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Obj.277 faster than IS-7


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Unangwata #1 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:18 PM

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IS-7 and Obj.277 have same ground resistance.

Beside that, IS-7 has better power/weight ratio and top speed.

Yet Obj.277 has better acceleration and generally moves faster than IS-7.

Puzzling, some hidden tweak by WG ?

No sense. Other factors ?


Edited by Unangwata, 27 January 2019 - 12:19 PM.


Sfinski #2 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:27 PM

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Turning in IS7 slows it far more.

Unangwata #3 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:30 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 27 January 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Turning in IS7 slows it far more.

 

So we are missing some stats in tanks.gg.

Or lower traverse speed slows tanks more ?

Anyways, Obj.277 still goes faster when straight.



HundeWurst #4 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:36 PM

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It has been revealed (you can find somewhere on reddit) that there are further hidden stats WG keeps in total secrecy, or at least tries.

Dr_Oolen #5 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:38 PM

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It became quite obvious there is another level of hidden stats on that testserver where wg tried to shoehorn all classes into some particular playstyle, where grille with its 20 hp/t was slower than e4 with some 12 hp/t. Next time i noticed that was when 268 v4 was added into game, as 268v4 accelerated much faster than grille despite having worse hp/t and terrain resistances. So yeah, there are some hidden-hidden stats that arbitrarily nerf/buff engine horsepower/max top speed achievable on each terrain and speed loss when turning.

 

edit: and as hundewursts wrote, fairly recently someone actually made actual measurements and tests proving that is the case


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 27 January 2019 - 12:39 PM.


PervyPastryPuffer #6 Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:54 PM

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Even though they have the same p/w ratio, the 277 weighs much less...I suppose that has something to do with it, at least initially the 277 can accelerate faster.

 

There's also probably some difference in the torque output between each tank, because some might have diesel engines, which are known for their higher torque and pulling power (used in trucks, for example, for heavy loads) The Grille 15 for example, can equip a gasoline consumable, so it's using a petrol engine, and the Obj 268 4's engine is a diesel, so off the line it will be faster.

 

If you ask me, the hidden stat is engine torque. WG only shows the horsepower output but torque is hidden because, I guess...it complicates things for the simple individual. :facepalm:

 

Edit: I just checked the IS-7 and 277's engines: The 277's engine weighs almost twice as much. As both are diesel engines, this leads me to the assumption that the 277's engine is much larger, and can therefore produce more torque. That, or the weight counts the gearbox size too, which could also mean, seeing as the 277 is a more modern tank, that it has a better gearbox with more gears, etc., and can accelerate more efficiently due to that.


Edited by PervyPastryPuffer, 27 January 2019 - 12:59 PM.


Unangwata #7 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:10 PM

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View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 27 January 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:

Even though they have the same p/w ratio, the 277 weighs much less...I suppose that has something to do with it, at least initially the 277 can accelerate faster.

 

There's also probably some difference in the torque output between each tank, because some might have diesel engines, which are known for their higher torque and pulling power (used in trucks, for example, for heavy loads) The Grille 15 for example, can equip a gasoline consumable, so it's using a petrol engine, and the Obj 268 4's engine is a diesel, so off the line it will be faster.

 

If you ask me, the hidden stat is engine torque. WG only shows the horsepower output but torque is hidden because, I guess...it complicates things for the simple individual. :facepalm:

 

Edit: I just checked the IS-7 and 277's engines: The 277's engine weighs almost twice as much. As both are diesel engines, this leads me to the assumption that the 277's engine is much larger, and can therefore produce more torque. That, or the weight counts the gearbox size too, which could also mean, seeing as the 277 is a more modern tank, that it has a better gearbox with more gears, etc., and can accelerate more efficiently due to that.

 

Gear box theory seems most valid. Didn't think of that. Although don't know if WG thinks of it either, as we cannot hear gear change while riding tanks, or it's just cosmetic issue.

Edited by Unangwata, 27 January 2019 - 01:12 PM.


Dava_117 #8 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:15 PM

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Saddly WG removed the RPM indicator from the hud. It would have been nice to count the gear for those tanks and take note of the speed at wich the driver change gear.

PervyPastryPuffer #9 Posted 27 January 2019 - 01:40 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 27 January 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

Saddly WG removed the RPM indicator from the hud. It would have been nice to count the gear for those tanks and take note of the speed at wich the driver change gear.

 

They did it to hide how OP the new tanks are to make them seem balanced.

 

 

Jokes aside I REALLY miss that feature...they said it was CPU-intensive or whatnot? Well they're giving us multi-threading in 1.4 so why don't they bring it back??? :facepalm:



gpalsson #10 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:01 PM

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That's next level BS right there. Why would WG even do that? I can't see the benefit for them of having even more hidden stats.

PervyPastryPuffer #11 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:23 PM

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View Postgpalsson, on 27 January 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

That's next level BS right there. Why would WG even do that? I can't see the benefit for them of having even more hidden stats.

 

What, engine torque?

 

Because rEaLisM in an arcade game, I guess. :D And, they hid it because it's too complicated for some people...most people...that's if it's even a thing, same goes for the gearbox.



gpalsson #12 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:31 PM

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View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 27 January 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

 

What, engine torque?

 

Because rEaLisM in an arcade game, I guess. :D And, they hid it because it's too complicated for some people...most people...that's if it's even a thing, same goes for the gearbox.

 

Hah yes :)

Serisously though, spotting mechanics are too complicated for a large amount of people. Armor angles and normalization are too complicated for many. It's no excuse. If it's a mechanic in the game and it affects something, it should say so in the stats.



samuelx43a #13 Posted 27 January 2019 - 02:36 PM

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I supose that is why I see any trackors have any form of a petrol engine.

 

I was going to comment on ground stats too, as they made the IS-7 very sluggish, and I read or heard somerwhere that it has one of the worst ground stats in the game, I think ony surpassed by the cdc(lol)



wEight_Tanker #14 Posted 27 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

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Isn't 277's armor garbage compared to iS-7?

baribal_80 #15 Posted 27 January 2019 - 06:04 PM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 27 January 2019 - 11:36 AM, said:

It has been revealed (you can find somewhere on reddit) that there are further hidden stats WG keeps in total secrecy, or at least tries.

 

It's a ratio between the 2 stats we know. It's either weight to resistance or some craplike that. Someone mentioned it on wotlabs that it's calculable. 

pudelikael #16 Posted 27 January 2019 - 06:23 PM

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View PostUnangwata, on 27 January 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

IS-7 and Obj.277 have same ground resistance.

Beside that, IS-7 has better power/weight ratio and top speed.

Yet Obj.277 has better acceleration and generally moves faster than IS-7.

Puzzling, some hidden tweak by WG ?

No sense. Other factors ?

 

Fantasy game, don't look for reality and don't compare fantasy numbers that don't even exist

fisco77 #17 Posted 27 January 2019 - 06:53 PM

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I'd say it's torque too, the same thing was noticed between the Skorpion G and SU-130PM, they have the same terrain resistance values and virtually the same HP/t, but the SU is much slower than the Skorpion...

TankkiPoju #18 Posted 27 January 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 27 January 2019 - 05:47 PM, said:

Isn't 277's armor garbage compared to iS-7?

 

Sure it's worse, but armor on 277 is still pretty decent. And the turret has very small weakspots.... unlike tanks like 5A which has huge cupolas.

wEight_Tanker #19 Posted 27 January 2019 - 09:26 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 27 January 2019 - 08:53 PM, said:

 

Sure it's worse, but armor on 277 is still pretty decent. And the turret has very small weakspots.... unlike tanks like 5A which has huge cupolas.

 

IS-7 beats it, though... except the 277 has no thin lower glacis problem or peepee gun.

Edited by wEight_Tanker, 27 January 2019 - 09:26 PM.


WoT_RU_Doing #20 Posted 27 January 2019 - 10:12 PM

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There was a similar discussion when the SU-130PM was released, as it would surprisingly slow compared to the Skorpion G....http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/695583-su130-pm-why-is-that-so/




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