in the hope the next one will be better.

 

 

I guess it becomes a habit when your most played tank is an arty.

 

Purposefully destroying your vehicle at any point in the game is a pretty low thing to do.



gunslingerXXX #15 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:02 AM

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Missions suck. Reward tanks are not worth it.

Move on. Play the game for fun.



Homer_J #16 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:04 AM

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View PostMosjmosh, on 10 January 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

Now imagine this: 
Playing comet over and over and over and over... in order to try and get Alliance-1 done for the Chimaera. (30% of the teams total damage & win).


 

Surely if you are to get 30% of the teams damage it can only help you if one of the enemy drown as that's less damage for the rest of your team to get hence your 30% portion is less.

 

And why would getting 30% be easier in a low tier pew pew gun than a high tier autoloader?


Edited by Homer_J, 11 January 2019 - 09:05 AM.


TankkiPoju #17 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:09 AM

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View PostN00BT00B, on 11 January 2019 - 12:14 AM, said:

This game has little to do with sportsmanship.

When i get dealt 3minute games with useless teams i dont owe anyone.

The water/cliff is there, i use it.

Until WG stops wasting my gaming time with no chance to win games then i spend my time efficiently. That means getting out of crap games asap in the hope the next one will be better.

 

 

Found the arty player.

thestaggy #18 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:12 AM

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Last night we were losing 3-13. I was in my AMX 13 90, down to 300-odd HP. The arty died, 3-14. I emptied my clip in to a T-43 (killed him) and then drove off a cliff in to the water. I was trapped in the corner of the map (Serene Coast south spawn) and I couldn't run away to reload. I done what I had to to try and get as much out of that game as possible and with a 20 sec reload and tanks moving in on me from all sides there was nothing I could do further, so I put that game out of my misery.

 

In my defence it was my 4th straight defeat and neither of those defeats were remotely close. All landslides; 15-5, 15-7, 15-4 and then 15-4 again. I was quite sick of the game at that point and couldn't give a **** about anyone losing out on a mission or medal.


Edited by thestaggy, 11 January 2019 - 09:19 AM.


Homer_J #19 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:17 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 11 January 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

 

Found the arty player.

 

I assure you he does not represent arty players in general.

 

I would much rather hang in there in the hope of at least getting some ramming damage.

 

He does however represent selfish oiks everywhere.



_Hakkapeliitta_ #20 Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:19 AM

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we nees jesus tanks in game...driving top of water :D




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