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Have you ever considered why he/she is bad?

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DracheimFlug #41 Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:19 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 30 January 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

A very large proportion of the playerbase can be classed as this IMO. 

 

A very large percentage of the general population can also likely be so classified though..... 

undutchable80 #42 Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:20 PM

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My biggest challenges in this game:

- Situational Awareness; continuously checking the mini map and being able to "read" the flow of the game and reacting to it on time. 

- Tank stats; there are soooooo many tanks in the game and even more so 2-3 times the number of guns. Learning armour models, weak spots, reload times, pen values (especially of my tank vs my enemy and vice versa). Its a lot! It boggles my mind how players like QB and Circon can get hit and then notice "hey, that tank is using the stock gun". 

- Patience; 5 vs 2 in a map square and I am generally the one to spearhead the attack - get wrecked only to notice the other 4 havent moved at all. Or wanting to do my complete clip in dmg in stead of backing off after shot two, etc.

- There is more, but I think for that that'll do. ;)



seXikanac #43 Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 30 January 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

I might approach rarely topics seriously, however the level of toxicity, report abuse and various nasty stuff in World of Tanks are a bit annoying, expecially when addressed to poor players.

 

I wonder if you ever consider why a given player is so bad, so what factors come into play?

 

There is the human factor:

  • Lack of skill in using gun, terrain, armor
  • Lack of knowledge about positions, concealment

 

That's pretty much it when it comes to "player's faults"

 

But then there are reasons that are seldom considered and imho set apart the players that are hopeless from those that perform bad but try hard.

 

Few examples:

  • Low fps: it's really a handicap to play with low fps and will drastically impact performances
  • Poor graphics (sort of related): bad rendering of the terrain will trick you in shooting a visible tank just to hit an invisible wall, draw distance reduced will make it impossible to blidshot bushes from safety even if you know there got to be someone in some bush, understanding the terrain layout is also more difficult
  • High ping: you will never ever win a quick draw fight, your shot will always be the slowest and this counts on survival
  • Lag spikes: I am a decent player but with yesterday had my wifi going full Siema with random lag spikes, that alone results in a 750 WN8 drop. You see often tanks that could get the same, expecially if they are inexperienced that is fatal for the match

 

So when you get annoyed by someone before getting salty try to separate if it's really because of bad decision making and bad attitude, or if there might be other reasons for poor performances.

 

Do what you want of this, it's just my 2 cents consideration that we might all need to relax a bit and be more comrades even with tomatoes. :coin:

 

  • Tired of matchmaking so dont pay too much attention to game when its 5th battle in a row when you are botom tier tank
  • Playing from work or having wifey/kids or pet = have to often go AFK
  • Stock tanks being useless (slow or no penetration) so just play as bot until you get enough enough XP for better gun
  • Have other things in life that have to be finished but dont want to miss that 2X so starting battle and do other things
  • Dont care about stats so have fun while trying to solo hold one flank, etc. Having fun is not same for everyone
  • Etc


HaZardeur #44 Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:26 PM

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They only bad because all player that are better are cheaters, true story.

The_DarkAnathema #45 Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:43 PM

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Not everyone is a strategic/memorization genius. If it takes you 5K battles to have 3000 WN8, tomatoes like us will need 50K to have half the WN8.

 

Now the funny thing is people don't realise that bad players are essential in WoT, in a situation where everyone has unicum stats and a perfect understanding of game mechanics and knowledge about maps and all tanks in the game, who are you going to use as a meatshield?

Who is going to play carelessly enough so you can destroy them?

Who is not going to spam gold to negate your armor?

Who is going to take underpowered tanks for you to bully?

When shells starts flying, who will receive most of the damage?

 

Well players like me. If I was as good as any unicum do you think I would make these mistakes? Its because I play badly that good players can farm me but make no mistake, I do the same to players that play even more badly than me. I'm fully aware that if they were as good as me I would have had far worse stats.



Discontinued #46 Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:28 PM

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So Ive been playing on and off for around 4-5 years with some lengthy breaks in between and my win% used to be far better ,as I was a filthy seal clubber.

 

I had fake arsed stats..now I've decided to actually learn to play I watch & read guides keep mental notes and analyse my replays unless i did something so deumb its plainly obvious.

 

I dont really agree wit ONGabaddon's arguments about it being pay to win. i hardly spent money in  the past and could easily compete against and deal with the  clubbers.

 

I think the real issue is the rushing of the tiers which WG seem to encourage now ,rather than in the old days it took many 100's of games to even ht tier 5.

 

After a total of around 13-14k games and with Mrs Disco away abroad for work for the last few weeks, my in game time has increased markedly to around 8-10 hours a day!  This is paying off as Ive recently started to get better as others have said I no longer jump from tank to tank and focus on one or two.

 

Its like others have said you get various "I see" moments in the game and i can feel that things are on the up..I'm more aware of the vehicles Ii face at high tiers and their weak spots, as well as looking at team composition in the countdown and making decisions about map location depending on my enemies.my dmg is increasing as well as victories.

 

No point in fighting a Defender in a tier 7 A40, so ill go to the medium places, rather than the heavy brawl spots.

 

Much of it is familiarity and a willingness to learn..some people convince themselves that only nerds get good..and think win loss is completely beyond their control

 

Someone made a post "are we all middle aged men?"

 

I think that could be the issue to some extent when it comes to bad players, I toon with some RL mates some are simlar to me in terms of skill but others omg and they have literally 0 experience online gaming. some of the stuff they do is staggering, like driving around one handed while sipping wine! Im shouting turret, turret behind you etc etc and still they do nothing but drive towards enemy turret pointed backwards and die....lame as F**k but then they are my RL friends so I cant really rage at them 

 

They genuinely don't care for stats or wins they are so noob they think I'm actually pro.

 

For the oldies amongst us remember asking your mum and dad to play pong, space invaders or any PS1 game....they where so nooby it was beyond belief !

 

Be grateful to have these players as they are the ones who will get you a pools medal!



SaintMaddenus #47 Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:44 PM

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"For the oldies amongst us remember asking your mum and dad to play pong, space invaders or any PS1 game....they where so nooby it was beyond belief !":D

Oh god i'm turning into my dad...



kaneloon #48 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostSaintMaddenus, on 30 January 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

"For the oldies amongst us remember asking your mum and dad to play pong, space invaders or any PS1 game....they where so nooby it was beyond belief !":D

Oh god i'm turning into my dad...

 

I am not sure that age has so great an impact. It is more a question of interested or not, of having patience or not.

 

About people not learning : it has been proven that a brain needs repetition (hence the "battle"). So one will naturally repeat his errors.



Isharial #49 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:07 PM

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own fault issues are not excusable really... is it right you can play with 999 ping (and actually know that from many previous battles) and potentially take the fun away from the 14 other people on your team? those 14 other people have the right to play 15 vs 15 as well and not be a tank down before the fighting has even started....

 

disabilities and reaction times, well they're a little different but in any case, does that excuse 50 dpg guys at T10? at what point do we say "that's not good enough mate"? at what point does it go against the game rules? (ie the one about going against the game's design, which isn't sitting at the back not firing your gun)

old people are not inherently bad, nor are young people inherently good, so I don't think age has a huge effect

 

there comes a time where we have to set a level at which is acceptable and which is not. what that level is may be different in each persons eye's, but in the end, I think that generally, you have to *try* to play the game. the other day I saw a player with 12000 games in the FV215B and did 1 shots worth of damage.... for 12000 games, that's just not right nor should be accepted  (they had a 29% winrate). they were not trying, nor were they even playing, they sat in the base doing absolutely nothing until a light tank rammed them to death... (the light died and gave the FV 200 damage, its only damage.....)

funnily enough the FV was talking.. calling everyone noobs and to get the C word... sigh...

 

if I was *that* bad, id have found a new game to play, one that actually gave some fun.  I cant see the fun in playing a tank game where the goal is to shoot the enemy and win, when I do neither and fail? to blame your own team as well is just the height of ignorance and stupidity

 

if people like the FV, even if they were seriously impaired, actually tried to do their job in battle (ie left the base and shot stuff), people wouldn't be half as annoyed with them. toxicity then, is as much in the hands of the bad player as it is in the good



ThinGun #50 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

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View Postxtrem3x, on 30 January 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

 

 

There is the human factor:

  • Lack of skill in using gun, terrain, armor
  • Lack of knowledge about positions, concealment

 

After doing the same thing 20,000 - 30,000 times you would think they would learn these things..?

When I recruit somebody at work they get 2 weeks training... Imagine an employee not understanding something after doing it 30,000 times

 

It boggles my mind :amazed:

 

And THAT, in a nutshell, is the problem.  Skills that are easy for YOU to acquire might (quite literally) be impossible from someone else.  

 

For example ... I am highly skilled in my current profession which requires logic, analysis and process oriented thinking.  However, I still can't work out how to use a washing machine.  I can program a POS printer to reproduce logos to pixel perfection, but can't work out whether my shirt is Easy Care or Heavy Soil.   My partner isn't boggled - she just accepts that it's something I can't do.

 

Acceptance of others' limitations is a great step towards maturity.



Element6 #51 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:27 PM

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View PostThinGun, on 30 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

And THAT, in a nutshell, is the problem.  Skills that are easy for YOU to acquire might (quite literally) be impossible from someone else.  

 

For example ... I am highly skilled in my current profession which requires logic, analysis and process oriented thinking.  However, I still can't work out how to use a washing machine.  I can program a POS printer to reproduce logos to pixel perfection, but can't work out whether my shirt is Easy Care or Heavy Soil.   My partner isn't boggled - she just accepts that it's something I can't do.

 

Acceptance of others' limitations is a great step towards maturity.

Yeh, in general we all have one or two things we excel at, and then we are quite crap at most other things. The idea that most other people should be able to obtain a certain level of skill in WoT is rather delusional.



Leepants #52 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:29 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 30 January 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think we all do that.

I certainly do.  Then I try going somewhere different and do less well because I don't play that position often.

 

This is where watching others, be it after death in battle,  watching replays, streams, YouTube videos etc is often recommended, as it  provides an opportunity for you to observe a position and how it should be played, via another player's experience, instead of having to try and learn it from scratch. 

 

I'd go so far as to suggest that there is some level of skill in this too, as to identify why they make the decisions they do is really the most key.

Once you know what caused them to make that choice,  you can recognise similar events in your own battles and react more effectively. 

 

My best battles are the ones where I don't just go to my usual positions, but react more effectively to the flow of the battle. 

My first statement about my going somewhere new and fail to do well? That's usually because I'm not reading the battle effectively. 

 

When I do have good games where I am reading the battle well,  I get less bogged down in the specific tactics and features of a map location. I will just resort to doing the basics well and having good games because of that.

 

On the face of it, this can appear boring:

http://wotreplays.eu...a-baldrickk-t67 my most recent replay upload is a good example of this. 

I don't do anything spectacular. My tank isn't pimped out, I have a rammer, binocs and net, and a green crew with about 50% camo skill.

 

Watching the battle,  you'll see that I essentially move to three different locations, and each one is because of where I think allies and enemies will be.

 

You can watch the replay and just go "oh he just sat in a bush and got to shoot people"

If you can watch it and think about "Why that bush" then there is an opportunity to learn. 

 

For this reason,  I recommend Zeven on YouTube. 

Watch through some of his replay analysis videos,  he does a good job of saying what would have been effective moves, but more importantly,  why. 

 

Aye, I do watch a couple of YouTubers and at the moment I have time as I'm off work (had a heart attack on 22nd December) so I should get amongst replays etc. more. 

I understand what you're saying about "why that particular location" and I'm FAR better at using the minimap than I was (ironically, my winrate etc has suffered for it, but I suspect that's due to me playing higher tiers) and then relocating. I do tend to camp a location, though, forgetting tenkz actually move! lol

 

I think I looked at Zeven (very briefly, I admit) and thought he didn't do english commentary.... Clearly I need to go look again! EDIT:- Seems I did watch a couple of his videos! 

 

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand thanks to everyone else who has pitched in with advice - appreciated! :medal:


Edited by Leepants, 30 January 2019 - 02:31 PM.


Kartoshkaya #53 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:39 PM

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When they're all camping at redline I assume they're all 'she' and that's more than enough to justify why they are bad.

Evilier_than_Skeletor #54 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:53 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 30 January 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

When they're all camping at redline I assume they're all 'she' and that's more than enough to justify why they are bad.

Greetings, caveman. Seems the main issue here is not redline camping, but that you were born atleast a 100 years too late. :facepalm:



Dillstrom #55 Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

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Most bad players are bad because they don't even try to be good. They camp at the base, waiting for the team to win or lose, no matter which tank they are driving. Then some are bad because they can't read the minimap. Even after 25 000 or 75 000 battles, they either don't see enemies crushing one flank and going for our base or they don't care, but in either case they drive to a secure location on the side and camp there for the rest of the battle. The worst of the bad players first camp in the base, as if they intended to defend it, but when the first enemy comes, they run to a location where they can be useless.

 

Look at any bad player, what is common among them? Low average damage. Why can't they damage enemies? Because they don't even try. You don't learn hull-down or weakspots or using the terrain if you always sit in the base and your team either wins or the enemy kills your team and comes and surrounds you. They don't even try to move or learn, they just AFK in the base. WG should ban every 46% WR or worse for being AFK, because there is a difference between defending and camping. If someone doesn't play, why should it be in the battle? You don't get 46% winrate by playing and shooting the enemy, you get it by trying your best to be as useless as possible. And no, I'm not talking about new players.



Leepants #56 Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View PostDillstrom, on 30 January 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

Most bad players are bad because they don't even try to be good. They camp at the base, waiting for the team to win or lose, no matter which tank they are driving. Then some are bad because they can't read the minimap. Even after 25 000 or 75 000 battles, they either don't see enemies crushing one flank and going for our base or they don't care, but in either case they drive to a secure location on the side and camp there for the rest of the battle. The worst of the bad players first camp in the base, as if they intended to defend it, but when the first enemy comes, they run to a location where they can be useless.

 

Look at any bad player, what is common among them? Low average damage. Why can't they damage enemies? Because they don't even try. You don't learn hull-down or weakspots or using the terrain if you always sit in the base and your team either wins or the enemy kills your team and comes and surrounds you. They don't even try to move or learn, they just AFK in the base. WG should ban every 46% WR or worse for being AFK, because there is a difference between defending and camping. If someone doesn't play, why should it be in the battle? You don't get 46% winrate by playing and shooting the enemy, you get it by trying your best to be as useless as possible. And no, I'm not talking about new players.

 

My damage isn't great, but I do play a fair amount of LTs. 

Kartoshkaya #57 Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:12 PM

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View PostEvilier_than_Skeletor, on 30 January 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

Greetings, caveman. Seems the main issue here is not redline camping, but that you were born atleast a 100 years too late. :facepalm:

 

Are you crying ? You can cry. You must be pretty weak. Is your girlfriend taking the decisions home ? You have to ask her before going outside ? Oh... No... Do you wash the dishes ? 

 

Nice evolution.



arthurwellsley #58 Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:30 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 30 January 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

Call me old fashioned, but I've always seen this as a team game, and reflecting on how you contribute to the team is part of the game. 

 

Long_Range_Sniper old bean, you are old fashioned.

 

PS The honourable member for the nineteenth century (aka Jacob Rees-Mogg MP) would like a word about your appropriation of his domain.



Element6 #59 Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:33 PM

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View PostDillstrom, on 30 January 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

Most bad players are bad because they don't even try to be good. They camp at the base, waiting for the team to win or lose, no matter which tank they are driving. Then some are bad because they can't read the minimap. Even after 25 000 or 75 000 battles, they either don't see enemies crushing one flank and going for our base or they don't care, but in either case they drive to a secure location on the side and camp there for the rest of the battle. The worst of the bad players first camp in the base, as if they intended to defend it, but when the first enemy comes, they run to a location where they can be useless.

 

Look at any bad player, what is common among them? Low average damage. Why can't they damage enemies? Because they don't even try. You don't learn hull-down or weakspots or using the terrain if you always sit in the base and your team either wins or the enemy kills your team and comes and surrounds you. They don't even try to move or learn, they just AFK in the base. WG should ban every 46% WR or worse for being AFK, because there is a difference between defending and camping. If someone doesn't play, why should it be in the battle? You don't get 46% winrate by playing and shooting the enemy, you get it by trying your best to be as useless as possible. And no, I'm not talking about new players.

If most players tried to be good all the time this game would have far less 2k+ WN8 players than it currently has.



ThinGun #60 Posted 30 January 2019 - 03:37 PM

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View PostElement6, on 30 January 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

Yeh, in general we all have one or two things we excel at, and then we are quite crap at most other things. The idea that most other people should be able to obtain a certain level of skill in WoT is rather delusional.

 

The tragedy is, many people labour under this delusion claiming it as some sort of moral or intellectual high ground.





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