Jump to content


The spotting system is a joke!


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

ApocalypseSquad #21 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:01 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27188 battles
  • 2,213
  • Member since:
    07-31-2011

Jesus, 20k battles and you don't know how the spotting system works? - Nice job Baldrickk of explaining it to him, though I am amazed you had the patience.

 

As for the next replay the OP promises, let me guess proxy spot...



Baldrickk #22 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:10 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 31993 battles
  • 15,984
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    03-03-2013

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

1. Says you. The game and this screenshot say otherwise about the view range:

 

 

And yes, this is another account just for the forum cuz with rado84 I get only a blank page when I attempt to post in the forum. I tried everything to make it work and when it didn't, I decided to use the backup account.

I read all you said and I still claim the spotting system is a joke. Maybe you're right about bushes, maybe you're not - the fact is the spotting system wasn't this crap before 1.0. And also, just wait for the next replay to explain it to me how a 70 tons heavy tank disappears while moving 250 meters from me and how he shoots at me without being spotted on Wienersdorf. Then I wonder what else you're gonna make up to justify somebody's incompetence in WG.

 

Erm... ok, I missed out on the vents directive but you were NOT using the food in that battle.  Which also raises suspisions about the directive being active too...

Orkbert #23 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:19 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27159 battles
  • 1,963
  • Member since:
    08-29-2013

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

1. Says you. The game and this screenshot say otherwise about the view range:

 

And yes, this is another account just for the forum cuz with rado84 I get only a blank page when I attempt to post in the forum. I tried everything to make it work and when it didn't, I decided to use the backup account.

I read all you said and I still claim the spotting system is a joke. Maybe you're right about bushes, maybe you're not - the fact is the spotting system wasn't this crap before 1.0. And also, just wait for the next replay to explain it to me how a 70 tons heavy tank disappears while moving 250 meters from me and how he shoots at me without being spotted on Wienersdorf. Then I wonder what else you're gonna make up to justify somebody's incompetence in WG.

 

So AliceUnchained and especially Baldrickk explained your replay very detailed (thank you both for that) but then you choose to completely ignore that and instead keep on nitpicking about a 5 meters difference in view range, which is actually rather irrelevant to the topic anyways.

 

Sorry, they tried to help, but they can only do so much for people who actively try not to heed any advice.



Homer_J #24 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:23 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,218
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

I read all you said and I still claim the spotting system is a joke. Maybe you're right about bushes, maybe you're not - the fact is the spotting system wasn't this crap before 1.0.

 

No maybe about it Baldrickk is spot on.  And nothing changed with 1.0 apart from some bushes moved and some of the camo coefficients changed.  The mechanics work exactly as before.  Bushes work for you and against you.  If you want to hide behind 15 bushes then you need someone else to spot for you.

Bora_BOOM #25 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:32 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 26491 battles
  • 3,479
  • [DID0] DID0
  • Member since:
    08-23-2014
OP, just admit you where wrong, thank the guys for a spot on  explanation an move on with playing better using that knowledge.

azakow #26 Posted 19 January 2019 - 02:34 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 79357 battles
  • 4,940
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

OP, pls have look here:

 



DIREWOLF75 #27 Posted 19 January 2019 - 03:56 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 12658 battles
  • 42
  • Member since:
    01-13-2018

View PostHomer_J, on 19 January 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

No maybe about it Baldrickk is spot on.  And nothing changed with 1.0 apart from some bushes moved and some of the camo coefficients changed.  The mechanics work exactly as before.  Bushes work for you and against you.  If you want to hide behind 15 bushes then you need someone else to spot for you.

 

Spotting definitely changed with 1.0.   Before that, despite being very new to the game i had no issues in figuring out when i was in cover or not, it was also easy to figure out when you could spot where.   After 1.0?   It's become completely impossible.   One time when i played with the PzsfliVc, i remained invisible even when firing at targets that were less than 100m away, as well as when there were no bushes at all between me and enemies at less than 150m, more often however, it is the opposite, i never spot anyone and i'm always visible, somehow.

 

However, there's also some blatantly weird stuff that came with 1.0.   Where a whole bunch of tanks remain unseen until the one closest to you come into auto-detect range, then suddenly ALL tanks that should have been visible in the middle of that large field you have perfect vision over, just appear, all at the exact same time.

I wasn't sure the first few times it happened, but now i've seen it happen several times in situations where it is completely absurd.   And apparently, when it happens, it happens to BOTH sides, because even with tanks ending up in ramming distance before spotted, they don't ever try to shoot until i also spot them.

This has happened when standing in "transparent" bushes, with half the tank sticking up over the top of a ridge, when peeking halfway out around the corner of house or hill, while driving full speed through sparse forest...

 

For a while i wondered if it was lag, but it seems not.



CrazyLovex #28 Posted 19 January 2019 - 04:03 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 19376 battles
  • 321
  • Member since:
    07-20-2013

Edit: good job, OPs theory throughly debunked

No more to see here.. 


Edited by CrazyLovex, 19 January 2019 - 04:16 PM.


_Flagada_Jones_ #29 Posted 19 January 2019 - 04:10 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 33833 battles
  • 1,622
  • [OMGR] OMGR
  • Member since:
    03-20-2012
Yeah sure, the spotting systems is working fine when you can RAM an unspotted tank.

YOHIO_BG #30 Posted 19 January 2019 - 04:18 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 363 battles
  • 14
  • Member since:
    01-02-2015

View PostAliceUnchained, on 19 January 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

Doesn't change the fact that you did not have it in the game for which you provided the replay

 

Because the food is useless and doesn't work properly. So I removed it.

SABAOTH #31 Posted 19 January 2019 - 04:31 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 40172 battles
  • 3,494
  • [-133-] -133-
  • Member since:
    08-28-2011

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

I keep seeing these cases in 90% of the battles!

Strv S1 with 6 skills, 64,83% camo, ventilation, binoculars, food and 511 meters view range, 4-5 lines of bushes in front of me.

Case 1: an E25 and KV-3 both 2 squares away from me, both firing and killing my team mates and I can't spot them!

 

I have left you a subliminal clue in this quote :coin:

enu_ #32 Posted 19 January 2019 - 05:07 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Beta Tester
  • 22897 battles
  • 3,211
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    08-18-2010

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

Because the food is useless and doesn't work properly. So I removed it.

 

so why were you saying you have 511m view range?

Balc0ra #33 Posted 19 January 2019 - 05:27 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 70167 battles
  • 19,039
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

4-5 lines of bushes in front of me.

 

I stopped reading there. At least for once we had a clear case as to why instantly. The more double bushes there are. The less you will see. That 511m view range is still only 445 effective in terms of initial spotting . As in that's the max range you can spot anything, in the open, with no bushes, vs targets with no camo and crew skills. As in under perfect conditions. The 511m is only a factor when the system calculates when you spot them once they get to 445m or lower. As in that math is your view range vs their camo factor that gives a range that you will spot them in the open. Keyword here is "in the open".

 

And when you have a 2x double bush effect. You won't spot them, and they won't spot you. It's why most drive up to a bush, spot and drive back. As then they see the target already. But once they fire they can't be spotted back due to the bush. And the more bushes there are. The closer they have to be to see you.  As with 4-5 lines. We are talking 100m or less.

 

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

Maybe you're right about bushes, maybe you're not - the fact is the spotting system wasn't this crap before 1.0. And also, just wait for the next replay to explain it to me how a 70 tons heavy tank disappears while moving 250 meters from me and how he shoots at me without being spotted on Wienersdorf. Then I wonder what else you're gonna make up to justify somebody's incompetence in WG.

 

As for the first point. spotting system has not changed after 1.0. But what has changed was the maps, and the number of double bushes on some of them. And if you hide behind those... well.

 

As for your second point. For all we know your spotting lines was behind cover and you could not see anything, or your commander was dead. Just because parts of your front sticks out there, don't mean you will see anything in the open if that spotting line just hits the wall in front of you. 

 

I suggest you look at this too. This experiment at the point I marked was done in the open vs a 400m view range tank. Even then, they had to get close to be seen. 

 

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 19 January 2019 - 05:34 PM.


YOHIO_BG #34 Posted 19 January 2019 - 05:27 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 363 battles
  • 14
  • Member since:
    01-02-2015

View Postenu_, on 19 January 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

 

so why were you saying you have 511m view range?

 

Because the problems I mentioned happened when I was using it. After being unable to spot a heavy tank at short distance with 511 view range, I decided it's pointless to pay 20 000 silver for something useless and I removed it. Not to mention it doesn't properly in general. With food the dispersion becomes 0.36 when it should become 0.33.

Balc0ra #35 Posted 19 January 2019 - 05:37 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 70167 battles
  • 19,039
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

Because the problems I mentioned happened when I was using it. After being unable to spot a heavy tank at short distance with 511 view range, 

 

Seen the Birdbox challenge videos on youtube? That's basically your S1 when you try to spot behind that much soft cover. It's the simplest way to explain it. 

Bora_BOOM #36 Posted 19 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 26491 battles
  • 3,479
  • [DID0] DID0
  • Member since:
    08-23-2014
OP, dont use the red letters. Those are used by moderators.

Homer_J #37 Posted 19 January 2019 - 06:12 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,218
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostDIREWOLF75, on 19 January 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

I wasn't sure the first few times it happened, but now i've seen it happen several times in situations where it is completely absurd.  

I'm pretty certain of the answer but I will ask anyway.....

 

Do you have a replay?



enu_ #38 Posted 19 January 2019 - 06:36 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Beta Tester
  • 22897 battles
  • 3,211
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    08-18-2010

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

Because the problems I mentioned happened when I was using it. After being unable to spot a heavy tank at short distance with 511 view range, I decided it's pointless to pay 20 000 silver for something useless and I removed it. Not to mention it doesn't properly in general. With food the dispersion becomes 0.36 when it should become 0.33.

 

well its different if you don't know how premium consumables work, and you think it will give you something it doesn't give (as much as you think it would). to bad we don't have replay with that heavy tank, so we can analyze it like this one with bat chat

Bordhaw #39 Posted 19 January 2019 - 07:09 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 13588 battles
  • 3,896
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View PostYOHIO_BG, on 19 January 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

I keep seeing these cases in 90% of the battles!

Strv S1 with 6 skills, 64,83% camo, ventilation, binoculars, food and 511 meters view range, 4-5 lines of bushes in front of me.

Case 1: an E25 and KV-3 both 2 squares away from me, both firing and killing my team mates and I can't spot them! I agree that the E25 has high camo but KV-3 is a camo joke, so I should spot him the moment he fires.

Case 2: A heavy tank rushes through an open field on the map, I'm standing still (therefore the 511 view range is active) and I spot him literally seconds before he rams me.

Case 3: On Himmelsdorf I'm on K1 and I can see fences and other breakable objects being destroyed and I know someone's coming towards me but I can't spot them. That was an IS-3 which has a ridiculously low camo when moving and yet I couldn't spot him. He showed up when he was in less than 2 squares from me.

The other ridiculous thing happened several times on Prokhorovka and/or Fiery Salient - I can't remember which one of the two. There's a circle of bushes on D1, so I stop there in a way that all of the bushes around me are non-transparent, the 511 view range activates and wait. Not moving, not shooting, no nothing. Suddenly the 6th sense lamp activates because a SP I C somehow has spotted me somehow from G1. With all the necessary skills, ventilation and binoculars he should be able to spot me when he comes to 188 meters from me. When I aimed at him, it turned out he was 392 meters from me.

 

You gotta fix the spotting system, otherwise I see no point in buying premium stuff anymore.

 



arthurwellsley #40 Posted 19 January 2019 - 07:19 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 53389 battles
  • 3,778
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

What the wiki says below, please note the bold and underlined part OP

environmentCamo
You can use the different objects on the map to provide additional cover. Solid objects like terrain elevations, rocks, houses, or other static objects on the map cannot be seen through and thus always provide 100% camouflage, i.e. you will not be spotted. But also half-transparent objects like bushes or trees (up or felled) provide a camouflage bonus up to 64%, depending on the density of the object. A full list can be found here.

As soon as you fire your gun, the camouflage bonus provided by transparent objects in a 15m radius around your tank is reduced to 30% of the original value. Objects furter away are unaffected.

Environment camouflage bonuses stack, but special rules apply when firing your gun:
  • In the illustration to the right, each bush provides the same environment camouflage bonus X. Since these bonuses stack, tank 1 has an environmentCamo value of 3 * X.
  • However, as soon as tank 1 fires its gun, the environment bonuses within the 15m radius no longer stack. Instead, only the bonus from the bush with the highest camouflage bonus is taken into account. In addition, the bonus from that bush is reduced to 30% of its original value, so 0.3 * X. Bonuses from environment outside of the 15m radius stack as usual. Thus, while firing tank 1 has an environment camouflage bonus of 0.3 * X + X = 1.3 * X.
  • Note that environment bonuses get reduced only for the tank that fired - other tanks in the vicinity do not get penalized[1][2]

 

Baldrickk already analysed the replay. The multiple bushes had an effect that the OP is completely unaware of.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users