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Trouble understanding the balancing

balancing

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R3dM0nKey #1 Posted 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM

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My problem is that I have only one premium tank, a Type59 (not counting some small ones like Tetrarch/T-50-2) and I drive it to make credits. 

I can't load special ammo or else the purpose of driving a premium tank would be gone. Pretty easy to understand.

 

Now there are constantly Object 252 U Defender in the enemy team. According to Tanks.gg there is a zero percentage chance that I can penetrate the front.

There is a tiny weak spot on top of the turret that is 2 pixel wide which is nearly impossible to hit, especially if I don't want to eat shots meanwhile.

So obviously I shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever at it's front. I got it, I'm a medium tank.

 

Then I checked the sides and it says something like ~59% chance to penetrate a 4 pixel wide side and another 4 pixel wide side that is troll armor and will eat the shot 100% of the time. Keep in mind that is with ZERO angle. On 10° it's a whooping ~20% chance and on more it's ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. 

2019-01-28 01_24_14-$.png
 

So how am I supposed to kill a defender in my Type59? I'm out of ideas and lost 10 out of 10 fights against it when I'm Top tank and the enemy have a Defender but we get something else.

I mean it's a team game, sure but this Defender tanks usually hold one side ALONE against half of my team. Usually it's 0:7 and the Defender very often lost like 10% of his health.

So driving away and let one side die completely is the only option I have? Tracking it hull down doesn't help much.

There's only a 50% chance that my team top tank is on the same side as the Defender. On maps with more than one lane there's only a 33% or less chance the Defender is on the same spot as my matched team mate. And even than it's not clear if our tank is able to deal with it's enormous damage. It needs to be a tier 8 tank with 300 or more penetration to go through it when it's hull down. 

 

I'm by no means a good player that's why I have trouble dealing with this tank if I play against some Defender player with less skill. I'd still lose. 

Please keep in mind that most maps are build with narrow passages so flanking is rarely an option and the tank can obviously turn it's hull. 

 

My second question is how to deal with a defender as a tierVI tank? So far tracking it didn't work for me as I usually don't have enough structure to eat more than one round.

Thanks for any help. 


Edited by R3dM0nKey, 28 January 2019 - 01:30 AM.


Robbie_T #2 Posted 28 January 2019 - 05:08 AM

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I dont have a type 59.

But they can be annoying as hell ...think best tactic is if its 1 vs 1 use your speed and try to get some shots in from behind.... pray that he dont have a too good crew and out spot him.

Tier 6 vs Defender....if its 1 vs 1 you screwed...better out run him hide and try to draw the game.the  best option i think.

Or get a fight against the Defender that was in my team today(top tier) eating out of his nose on the redline. (300 games played)

 

 



TankkiPoju #3 Posted 28 January 2019 - 06:52 AM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My second question is how to deal with a defender as a tierVI tank? So far tracking it didn't work for me as I usually don't have enough structure to eat more than one round.

 

The same way as tier 6 tanks deal with Type 59.

gpalsson #4 Posted 28 January 2019 - 07:18 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 28 January 2019 - 05:52 AM, said:

 

The same way as tier 6 tanks deal with Type 59.

 

But he can't pen the sides of the Defender.

 

OP you need to load gold for that particular tank. Shooting the defender = shooting gold. It's just the way it is.



SuperOlsson #5 Posted 28 January 2019 - 07:24 AM

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1. As it appears this game does not strive for balance. There are a lot of overpowered and underpowered vehicles in this game.

2. Never shoot russian heavies that high, best place is between skirt and tracks (except obj. 257). Hit him a tad lower and the armor is 120 mm effective.

3. In that picture the defender is angled perfectly xD



TankkiPoju #6 Posted 28 January 2019 - 09:18 AM

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View Postgpalsson, on 28 January 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:

 

But he can't pen the sides of the Defender.

 

OP you need to load gold for that particular tank. Shooting the defender = shooting gold. It's just the way it is.

 

That's also how tier 6 tanks deal with Type 59s.

 

I guess the main point was OP is complaining about Defenders while playing one of the best tier 8 tanks in the game himself... which even meets tier 6-7 tanks a lot more than Defender.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM.


Homer_J #7 Posted 28 January 2019 - 09:42 AM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 12:27 AM, said:

 

I can't load special ammo or else the purpose of driving a premium tank would be gone. Pretty easy to understand.

 

Type 59 makes a profit shooting premium, as long as you do damage.

 

And you use a few premium shells and survive to do more damage using regular shells.

 

So stop crippling yourself and use all the tools at your disposal.



Dava_117 #8 Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:18 AM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My problem is that I have only one premium tank, a Type59 (not counting some small ones like Tetrarch/T-50-2) and I drive it to make credits. 

I can't load special ammo or else the purpose of driving a premium tank would be gone. Pretty easy to understand.

 

Now there are constantly Object 252 U Defender in the enemy team. According to Tanks.gg there is a zero percentage chance that I can penetrate the front.

There is a tiny weak spot on top of the turret that is 2 pixel wide which is nearly impossible to hit, especially if I don't want to eat shots meanwhile.

So obviously I shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever at it's front. I got it, I'm a medium tank.

 

Then I checked the sides and it says something like ~59% chance to penetrate a 4 pixel wide side and another 4 pixel wide side that is troll armor and will eat the shot 100% of the time. Keep in mind that is with ZERO angle. On 10° it's a whooping ~20% chance and on more it's ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. 

2019-01-28 01_24_14-$.png
 

So how am I supposed to kill a defender in my Type59? I'm out of ideas and lost 10 out of 10 fights against it when I'm Top tank and the enemy have a Defender but we get something else.

I mean it's a team game, sure but this Defender tanks usually hold one side ALONE against half of my team. Usually it's 0:7 and the Defender very often lost like 10% of his health.

So driving away and let one side die completely is the only option I have? Tracking it hull down doesn't help much.

There's only a 50% chance that my team top tank is on the same side as the Defender. On maps with more than one lane there's only a 33% or less chance the Defender is on the same spot as my matched team mate. And even than it's not clear if our tank is able to deal with it's enormous damage. It needs to be a tier 8 tank with 300 or more penetration to go through it when it's hull down. 

 

I'm by no means a good player that's why I have trouble dealing with this tank if I play against some Defender player with less skill. I'd still lose. 

Please keep in mind that most maps are build with narrow passages so flanking is rarely an option and the tank can obviously turn it's hull. 

 

My second question is how to deal with a defender as a tierVI tank? So far tracking it didn't work for me as I usually don't have enough structure to eat more than one round.

Thanks for any help. 

 

In Type59 you have 3 possible ways to take down a Defender:

1) If you find it sideways, shot the armour behind tracks. It's just 90mm and with your new and improved pen it's a piece of cake for your gun and can track it too as a side effect.

2) Load premium round, shoot the low frontal plate, kill the Defender, load AP, pown lower tier in your new and improved bully tank making great profict.

3) If the Defender is hulldown, get closer in and hulldown position too and go for the cupolas. The engine deck is also a viable option as your 100mm can overmatch the 30mm deck.

 

In a tier 6 tank it's the same as point 1 and 3 for the Type59. You can pen it quite easily on cupolas, engine deck and side/rear. Your best beth is to swarm it with other tanks and use those weacknesses to deal constant damage. Especually sides and rear should be the target for tier 6 MTs as many of them lack the pen to punch trought the cupolas and/or lack the 90+mm of gun caliber to overmatch the engine deck.

From 105mm and greater, you can also load HE and aim at the turret lower part, to splash the hull roof or right under the tank to splash the soft belly plate.



Balc0ra #9 Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

So how am I supposed to kill a defender in my Type59? I'm out of ideas and lost 10 out of 10 fights against it when I'm Top tank and the enemy have a Defender but we get something else.

I mean it's a team game, sure but this Defender tanks usually hold one side ALONE against half of my team. Usually it's 0:7 and the Defender very often lost like 10% of his health.

 

The issue is that your Type 59 is from an old, old meta. Mind set and the targets it faced were different. Heck even the T26E4 went from getting 170 pen to 202 pen after numerous buffs. Type 59 lingers just above the T69 and T95E2 on pen. And right under the T-44-100. In a rather tricky spot for a tier 8 med in the current meta in terms of pen vs newer tier 8 meds. As now the standard is 210 ish more or less there.

 

Tho at the perfect impact angle, you have a 100% chance right above the tracks or the rear ofc. Center side is more or less as big of a target to hit and gives way less. So flanking close range, right above the tracks is where you want to be. But like any tier 8 med of mine.. I don't brawl with it. I don't like to flank it in a corridor or play on his turf. Even with the low ROF he has. Open ground and distance is your only friend if possible. And the best weapon you got on most guns vs it. Spot, track, bully. As if he is alone as you said, then you force him on your ground. I never go on his turf I can avoid it in a med unless I have a wolf pack with me. If that is not an option, then tracking, flanking and rear and side shots by keeping his turret moving. If that is not even an option due to a narrow corridor. Then I'll let him sit there tbh and go bully something else.



R3dM0nKey #10 Posted 28 January 2019 - 04:41 PM

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I appreciate your good feedback. I will try to remember all of this for the next battle. Thx

HassenderZerhacker #11 Posted 28 January 2019 - 05:38 PM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My problem is that I have only one premium tank, a Type59 (not counting some small ones like Tetrarch/T-50-2) and I drive it to make credits. 

I can't load special ammo or else the purpose of driving a premium tank would be gone. Pretty easy to understand.

 

Now there are constantly Object 252 U Defender in the enemy team. According to Tanks.gg there is a zero percentage chance that I can penetrate the front.

There is a tiny weak spot on top of the turret that is 2 pixel wide which is nearly impossible to hit, especially if I don't want to eat shots meanwhile.

So obviously I shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever at it's front. I got it, I'm a medium tank.

 

Then I checked the sides and it says something like ~59% chance to penetrate a 4 pixel wide side and another 4 pixel wide side that is troll armor and will eat the shot 100% of the time. Keep in mind that is with ZERO angle. On 10° it's a whooping ~20% chance and on more it's ZERO PERCENT CHANCE. 

2019-01-28 01_24_14-$.png
 

So how am I supposed to kill a defender in my Type59? I'm out of ideas and lost 10 out of 10 fights against it when I'm Top tank and the enemy have a Defender but we get something else.

I mean it's a team game, sure but this Defender tanks usually hold one side ALONE against half of my team. Usually it's 0:7 and the Defender very often lost like 10% of his health.

So driving away and let one side die completely is the only option I have? Tracking it hull down doesn't help much.

There's only a 50% chance that my team top tank is on the same side as the Defender. On maps with more than one lane there's only a 33% or less chance the Defender is on the same spot as my matched team mate. And even than it's not clear if our tank is able to deal with it's enormous damage. It needs to be a tier 8 tank with 300 or more penetration to go through it when it's hull down. 

 

I'm by no means a good player that's why I have trouble dealing with this tank if I play against some Defender player with less skill. I'd still lose. 

Please keep in mind that most maps are build with narrow passages so flanking is rarely an option and the tank can obviously turn it's hull. 

 

My second question is how to deal with a defender as a tierVI tank? So far tracking it didn't work for me as I usually don't have enough structure to eat more than one round.

Thanks for any help. 

 

If you shoot Defenders squarely from the side, you have a good chance to pen it, something like 95% from a perpendicular angle.

 

Anyway, as other posters said, your role in a Type 59 is not to shoot heavily armored targets from the front arc.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #12 Posted 28 January 2019 - 05:48 PM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My problem is that I have only one premium tank, a Type59 (not counting some small ones like Tetrarch/T-50-2) and I drive it to make credits. 

I can't load special ammo or else the purpose of driving a premium tank would be gone. Pretty easy to understand.

 

Only if you bounce. So long as you pen the shot you pretty much break even. So use the gold when you absolutely need to and make your credits the rest of the time firing standard.

HundeWurst #13 Posted 28 January 2019 - 06:17 PM

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Hey there.

It is far better to load the occasional gold shell rather than staying away from them entirely, especially considering that you are playing a premium. 

In the long run shooting the occasional premium round will make you much more credits since you will be winning more games by talking out very powerful games. Winning games will make you many more credits.

 

Ofc that does not mean that you should spam premium shells but a considered amount does do no harm. 

 

And yes you are right after all. The defender is a way to overarmored tank which is just semi balanced by the abysmal tier 8 matchmaking. 



Yaccay #14 Posted 29 January 2019 - 07:12 AM

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View PostR3dM0nKey, on 28 January 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My problem is that ....

 

Dear R3dM0nKey,

 

You misunderstand WG's balancing.

WG's balancing does not really create actual balanced gameplay, does not create actually balanced tanks.

WG's balancing is balanced for WG's profit. A tank which is not sold for money, instead sold for lottery tickets, for more money.  :medal:

 

Now a quote:

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”


George Orwell, Animal Farm



Tealo #15 Posted 29 January 2019 - 07:25 AM

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The irony is Serb was the one whom argued to keep to the mathematic formula (table) Wg had come up with to translate tank stats into the game and too mantain it .. For the sake of game balance .. He lost the argument back in 2014 ..:arta:


Edited by Tealo, 29 January 2019 - 07:27 AM.






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