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I'm confused about people complaining on WoT maps


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Poll: Should maps be: (64 members have cast votes)

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Should maps be:

  1. Full of corridors (10 votes [15.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.62%

  2. With wide open space (54 votes [84.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 84.38%

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Homer_J #21 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:03 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 18 January 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

 

Prokhorovka

 

Malinovka

 

Murovanka

 

 

These three are NOT corridor maps.

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.



LordMuffin #22 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:12 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 January 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.

A corridor is a space with no/little interaction with the rest of the map.

Like abbey/Paris/Himmelsdorf/Mountain Pass/Pilsen/Minsk/Studzianski/Fishermans Bay/ etc.

 

Now, on Prokhorovka,  you get interaction from mid to hill, mid to 1 line, hill to mid and 1-line to mid.

It is also possible to push over mid quite early (at the railroad) you have pinned down the enemies on hill, and also closer to the 1 line, or into the bowl, i found you have some spotting on the 1 line.

 

On Malinovka you can push the river side quite early if you want to. You can go hill, if you have hill, you can push the area below hill etc. Also, you have crossfire opportunities all over the map. The main issue with Malinovka is the super strong camping positions.

 

On Murovanka you can go mid area if you have a light/medium tank and knows what you do. Depending on where in the mud you go, you can support or spot either side.

An issue with Murovanka is the corners at the heavy side which are a bit to strong.

 

There is interaction between the sides of the map which is possible to use on all three of them. 


Edited by LordMuffin, 18 January 2019 - 10:15 AM.


arthurwellsley #23 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:15 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.

 

Malinovka field push = rarely. T95 or T110E3 occassionally. Object 268 v4 pre nerf. Requires no SPG on either team.

 

Prokhorovka = the middle ridge is an important feature of game play. Shooting from the middle diagonally across to either flank is often viable

 

Murovanka = fighting is the village is viable depending on the line ups. Mediums in the area near the chapel can have a serious effect on the outcome.

 

To me a corridor imples a very narrow channel where only one maybe two tanks can pass, that is not the case for Murovanka's forest.



Gardar7 #24 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:16 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 January 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.

 

Malinovka: Last time I got that map our team managed to push through the field after most of the players went out from bases. It was funny but effective.

Prokhorovka: there is always something happening in the middle. From there you can shoot the ones on hill and also the ones on the road. That small village can cause surprises as well.

Murovanka village is mostly used by lights, true. 



8126Jakobsson #25 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:23 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 18 January 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

removed Sand River assault.

 

Sure it was unbalanced but I still didn't mind being an attacker. I liked it and I miss it. And with the change in opening up a path through 1-line I think they should put it back and see how it goes.

I like Assault but now it's just Karelia to look forward to playing. Empire's Border is such trash that I have thought about unchecking the game mode every time I've played it.  



LordMuffin #26 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 18 January 2019 - 10:23 AM, said:

 

Sure it was unbalanced but I still didn't mind being an attacker. I liked it and I miss it. And with the change in opening up a path through 1-line I think they should put it back and see how it goes.

I like Assault but now it's just Karelia to look forward to playing. Empire's Border is such trash that I have thought about unchecking the game mode every time I've played it.  

For assault, the 1-line hill change is interesting. 

For standard Sand River, that change sucks imo.



Flicka #27 Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:44 AM

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Well, I think the best solution would be to have even bigger maps, somewhere in between normal 1kx1k maps and the Grand Battle ones, and you can have everything there, open space, corridors, arty protection, spotting and the game clock could actually go below 10 minutes again.

Dava_117 #28 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:44 AM

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IMO there is no opposition between corridors and open map.

You can have a really nice city map that is not a corridor too. Stlingrad and Mink both had the chance to be good city map having tons of small street that could have been used for flanking. But for some reason WG designer tought that too much flanking wasn't good for gameplay...



Mr_Burrows #29 Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 January 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.

 

You cannot shoot across corridor maps. 

 

 

As a side note: WG needs to make their minds up regarding buildings. Either they can be destroyed, or they cannot. As it is right now, it just seems RNG-dependent... 


Edited by Mr_Burrows, 18 January 2019 - 11:48 AM.


Homer_J #30 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:06 PM

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View PostMr_Burrows, on 18 January 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 

You cannot shoot across corridor maps. 

 

I can :arta:

LincolnTank #31 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:12 PM

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Maps that contain both would be the ideal. I'd love to see a mechanic in the maps that means that building and cover layout is generated at random for each and every map to ensure that no two are ever the same. This would stop the trend of people hiding in the same spots, making it far far more challenging for all to play. If that means lengthening the duration of each match then so be it

DeadLecter #32 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:20 PM

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Map design combined with MM is horrible. For example on Mountain pass and Gacier, it is suicide for heavies to go for their location because they lose a lot of HP at the hands of sniping MTs and TDs. Bad map design.

And on better maps like Sand RIver, Serene Coast, Westfield, when there are 3 arties. the first guy to get spotted gets nuked. Maps with great potential that are ruined because of arty. Then we have maps like Paris and Mines that are flat out horrible. They don't offer anything. On Paris one side is a camp fest and the other is HTs gang bang. On mines, either take the hill or lose, lose the hill, everyone gets spotted and gets nuked by arty. There are very few maps that are semi decent. In general, maps are either horrible, or are bad because of bad MM. In my idea Maps should be big and open with decent locations for all classes and only 1 arty per team. Westfield, Serene Coast, and other open maps are really great when there is only 1 or even better no arty. But add 3 arty to the mix which is always and the maps is F-ed up.



seXikanac #33 Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:48 PM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 18 January 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Map design combined with MM is horrible. For example on Mountain pass and Gacier, it is suicide for heavies to go for their location because they lose a lot of HP at the hands of sniping MTs and TDs. Bad map design.

And on better maps like Sand RIver, Serene Coast, Westfield, when there are 3 arties. the first guy to get spotted gets nuked. Maps with great potential that are ruined because of arty. Then we have maps like Paris and Mines that are flat out horrible. They don't offer anything. On Paris one side is a camp fest and the other is HTs gang bang. On mines, either take the hill or lose, lose the hill, everyone gets spotted and gets nuked by arty. There are very few maps that are semi decent. In general, maps are either horrible, or are bad because of bad MM. In my idea Maps should be big and open with decent locations for all classes and only 1 arty per team. Westfield, Serene Coast, and other open maps are really great when there is only 1 or even better no arty. But add 3 arty to the mix which is always and the maps is F-ed up.

 

OK, so Paris, map that have both corridors and open part, where all tank class can be useful, thats dumb map?

DeadLecter #34 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:20 PM

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View PostseXikanac, on 18 January 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

 

OK, so Paris, map that have both corridors and open part, where all tank class can be useful, thats dumb map?

 

Paris is one of the worst maps in the game. The heavy part is Ok-ish but the other side is a camp fest for TDs and MTs. If you even think about going to the open the parts, you will die in less than 10 seconds because TDs have no where else to go so they will camp until you get into their crosshairs. Everyone just camps on the hills waiting for the otherside to shoot and get spotted. Horrible map

Tijsbeek993 #35 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:38 PM

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Full city maps are allowed. but there must be a little bit open place. like himmelsdorp.
fully open mpas like campynovka are aswell allowed. But the spawn must be closer at the heavy line. the heavys are too long driving.
Mines is a great map. open, but good for lights mediums and heavys.
 

But everyone has his own opinion. :)



laulaur #36 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:40 PM

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View PostseXikanac, on 18 January 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

 

OK, so Paris, map that have both corridors and open part, where all tank class can be useful, thats dumb map?

 

Paris is a really crap map. The outcome of the game is decided in 1 square in the city between armored tanks that can fight there.

The rest of the paper td and hipster med/lights can do almost nothing to influence the outcome. Any kind of aggressive play on the 'green' part gets you killed or blocked in a useless position. The only thing left for them to do is just wait.

 

Open maps are the best, but sadly there are a lot less of those in the game.

And the ones that WG is touching become trash - see Steppes with the added camping positions on the right side of the map. Now any push on that line is almost impossible.

 

On open maps any tank can do something. Sure that arty reduce a lot of the fun, but if WG would finally [edited] wake up and reduce the number of arty to 1 per team everything will be a lot better.


Edited by laulaur, 18 January 2019 - 01:43 PM.


Anthony_1972 #37 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:43 PM

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Although indeed the maps aren't great, they are getting so much worse because of artillery.  

 

Lots of maps actually would allow for flanking... if only there wasn't artillery.   Because of arty, all heavies MUST go to that one arty-safe brawling corner, or be obliterated.  And they have to hug that corner, because any wider approach isn't arty safe.   All maps they automatically get transformed into corridor or brawling corner.   

 

 

MTs or TDs CANNOT help on the heavy side, because there are no flanking opportunities.  Again, mostly because of arty... 

 

As a result, the newer maps get a dedicated MT and dedicated TD zone...   Which is simply absurd.  All tanks types should be able to fight all parts of the maps... where of course, depending on the terrain, you will take different tactical positions.   On the newer maps, it is the map design that doesn't allow this as well.   But on the older maps, it is primarily artillery that prevents a more dynamic positioning of tanks.   Often, they do have good alternative positions, but they aren't useable, because they aren't arty safe.  Just a rolling hill isn't sufficient... for a hull down tank flanking maneuver… you absolutely need arty safe hardcover.  And that limits the possibilities enormously.  

 

Without arty, most maps would allow for much more dynamic gameplay. 

 



laulaur #38 Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:51 PM

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View PostAnthony_1972, on 18 January 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

Although indeed the maps aren't great, they are getting so much worse because of artillery.  

 

Lots of maps actually would allow for flanking... if only there wasn't artillery.   Because of arty, all heavies MUST go to that one arty-safe brawling corner, or be obliterated.  And they have to hug that corner, because any wider approach isn't arty safe.   All maps they automatically get transformed into corridor or brawling corner.   

 

 

MTs or TDs CANNOT help on the heavy side, because there are no flanking opportunities.  Again, mostly because of arty... 

 

As a result, the newer maps get a dedicated MT and dedicated TD zone...   Which is simply absurd.  All tanks types should be able to fight all parts of the maps... where of course, depending on the terrain, you will take different tactical positions.   On the newer maps, it is the map design that doesn't allow this as well.   But on the older maps, it is primarily artillery that prevents a more dynamic positioning of tanks.   Often, they do have good alternative positions, but they aren't useable, because they aren't arty safe.  Just a rolling hill isn't sufficient... for a hull down tank flanking maneuver… you absolutely need arty safe hardcover.  And that limits the possibilities enormously.  

 

Without arty, most maps would allow for much more dynamic gameplay. 

 

 

Yep, look at the latest map that we will get in the next update - Ghost Town.

 



eldrak #39 Posted 18 January 2019 - 03:16 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 18 January 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

There are occasions when WG make a good map change. Like when they removed Charkov, or now when they are going to remove assault in Empires Boarder, or 2 hen they removed Sand River assault.

I would rather have Charkov than new Fishermans, Fjord, Studiyanki, Pilsen, Paris and perhaps even Glacier

 

 



Dorander #40 Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:33 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 18 January 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

A little note: The most liked maps, at least by the better players of the game, are all maps which where created at the very beginning of WoT.

 

I just have a feeling that the newer a map gets,  or the more recent WG have fiddled with it, the worse I believe it gets, in general.

There are occasions when WG make a good map change. Like when they removed Charkov, or now when they are going to remove assault in Empires Boarder, or 2 hen they removed Sand River assault.

And sometimes when a map change is neither positive nor negative, like the change to Siegfried Lines.

 

On the other hand, those maps were all changed, quite significantly. Would you say their new incarnations are better or worse than the old ones?

 

Old maps have some serious misses too, remember Dragon Ridge? The original Abbey, or even the current Abbey? There are additionally some removed maps which I can't even remember the names of because I don't miss them for a second. Then there's that horrible 600m-with-a-dyke-in-the-middle low-tier map that I believe has been around forever... there's probably a reason they went for a fairly formulaic setup where they try to cater to every class in predictable ways, my best guess is that they too realize the results of attempted unique maps are catastrophic :P.

 

 

View PostHomer_J, on 18 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

Those are all corridor maps.  Just look where everyone goes on those maps, into defined corridors.  When did you last see a Malinovka field push? 

When did you last see anything happen on Prok which wasn't either hill or road? You get a bit of poking at the railroad crossing which never develops into anything.

When did you last see anyone making any headway through the Murovanka village?  You don't it's heavy lane or magic forest.

 

It depends on whether you see corridors as open corridors or as walled off tunnels, e.g. the difference between the west side of Fisherman's bay and the west side of Lakeville. You do have a point though in that nobody tends to go middle without physical protection because you're in a line of crossfire, people have used map edges for protection since the start of the game. Murovanka village these days is pretty viable near the end of the fight or if their heavies camp in the back, else you run into the TD line. Typically if you push past the houses in a heavy on the west flank, you're dead.




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