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Perfect example why i love this game...

gold pay to win impossible impossible penetration

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DeathsBlade #1 Posted 26 January 2019 - 04:36 PM

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Hi all,

 

It's me again...

Lets do this in a technical manner. 

 

SU-130PM has 320mm penetration value with gold. (+/- RNG)

Caernarvon same tier "Heavy Tank" has an excellent turret armor, unbeatable in the gun area which is around 530mm+

 

So now we know the theory, lets see in practice:

First pic is from game play/ second from tanks.gg 

So i ask you, seriously?
(also please note i could never pen there tried shooting it and nothing, probably his gold is better than my gold... broken...)

 

shot_174.jpgshot_174_1.jpg



Erwin_Von_Braun #2 Posted 26 January 2019 - 04:38 PM

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:ohmy:

fighting_falcon93 #3 Posted 26 January 2019 - 05:13 PM

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"Premium ammo is good for the game" :trollface:

"Use your armor correctly and you will bounce premium ammo" :trollface:

"A players performance is not dependant on premium ammo" :trollface:

 

Ehrm sorry, I'm just mumbling some memories of previous conversations on this forum :D

 

And WG's "speziul ammo" rework has not solved any of the actual issues with it either...


Edited by fighting_falcon93, 26 January 2019 - 05:17 PM.


Darth_Yoda #4 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:46 AM

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View PostDeathsBlade, on 26 January 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

Hi all,

 

It's me again...

Lets do this in a technical manner. 

 

SU-130PM has 320mm penetration value with gold. (+/- RNG)

Caernarvon same tier "Heavy Tank" has an excellent turret armor, unbeatable in the gun area which is around 530mm+

 

So now we know the theory, lets see in practice:

First pic is from game play/ second from tanks.gg 

So i ask you, seriously?
(also please note i could never pen there tried shooting it and nothing, probably his gold is better than my gold... broken...)

 

shot_174.jpgshot_174_1.jpg

 

Try play with tanks.gg again, he hit place  where is only 269 armor. And its not 1 pixel area. And dont forget projectile is actually only 1 pixel large, so in theory u can shoot through key hole.


Edited by Darth_Yoda, 27 January 2019 - 12:55 AM.


Stalpanter #5 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:57 AM

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View PostDeathsBlade, on 26 January 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

Hi all,

 

It's me again...

Lets do this in a technical manner. 

 

SU-130PM has 320mm penetration value with gold. (+/- RNG)

Caernarvon same tier "Heavy Tank" has an excellent turret armor, unbeatable in the gun area which is around 530mm+

 

So now we know the theory, lets see in practice:

First pic is from game play/ second from tanks.gg 

So i ask you, seriously?
(also please note i could never pen there tried shooting it and nothing, probably his gold is better than my gold... broken...)

 

shot_174.jpgshot_174_1.jpg

 

A word: HEAT

PabloGee #6 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:03 AM

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View PostDeathsBlade, on 26 January 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

Hi all,

 

It's me again...

Lets do this in a technical manner. 

 

SU-130PM has 320mm penetration value with gold. (+/- RNG)

Caernarvon same tier "Heavy Tank" has an excellent turret armor, unbeatable in the gun area which is around 530mm+

 

So now we know the theory, lets see in practice:

First pic is from game play/ second from tanks.gg 

So i ask you, seriously?
(also please note i could never pen there tried shooting it and nothing, probably his gold is better than my gold... broken...)

 

shot_174.jpgshot_174_1.jpg

 

*edit*

 


Edited by _eLJay_, 27 January 2019 - 12:32 PM.
Offtopic


barison1 #7 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:12 AM

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wonder if you are salty aswell when this happens to the enemy you shoot. or when snapshotting a near impossible shot and still hitting/penning the enemy

 

sure rng can be stupidly weird but this rng applies to everyone, sometimes you have bad luck but it can be other way around aswell



OMG_Abaddon #8 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:23 AM

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View PostDarth_Yoda, on 27 January 2019 - 12:46 AM, said:

 

Try play with tanks.gg again, he hit place  where is only 269 armor. And its not 1 pixel area. And dont forget projectile is actually only 1 pixel large, so in theory u can shoot through key hole.

 

But only in theory, RNG will make your projectile fire backwards if necessary.

SuedKAT #9 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:05 AM

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The Caernarvon have a nice gun mantle in places, however plenty of it's gun mantle is just spaced armor with no armor behind it and the rest of the turret is flat 254 mm armor which effectiveness is closely tied to how you angle it, so I wouldn't say it have "excellent turret armor", more like workable. Also the hit markers you see in-game ain't exact, they are more a graphical indication of which area of your tank took a hit than anything and considering that the point it looks like the shot hit have areas all around it that's just 254 mm of armor it's quite safe to assume that was the place of impact. 

HassenderZerhacker #10 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:18 AM

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View PostDeathsBlade, on 26 January 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

Hi all,

 

It's me again...

Lets do this in a technical manner. 

 

SU-130PM has 320mm penetration value with gold. (+/- RNG)

Caernarvon same tier "Heavy Tank" has an excellent turret armor, unbeatable in the gun area which is around 530mm+

 

So now we know the theory, lets see in practice:

First pic is from game play/ second from tanks.gg 

So i ask you, seriously?
(also please note i could never pen there tried shooting it and nothing, probably his gold is better than my gold... broken...)

 

shot_174.jpgshot_174_1.jpg

 

the whole gun mantle is 269mm, some places 254mm

 

move along, nothing to see here.



SuedKAT #11 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:56 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 27 January 2019 - 02:18 AM, said:

 

the whole gun mantle is 269mm, some places 254mm

 

move along, nothing to see here.

 

The sections of the gun mantle that's 269 mm (or more) is spaced armor which would absorb the SU-130M's HEAT shell, however sections of the hit marker shown on OP's tank is over the normal flat 254 mm turret armor which is most likely the place which the shell penetrated. 

gpalsson #12 Posted 27 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

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This is how your tank looks to the SU HEAT shell.

Unsurprisingly, he penned you. What is surprising is that he penned you with HEAT in the mantlet since it it spaced. I do however suspect his first shot whcih was AP was the ony hitting you in the mantlet (not the one you are pointing at, but the part he has a 30% chance of penning with AP).


Edited by gpalsson, 27 January 2019 - 09:17 AM.


Dava_117 #13 Posted 27 January 2019 - 10:50 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 27 January 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

This is how your tank looks to the SU HEAT shell.

Unsurprisingly, he penned you. What is surprising is that he penned you with HEAT in the mantlet since it it spaced. I do however suspect his first shot whcih was AP was the ony hitting you in the mantlet (not the one you are pointing at, but the part he has a 30% chance of penning with AP).

 

It's not like HEAT get allways eaten by spaced armour. Spaced armour pre-detonate the shaped charge but the jet can still pen the primary armour if it's close enought. 

In WoT you need 2m of air to completely absorb an HEAT shell.



gpalsson #14 Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:38 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 27 January 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

 

It's not like HEAT get allways eaten by spaced armour. Spaced armour pre-detonate the shaped charge but the jet can still pen the primary armour if it's close enought. 

In WoT you need 2m of air to completely absorb an HEAT shell.

 

2 meters of air? Hmm...that sounds a bit much.

Anyway, I just looked at what available on tanks.gg that's all.



Dava_117 #15 Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:41 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 27 January 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

 

2 meters of air? Hmm...that sounds a bit much.

Anyway, I just looked at what available on tanks.gg that's all.

 

Well, the penetration drop is linear with the distance. After 50cm you already lost 25% of the penetrating power, after 1m you are at 50% and so on. 2m is the point at wich the shell reach 0mm of piercing power and the game remove it.

gpalsson #16 Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 27 January 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

Well, the penetration drop is linear with the distance. After 50cm you already lost 25% of the penetrating power, after 1m you are at 50% and so on. 2m is the point at wich the shell reach 0mm of piercing power and the game remove it.

 

I guess that in paxis that doesn't matter then. I doubt there are ever any spaced armor in the game with more than 5-10 cm of air behind it. So we can pretty much completely discount that rule then.

The only time it will actually matter is when shooting fences and other objects that are not armor.


Edited by gpalsson, 27 January 2019 - 11:47 AM.


Dava_117 #17 Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:56 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 27 January 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

 

I guess that in paxis that doesn't matter then. I doubt there are ever any spaced armor in the game with more than 5-10 cm of air behind it. So we can pretty much completely discount that rule then.

The only time it will actually matter is when shooting fences and other objects that are not armor.

 

Most soviet HTs spaced armour have around 30-40cm of air in the largest part that, coupled with no normalization is really prone to absorb HEAT. Also there are a lot of thick tracks at high tier that may be even 40-60cm that is already a 20-30% reduction just due to the distance travelled by the jet, without counting the track armour.

As an example a 340 pen HEAT shoot at a 50cm track (think E100 and Maus track are around this size if not bigger) with 50mm of effective armour will lose 135mm of penetrating power, leaving the track area with 205mm of piercing power left.


Edited by Dava_117, 27 January 2019 - 11:57 AM.


gpalsson #18 Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:57 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 27 January 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

 

Most soviet HTs spaced armour have around 30-40cm of air in the largest part that, coupled with no normalization is really prone to absorb HEAT. Also there are a lot of thick tracks at high tier that may be even 40-60cm that is already a 20-30% reduction just due to the distance travelled by the jet, without counting the track armour.

As an example a 340 pen HEAT shoot at a 50cm track (think E100 and Maus track are around this size if not bigger) with 50mm of effective armour will lose 135mm of penetrating power, leaving the track area with 205mm of piercing capacity.

 

TIL

azakow #19 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:09 PM

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Yes. yes sh!t hapnz things go wrong every single match.

 

It is cool to know that there is a "weak spot", since I already gave up shooting at GB turrets a long time ago.

Moreover, the knowledge that opponets love this is un payable.

:great:


Edited by azakow, 27 January 2019 - 12:09 PM.


AliceUnchained #20 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:20 PM

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View PostDarth_Yoda, on 27 January 2019 - 12:46 AM, said:

Try play with tanks.gg again, he hit place  where is only 269 armor. And its not 1 pixel area. And dont forget projectile is actually only 1 pixel large, so in theory u can shoot through key hole.

 

Exactly, it's right above the gun and pretty much exactly where OP got hit. 

 

@OP: Next time put in just a tiny bit more effort and do some proper checking yourself first hmm? I took me 5 seconds to find the area above the gun with 269,9 mm armor only. And then there's the 254 mm only turret armor of course.






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