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Lansen C new upcoming t8 Premium swedish medium tank


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Dr_Oolen #21 Posted 23 January 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 23 January 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

 

This.

 

We live in a world of WG balance logic where massively armoured, already very mobile, Russian heavy tanks and medium tanks have like 0.06 or 0.08 dispersions on turret but paper stuff like the STB-1 get 0.13 dispersion on turret traverse because reasons.

 

Where tier 8 390 alpha and 440 alpha Russian heavies get 1.9k DPM, but 240 and 230 alpha meds with less armour get 1.8k DPM and light tanks with 1k HP and 150 alpha only get 2k DPM. 

 

WG need to get back to general rules to address the balance issues between paper tanks and armour tanks they used to have which were -

 

  • Alpha + armour = bad gun handling, low DPM, low mobility, low agility, bad accuracy.  
  • Low alpha + no armour = good gun handling, high DPM, high mobility, high agility, good accuracy.

 

Work around those two general principles. 

 

If you have a tank that is suited to close range brawling and trading, that has armour to enable it to aim, it should need to have to aim for a while and be bad at medium to long range combat.

 

If you have a tank not at all suited to close range brawling and trading, that has no armour to enable it to aim, it should barely need to aim and should excel at medium to long range combat. 

 

Instead we have the stupid situation where the 430U with armour better than many heavies has 50% better movement dispersion than the paper Leo 1. 

 

Oh and IMO, all Russian/Chinese 'heavium' type vehicles need their speed nerfing down, they should all drop down to 40-45kph, aside maybe the T-10 which is generally well balanced. 257s, IS7s, 5As, 277s, 430Us (<- just reclassify this thing as a heavy and be done with it IMO, remove its medium camo and agility) going 50kph and Cent AXs, STB-1s, Pattons etc. going 45-55kph is just stupid.

 

Again get back to lights fastest, mediums next fastest, heavies and TDs with armour = slow. 

 

Yes exactly, all these heaviums are one of the worst additions to wot in terms of some general balance and logic. Dunno where exactly i read it today on the forums, but someone wrote that the best t10 light tank is still a medium (batchat). To which i wanted to reply, but didnt, that also the best mediums are heavies (5A/277...) - because logic.

 

I was already facepalming when the first heaviums came and then saw them pass me/keep up with me in my mediums. Meanwhile all those heavies have alpha, armor and not even much worse gun handling than those mediums...

 

So yeah, just like you say - there imo shouldnt be any heavy tank (apart from all the french paper autoloaders) that can go more than 45. That said the french autoloaders are also super terrible in current meta - precisely because they arent any faster than the heaviums, while they have none of that armor or gun handling.

 

I wonder how WG can be so utterly blind and incapable of proper balance between paper/armored tanks.

 

They can literally take tanks.gg and put any random "paper" medium and compare it to any random rashn medium of same tier and they find out that literally the only advantage all those paper tanks have is in general 1-3° of gun depression, maybe 0-5 km/h top speed, maybe 5-10 mm better penetration and if they are lucky 0.02-0.04 better accuracy. While they have 50-100% worse gun dispersions, worse aimtimes, worse maneuvrability, much worse armor, worse camo and fewer hitpoints.  Like - where in the [edited]is the balance? 



Bordhaw #22 Posted 23 January 2019 - 08:58 PM

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View PostxXChiarusXx, on 23 January 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

So what you think about it ? 320 Alpha, great mobility,  2 nd. highest dpm and best camo of all -10 gun depression t8 tanks , aim time and accuracy are meh, and it should have around the same size as leo so also small and hard to hit, biggest downside: is blind, but to me looks good enough. 

 



PayMore #23 Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:01 PM

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Will it be possible to use crewmember from different nations in the new swedish line? Its very open counrty and their tank should relect that.

Discontinued #24 Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:11 PM

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Medium and tier 8, two words  that don't fit together

Unangwata #25 Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:14 PM

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Soon they could as well remove regular tanks from the game unless you play tier X.

NoobySkooby #26 Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:51 AM

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Not interested, #walletclosed for good

MrClark56 #27 Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:24 AM

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View PostDiscontinued, on 23 January 2019 - 09:11 PM, said:

Medium and tier 8, two words  that don't fit together

 

it only works if you add russian to the two words

XxKuzkina_MatxX #28 Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:32 AM

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View PostMrClark56, on 24 January 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

 

it only works if you add russian to the two words

 

But isn't the Progetto 46 one of the strong performers as a tier 8 medium?

MrClark56 #29 Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:08 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 January 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

But isn't the Progetto 46 one of the strong performers as a tier 8 medium?

 

statistical error that will be soon rushian rebalanced !! Da!! Need moaar vooodka!!

TungstenHitman #30 Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:11 AM

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1. It looks ugly, I don't like using ugly tanks. I like pug ugly tanks and odd looking tanks but not ugly ugly... if that makes sense.

 

2. Meh.....

 

3. Good camo, paper armor and a relatively slow and inaccurate gun that doesn't really suit sniping. Well that combo makes absolutely no sense then. So you use your excellent camo to remain unseen for what? to sit at the back and snipe badly and miss most your shots? To scout badly compared to alternative premium lights? or do you use that camo to get in close on your enemy unseen then spring your attack on him, deliver a mighty show stopping 320 alpha that's going to annoy a higher tier tank but certainly not kill, then realize you have absolutely no armor, not enough mobility to effectively circle anything other than a big slow dumb dumb tank alone so now you get to bend over and take one for the team Shawshank style? Am I reading those stats wrong? Because that's all I see those attributes playing out. 



the_nebuchadnezzar #31 Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:13 AM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 23 January 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

terribad tank

 

The usual WG balancing - the tanks with good armor that can take their time to at least aim a bit get the good gun handling, while the tanks with 0 armor that cant afford to stop and aim for long get the worst gun handling. And what do they get in return? In this case a bit of alpha and 3° of gun depression...

 

Why would anyone play this thing when they can play t-44-100 which has infinitely better armor, is just as fast (terrain resistances make the hp/t difference disappear), more maneuvrable, same VR, same health, same dpm, half the gun dispersions, much better aimtime, better accuracy... if the gun dispersions and aimtime were switched around then one could be talking about balance, but not like this... simply put - just another terribad paper medium that will forever get shat all over by comparatively op as [edited]rashn/chinese mediums like taip 59, t-44-100, t-44, t54 prot etc.

You are right about the T 44 100, but for some reason I can't find the impuls to play this tank after last year Frontline. Playing it in randoms seems wrong...



tajj7 #32 Posted 24 January 2019 - 11:28 AM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 23 January 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

Yes exactly, all these heaviums are one of the worst additions to wot in terms of some general balance and logic. Dunno where exactly i read it today on the forums, but someone wrote that the best t10 light tank is still a medium (batchat). To which i wanted to reply, but didnt, that also the best mediums are heavies (5A/277...) - because logic.

 

I was already facepalming when the first heaviums came and then saw them pass me/keep up with me in my mediums. Meanwhile all those heavies have alpha, armor and not even much worse gun handling than those mediums...

 

So yeah, just like you say - there imo shouldnt be any heavy tank (apart from all the french paper autoloaders) that can go more than 45. That said the french autoloaders are also super terrible in current meta - precisely because they arent any faster than the heaviums, while they have none of that armor or gun handling.

 

I wonder how WG can be so utterly blind and incapable of proper balance between paper/armored tanks.

 

They can literally take tanks.gg and put any random "paper" medium and compare it to any random rashn medium of same tier and they find out that literally the only advantage all those paper tanks have is in general 1-3° of gun depression, maybe 0-5 km/h top speed, maybe 5-10 mm better penetration and if they are lucky 0.02-0.04 better accuracy. While they have 50-100% worse gun dispersions, worse aimtimes, worse maneuvrability, much worse armor, worse camo and fewer hitpoints.  Like - where in the [edited]is the balance? 

 

Was on the hill on mines the other day in a light, and was struggling to get away from a 277, because a tier 10 heavy with 490 alpha and decent turret armour, high HP etc. is only like 15kph slower than most lights and the same speed as most meds. 

 

The whole thing with speed is you should have the ability to dictate the engagement, basically run away from frontal engagements with heavies, but at higher tiers often you can't because they all go like mediums.

 

And yes its funny, best tier 10 lights is the Bat Chat, a medium, and the best tier 10 mediums, are in reality, heavies, aside the 430U which is probably the best heavium, despite being a medium. 

 

The E5 IMO is an example of what a 'heavium' should be, not the best top speed, but good engine power, with good agility so that its clearly faster than the super heavies but not near the mediums. 

 

Also the 1-3% of gun depression advantage these tanks have is completely meh because WG changed so many map areas so that you either can hull down behind bumps with like 5 degrees, or you can't hull down at all even if you have -10. 



TankkiPoju #33 Posted 24 January 2019 - 11:57 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 24 January 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

The E5 IMO is an example of what a 'heavium' should be, not the best top speed, but good engine power, with good agility so that its clearly faster than the super heavies but not near the mediums. 

 

I think WG should give T110E5 back some actual role in the game. Now currently it isn't really good in anything.

 

While tanks like Obj277 can do it all.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 24 January 2019 - 11:59 AM.


baribal_80 #34 Posted 24 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 24 January 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

I think WG should give T110E5 back some actual role in the game. Now currently it isn't really good in anything.

 

While tanks like Obj277 can do it all.

 

​Imho they should keep everything else but just give it godlike gun handling. Better than any heavy and better than most if not all meds. This way it still kinda plays the same but is a bit different to other tanks

TankkiPoju #35 Posted 24 January 2019 - 12:50 PM

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View Postbaribal_80, on 24 January 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

​Imho they should keep everything else but just give it godlike gun handling. Better than any heavy and better than most if not all meds. This way it still kinda plays the same but is a bit different to other tanks

 

Obj277 has actually better gun handling soft stats than T110E5. While having 490 alpha. Because reasons :)

 

I agree E5 should be able to snap shot like boss. The gun handling should be on same levels as M48 Patton.



tajj7 #36 Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:01 PM

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Well for a start you could swap the gun handling between the Super Conq and E5, that would make that relationship more balanced. The Super Conq should be the stronger armour, more resistant, survivable one and the E5 the more mobile, better gun handling, but less armour one. At the moment the Super Conq is just better in almost every way aside mobility. 

 

But I'd also make the cupola much smaller like they did with the M48 Patton, or make it so that most of the cupola is like the E3s, but a small section is able to be penned by standard ammo.

 

But if like the 277, IS7, 260 etc. more went like 40-45kph and the 430U was properly nerfed so it has for example pennable cupolas, worse gun handling, then the E5 would have more of a role. 

 

Also the 279e with its stupid buffs now pretty much has better gun handling than the E5, despite also having more alpha, more DPM, better all round armour, more HP and only being marginally less mobile. 

 

And the 260 to E5 comparison is just laughable now, better gun handling, much faster, more alpha, better armour.  E5 has 100 Hp and 2 degrees of gun depression and that is about it. 


Edited by tajj7, 24 January 2019 - 01:04 PM.


snowlywhite #37 Posted 24 January 2019 - 01:05 PM

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looks like a PoS.

 

long aim time(look at softstats too) + no armor + bottom tier = disaster

 

also, "high alpha"? I mean, it's 320. Which is one of the worst alphas in game at that tier. High enough not to be able to permatrack, yet low enough not to actually scare anyone that matters in a battle.



pallie_the_artillerist #38 Posted Today, 01:08 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 24 January 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

Well for a start you could swap the gun handling between the Super Conq and E5, that would make that relationship more balanced. The Super Conq should be the stronger armour, more resistant, survivable one and the E5 the more mobile, better gun handling, but less armour one. At the moment the Super Conq is just better in almost every way aside mobility. 

 

But I'd also make the cupola much smaller like they did with the M48 Patton, or make it so that most of the cupola is like the E3s, but a small section is able to be penned by standard ammo.

 

But if like the 277, IS7, 260 etc. more went like 40-45kph and the 430U was properly nerfed so it has for example pennable cupolas, worse gun handling, then the E5 would have more of a role. 

 

Also the 279e with its stupid buffs now pretty much has better gun handling than the E5, despite also having more alpha, more DPM, better all round armour, more HP and only being marginally less mobile. 

 

And the 260 to E5 comparison is just laughable now, better gun handling, much faster, more alpha, better armour.  E5 has 100 Hp and 2 degrees of gun depression and that is about it. 

 

I like how every discussion you are in these days comes back to horrible inter-tank balancing. I also like how we could fix many of these issues in a matter of minutes if WG cared :D

RenamedUser_555746413 #39 Posted Today, 03:52 PM

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not a chance of a single penny from me

CyberRage #40 Posted Today, 04:13 PM

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380 view range is hardly blind for a tier 8 medium. But that aim time, dispersion and pen make this tank a dud. Huge paper target as well. Not going to be fun to play, pretty much the only thing this tank can do is camp from a ridge.

 

They should go back to making premium tanks mediocre but giving them premium mm, this would be a prime example of a tank that could be okay with premium mm. It worked so much better and generally made them more fun to play without messing with the balance.


Edited by CyberRage, Today, 04:16 PM.





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