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wheeled tanks. what the will bring to gameplay.


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niska #1 Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:51 PM

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I saw few games of this news tanks, i know that we cant rely in the test server but for what i have seen i think that this new micro machines will break the gameplay.

Imagine you playing with your slowest tanks in open maps with 1 or 2 of those yoloing at the start of the match.

I know that they can be easly killed but in the most of the cases the players that enconter them will not have time to take positions and they will to have to hide very fast.

And normal lights will be penalized  with this tanks.

Its my opinion, now i would like to ear what do you guys thinks about it?



TungstenHitman #2 Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:56 PM

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I think it will be a lot of frustration for the users. Here's the thing about these tanks. They have really bad view range, no armor obviously, very weak and the firepower is poor so they offer really no carry potential outside of the odd miracle match. All they have is that speed with some camo and so in this game the problem with that is as follows.

 

1. Nearly every single map will not work for this tank. They will either be tiny little maps, urban maps or corridor maps, all of which means that this tanks only trick, it's speed, is utterly useless and can't ever really be used for more than a tiny little burst without having to almost immediately break again or else just crash into a building or teammate or something. 

 

2. When you finally do get an open map you still have to be very careful of the rises and river crossing and illogically placed rocks and rubble piles.

 

3. On maps that suit this tank you still heavily rely on teammates to make use of the targets you're going to be risking your arse to spot repeatedly and as we know from light tanks, this is often just a frustrating experience as your teammates just ignore all the targets your spotting and continue to eat their crayons blissfully unaware what's happening away from directly in front of their tank. Only it's going to be more frustrating as these tanks don't really have the view range to be passive most the time and so the spotting comes with higher risks.

 

4. I could be wrong but it appears that in most cases, while racing around in the open using that speed, to spot targets will nearly always result in getting spotted so I believe that once the playerbase get used to this new tanks that initial speed factor will be learned and countered so as time passes, most all players will learn to lead their guns and time shooting these tanks better just the way we all wait for light tank to make it's turn and be momentarily driving straight during that change in direction. 

 

5. Firepower. Or lack there of. So for all the above reasons, when you're on the majority of maps that will not suit the tanks only trick, you're reduced to just playing this thing like a normal support tank behind you're teams heavy muscle and tbh, this is probably the weakest firepower tank in every battle so.. who wants to play that? 

 

6. Nearly forgot. I'm not entirely sure the smoothness of the game can support the speed of these tanks. What I mean is, I think you could be zipping along top speed and there might be little screen jumps and freezes or glitches as you approach new info the server has to give you and your pc has to load like as you approach town sections and basically any sections with players and map into alike that has to be processed while traveling at 100kph, I think there's potential for a lot of "wt* just happened there??" moments 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 18 January 2019 - 12:21 AM.


BravelyRanAway #3 Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:58 PM

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Perhaps players will think twice about choosing arty, now that they may be spotted in the first 30 seconds.....is that a bad thing?:trollface:

ihateclowns #4 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:29 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 January 2019 - 10:56 PM, said:

I think it will be a lot of frustration for the users. Here's the thing about these tanks. They have really bad view range, no armor obviously, very weak and the firepower is poor so they offer really no carry potential outside of the odd miracle match. All they have is that speed with some camo and so in this game the problem with that is as follows.

 

1. Nearly every single map will not work for this tank. They will either be tiny little maps, urban maps or corridor maps, all of which means that this tanks only trick, it's speed, is utterly useless and can't ever really be used for more than a tiny little burst without having to almost immediately break again or else just crash into a building or teammate or something. 

 

2. When you finally do get an open map you still have to be very careful of the rises and river crossing and illogically placed rocks and rubble piles.

 

3. On maps that suit this tank you still heavily rely on teammates to make use of the targets you're going to be risking your arse to spot repeatedly and as we know from light tanks, this is often just a frustrating experience as your teammates just ignore all the targets your spotting and continue to eat their crayons blissfully unaware what's happening away from directly in front of their tank. Only it's going to be more frustrating as these tanks don't really have the view range to be passive most the time and so the spotting comes with higher risks.

 

4. I could be wrong but it appears that in most cases, while racing around in the open using that speed, to spot targets will nearly always result in getting spotted so I believe that once the playerbase get used to this new tanks that initial speed factor will be learned and countered so as time passes, most all players will learn to lead their guns and time shooting these tanks better just the way we all wait for light tank to make it's turn and be momentarily driving straight during that change in direction. 

 

5. Firepower. Or lack there of. So for all the above reasons, when you're on the majority of maps that will not suit the tanks only trick, you're reduced to just playing this thing like a normal support tank behind you're teams heavy muscle and tbh, this is probably the weakest firepower tank in every battle so.. who wants to play that? 

 

6. Nearly forgot. I'm not entirely sure the smoothness of the game can support the speed of these tanks. What I mean is, I think you could be zipping along top speed and there might be little screen jumps and freezes or glitches as you approach new info the server has to give you and your pc has to load like as you approach town sections and basically any sections with players and map into alike that has to be processed while traveling at 100kph, I think there's potential for a lot of "wt* just happened there??" moments 

 

Please stop saying they have really bad view range when they can go above the max view range and cap out at 470 metres.

Edited by ihateclowns, 18 January 2019 - 12:29 AM.


TungstenHitman #5 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:45 AM

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View Postihateclowns, on 17 January 2019 - 11:29 PM, said:

 

Please stop saying they have really bad view range when they can go above the max view range and cap out at 470 metres.

 

At what tier? Tier10? and all with BIA, Situ, Recon, food, directives and Improved vents and optics.... so ya, that's a bs call all things considered and for most the playerbase that won't or won't have those crew, won't use food and won't have those other items in their possession. For those that do have all those things would they really want to waste them on a really weak situational tank that doesn't work on most maps? There's already light tanks almost as fast that have massively better view range as standard and better firepower which can be played for a hell of a lot cheaper and of course at top tiers where everything has huge view ranges and lazer accuracy and big armor or a big gun etc, there's the very valid question light tanks also get asked, why bother? You're just not going to be effective most the time. I love light tanks but for the reason I gave above the game and it's maps doesn't play out well for weak gunned, papery armored things, you just don't have anything to fight with or defend with. 

Edited by TungstenHitman, 18 January 2019 - 12:48 AM.


Shacou #6 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:19 AM

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They will have their own niche and gameplay. I like playing risky and making bold moves, light tanks are too slow for me. Wheeled lights will do i think.

laulaur #7 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:45 AM

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All that these vehicles will bring is confusion and frustration - for both those playing them and those playing against them.

 

It is funny that no one asked for this kind of 'super mario kart' crap kind of content, but WG considers that the thing most needed by the game right now is buffing 279 and introducing race karts that go with 100km/h....



Balc0ra #8 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:46 AM

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I doubt it. Not the way most think anyway. Tier 6 might be messed up for a few days. But considering how tier 8 games were when the tier 8 premium rental was out. People will either yolo hard, or use the speed for what it's worth. And when I had the tier 8 rental. It did not take long for people to figure out how to counter it. But how many will go for the line, or give it up after a week is a different matter.

 

View Postlaulaur, on 18 January 2019 - 01:45 AM, said:

.It is funny that no one asked for this kind of 'super mario kart' crap kind of content, but WG considers that the thing most needed by the game right now

 

Funny then how every single Q&A since the WWI event have had multiple questions about this. Many did want it. But considering the skill ceiling on them atm, and how crew dependent they are. I doubt many of them will give you to much issues on most tiers vs others. And I'm willing to bet that after a few months. Most will have left it for normal lights. They are fun, but not effective tools for spotting on most tiers.


Edited by Balc0ra, 18 January 2019 - 01:49 AM.


Robbie_T #9 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:59 AM

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I dont like them in the game.

I would have liked them on a special game mode or even in FL but not random battles.

Or just made them  like normal lts.

 

Find it verry dumb thing of WG putting these things in it just like they dropped them in and GL.

Not even talking about my personal taste...they look childish. (looks like Crossout will promote same game play)

 

The maps are not made for it,most tds without a turret will be screwed or and spotted.

Like for example Paris north part GL trying to defend that now with tds.

OR it will be a fast Texas shoot out from both sides.

 

Also the little strategy that was left in the game will be gone now also by the earlyy spotting..no suprises of who or what will be on that side.

And 470 view range aint that bad with a 100 kmh.

 

This will be short battles....soon..and they already short.

I will look what 1.4 exactly will bring but if it is what i think it is ..there will be some break time.

 

 

 


Edited by Robbie_T, 18 January 2019 - 02:02 AM.


laulaur #10 Posted 18 January 2019 - 02:01 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 18 January 2019 - 12:46 AM, said:

Funny then how every single Q&A since the WWI event have had multiple questions about this. Many did want it. But considering the skill ceiling on them atm, and how crew dependent they are. I doubt many of them will give you to much issues on most tiers vs others. And I'm willing to bet that after a few months. Most will have left it for normal lights. They are fun, but not effective tools for spotting on most tiers.

 

Sure people asked about anything that was already introduced once in the game (even for a short period of time).

If tomorrow we will have a special that let us fly helicopters for a week guess what will happen after that for years - people will ask if and when we get helicopters in the game....

Also by wheeled vehicles i (and probably a lot like me) was thinking at wheeled troop carriers and support vehicles, not racing fantasy cars that accelerate like a motorcycle.



master4us #11 Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:45 AM

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the biggest impact will be on arty in my opinion, especially in 3 arty games.

 

also personal missions will need to be adapted to this new tank type.

 

my main focus in this kind of tank will be to spot and even destroy enemy arty

 



signal11th #12 Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:51 AM

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It's content for contents sake, imagine being a heavy on an open map like campinovka with 3 clickers on the other side, you think things are bad now, wait till a wheeled warrior lights you up before you've even managed to leave the cap. The meta at the moment seems to be ultra passive as is what's it going to be like with these things in the game.

Edited by signal11th, 18 January 2019 - 09:51 AM.


Homer_J #13 Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:54 AM

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View Postniska, on 17 January 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

I saw few games of this news tanks, i know that we cant rely in the test server but for what i have seen i think that this new micro machines will break the gameplay.

Imagine you playing with your slowest tanks in open maps with 1 or 2 of those yoloing at the start of the match.

I know that they can be easly killed but in the most of the cases the players that enconter them will not have time to take positions and they will to have to hide very fast.

And normal lights will be penalized  with this tanks.

Its my opinion, now i would like to ear what do you guys thinks about it?

 

Good players will adapt, bad players will have a new ubertank to add to go for and be disappointed with.

 

You can't yolo rush the start with them, you die before your own team can make use of your spotting.  You need to put a lot of thought into when and where you dive in.  And then you have to put a lot of effort into driving because cartoon physics give cartoon results when you hit a tiny rock.

 

A few very good players will get very good results with them.  The rest of us will just have a lot of fun.

08:56 Added after 1 minute

View Postsignal11th, on 18 January 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

It's content for contents sake, imagine being a heavy on an open map like campinovka with 3 clickers on the other side, you think things are bad now, wait till a wheeled warrior lights you up before you've even managed to leave the cap.

 

And the arty is still 20 seconds away from loading it's first shell, and the enemy heavies are nowhere near being able to shoot at you.

arthurwellsley #14 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:19 AM

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The rental tier VIII premium was pretty well balanced.

Here's a half way decent game;

http://wotreplays.eu...rd_ebr_75_fl_10



Simeon85 #15 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:24 AM

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View Postihateclowns, on 18 January 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

 

Please stop saying they have really bad view range when they can go above the max view range and cap out at 470 metres.

 

Considering that is with improved vents, improved optics and directives that like 99.99% of playerbase won't have, that is bad view range.

 

The tier 10 has the same base view range as an IS-3, and the IS-3 has bad view range for tier 8, let alone tier 10.

 

Tanks like the Patton have 420 base, loads of tanks have 410 base on tier 10 and barely any tank bar the Strv 103B has below 400, so yes its bad view range.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Personally I think most people are making ill-judged early reactions with little data or experience. I think in the end it'll all be a big fuss about nothing. I don't believe speed for survival ultimately will work. 

 

1. The test server is an awful barometer of anything, it has people who don't play tier 10 playing tier 10, it has multiple of these vehicles, it has crazy yolo gameplay anyway, everyone has food, gold, improved equipment etc. and 10 skill crews on anything, nothing like live, teamkillers, lag etc. All of which adds up to an environment that does not reflect the live server at all.

 

2. On the flip side then on live, these vehicles will be facing more experienced players who know their vehicles, who are more cautious and overall the gameplay is far more campy at tier 10 on live. There will be way less lag about making the vehicle easier to hit and people of course won't have maxed out crews, improved equipment etc. on these tanks.

 

3. Of course over time as well people will get more used to them and realise they just need to add more lead, it is really not that hard to hit them IMO. I'd actually say the ELC Even 90 is harder to hit target as its way smaller despite being slower, whereas the wheeled vehicles have a very large side profile.

 

4. Also we have to remember it will take a while for any decent amount of these tanks to hit the live server, when the new tier 10 lights came out the usual crowd free XPd them and you saw quite a few in game, then after time those people got bored with them and/or realised they were not very good so played them less, it then takes a while for the rest of the playerbase to grind them and you do not see that many tier 10 lights.

 

5. The yolo tactics, especially when there is only 1-2 in the game I just don't think will work, again especially after players become aware of it.

 

6. Other players just need to adjust their tactics and approaches to spots, especially in slow tanks or arty etc. No different with current lights etc. rushing to forward spots on maps like Lakeville and Fishermans bay, take a wider route. 

 

7. You also need to remember that whilst they are super fast, their view range is rubbish so a light that goes 70kph with 500m view range, is going to extend the vision and spotting from further back than a wheeled vehicle that goes 100kph with 430m view range, so there won't be a huge difference as yes the wheeled vehicle gets to those spots earlier but the lights spot from earlier and the wheeled vehicles will have to get closer than lights do to spot the same stuff.

 

8. Maps, most maps these tanks have little value, going 100kph means sweet FA on maps like Ensk, Mountain Pass, Himmelsdorf, Abbey etc. and these maps are like 60-70% of the game, those tanks then become awkward to use, with very weak firepower, and low survivability. They won;t have the room to move, they will be annoying to peek shots from corners, they won't be able to pen stuff very well and they won't do damage very quickly, they will be limited to like end game yolo situations and largely useless for a lot of the game. 

 

 

I think once they are in the game and we have had them a few months, people will start to realise what they are, limited meme tanks that will be very situational and only really effective in very good hands and even then will need probably bad players on the other team and a team that creates them opportunities. 


Edited by Simeon85, 18 January 2019 - 10:27 AM.


LordMuffin #16 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:30 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 18 January 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

 

Considering that is with improved vents, improved optics and directives that like 99.99% of playerbase won't have, that is bad view range.

 

The tier 10 has the same base view range as an IS-3, and the IS-3 has bad view range for tier 8, let alone tier 10.

 

Tanks like the Patton have 420 base, loads of tanks have 410 base on tier 10 and barely any tank bar the Strv 103B has below 400, so yes its bad view range.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Personally I think most people are making ill-judged early reactions with little data or experience. I think in the end it'll all be a big fuss about nothing. I don't believe speed for survival ultimately will work. 

 

1. The test server is an awful barometer of anything, it has people who don't play tier 10 playing tier 10, it has multiple of these vehicles, it has crazy yolo gameplay anyway, everyone has food, gold, improved equipment etc. and 10 skill crews on anything, nothing like live, teamkillers, lag etc. All of which adds up to an environment that does not reflect the live server at all.

 

2. On the flip side then on live, these vehicles will be facing more experienced players who know their vehicles, who are more cautious and overall the gameplay is far more campy at tier 10 on live. There will be way less lag about making the vehicle easier to hit and people of course won't have maxed out crews, improved equipment etc. on these tanks.

 

3. Of course over time as well people will get more used to them and realise they just need to add more lead, it is really not that hard to hit them IMO. I'd actually say the ELC Even 90 is harder to hit target as its way smaller despite being slower, whereas the wheeled vehicles have a very large side profile.

 

4. Also we have to remember it will take a while for any decent amount of these tanks to hit the live server, when the new tier 10 lights came out the usual crowd free XPd them and you saw quite a few in game, then after time those people got bored with them and/or realised they were not very good so played them less, it then takes a while for the rest of the playerbase to grind them and you do not see that many tier 10 lights.

 

5. The yolo tactics, especially when there is only 1-2 in the game I just don't think will work, again especially after players become aware of it.

 

6. Other players just need to adjust their tactics and approaches to spots, especially in slow tanks or arty etc. No different with current lights etc. rushing to forward spots on maps like Lakeville and Fishermans bay, take a wider route. 

 

7. You also need to remember that whilst they are super fast, their view range is rubbish so a light that goes 70kph with 500m view range, is going to extend the vision and spotting from further back than a wheeled vehicle that goes 100kph with 430m view range, so there won't be a huge difference as yes the wheeled vehicle gets to those spots earlier but the lights spot from earlier and the wheeled vehicles will have to get closer than lights do to spot the same stuff.

 

8. Maps, most maps these tanks have little value, going 100kph means sweet FA on maps like Ensk, Mountain Pass, Himmelsdorf, Abbey etc. and these maps are like 60-70% of the game, those tanks then become awkward to use, with very weak firepower, and low survivability. They won;t have the room to move, they will be annoying to peek shots from corners, they won't be able to pen stuff very well and they won't do damage very quickly, they will be limited to like end game yolo situations and largely useless for a lot of the game. 

 

 

I think once they are in the game and we have had them a few months, people will start to realise what they are, limited meme tanks that will be very situational and only really effective in very good hands and even then will need probably bad players on the other team and a team that creates them opportunities. 

 

Agreed.

It is a meme-tank, which makes me question why it should be implemented at all.

I don't think this tank is needed.

I don't think it will have a positive influence on gameplay.

 

I don't see any reason to why WG should add them at all.

 

If WG wants to add wheeled vehicles,  they should first make a concept, is that concept different/unique. Theorise about how that concept will influence gameplay.

Will it bring gameplay to what WG wants or not.

And first after this, actually test it out.

 

Now I get a feeling WG didn't do any of that at all, it just feels like a half-way thought through idea that gets implemented for no real reasons (maybe except making more profit).



Simeon85 #17 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:34 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 18 January 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

 

Agreed.

It is a meme-tank, which makes me question why it should be implemented at all.

 

 

Because content is needed, its what keeps the game going and new vehicle lines bring in new players, bring others back and overall bump up the player numbers.

 

Especially vehicles with more interesting traits/abilities, as seen with the Swedish tanks. 

 

They are running out of options, so opening up this avenue gives them a lot more content options because several nations could have wheeled vehicles lines. 



Mr_Burrows #18 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:44 AM

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EVEN is a meme tank that still works, despite tier 1 dpm. I think the wheelies will be pretty much the same, albeit different. But they will take dedicated players. 

 



japtank #19 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

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I'm going to play them.

I had over 55% WR in the Chaffee back in the days (350 games played), I now have 40% winrate (only 90 games played, but still...) with the Sheridan.

I loved playing my Chaffee (which was not as good as the t-50-2 mind you) because scouting and taking risks is what I like.

I'm under the impression lights are a travesti nowadays and wheeled vehicles could bring the joy back.

 

And since pretty much every game is a 3 arties monstruosity nowadays, that could make me want to play the game again.



Sirebellus #20 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:06 PM

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During the rental period I only ever saw one of the wheeled tanks, on Studzianski, in a predictable place - near the hill at the north... dropped an arty shell near it, stunned and 'wheeled' (well I can't call it tracked) and my team mates mopped up the stricken tank... not a good game for the wheeled tank

 






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