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Solstad1069 #1 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:35 AM

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Im so sick and tired of the matchmaker in this game. So all you geniuses at wargaming look at the picture and tell me how

to play with 212 pen on this map, where do i go to flank, because frontally im not gonna pen anything, unless you ask the enemy to stand still and let me find the pixel i can.

There is ONE enemy tier 8 medium on the enemy team, thats the best you can do? Is that what you call balance?

 

I can keep pushing battle over and over and this is what im gonna get 8 out of 10 battles, how much fun do you geniuses at wargaming think this is, to basicly roll over and die?

Thanks for removing the fun, gg c ya when the mm is changed. Im off for now.
 

Think i have played around 41500 battles, but the decline in fun since 3-5-7 just makes me sad.

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tajj7 #2 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:40 AM

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3-5-7 and the bad MM is IMO the biggest issue with the game right now and has been for the last year or more, it astounds me WG have not rectified this issue earlier.

 

I mean why can't the MM experiment on Asia be rolled out on the other servers as a temporary fix whilst they work on the long term solution. Asia players have said it is much improved. 



Captain_Kremen0 #3 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

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You do know theres a MM sticky thread?

we dont need another whine thread 



DracheimFlug #4 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:45 AM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 31 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Im so sick and tired of the matchmaker in this game. So all you geniuses at wargaming look at the picture and tell me how

to play with 212 pen on this map, where do i go to flank, because frontally im not gonna pen anything, unless you ask the enemy to stand still and let me find the pixel i can.

There is ONE enemy tier 8 medium on the enemy team, thats the best you can do? Is that what you call balance?

 

I can keep pushing battle over and over and this is what im gonna get 8 out of 10 battles, how much fun do you geniuses at wargaming think this is, to basicly roll over and die?

Thanks for removing the fun, gg c ya when the mm is changed. Im off for now.
 

Think i have played around 41500 battles, but the decline in fun since 3-5-7 just makes me sad.

 

You can't pen a Tiger II or even the Cent AX? (just to pick two obvious examples on the other team). 55% win rate, significantly better than mine, and you seem to think that the Progetto is the only thing you can pen?

undutchable80 #5 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:45 AM

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Save playing that tank for Frontlines?

Hellfoxe #6 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:50 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 January 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

3-5-7 and the bad MM is IMO the biggest issue with the game right now and has been for the last year or more, it astounds me WG have not rectified this issue earlier.

 

I mean why can't the MM experiment on Asia be rolled out on the other servers as a temporary fix whilst they work on the long term solution. Asia players have said it is much improved. 

 

Asian people are thinking on the smart way by learning the mistakes and not making the same mistake. It seems EU are failure by not learning they mistakes and keep the same way again and again. Asian wg are "we must keep our customers happy" and EU is more different way we must empty they our customers pocket in every different way.

Edited by Hellfoxe, 31 January 2019 - 10:51 AM.


Solstad1069 #7 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:52 AM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 31 January 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

 

You can't pen a Tiger II or even the Cent AX? (just to pick two obvious examples on the other team). 55% win rate, significantly better than mine, and you seem to think that the Progetto is the only thing you can pen?

 

Like on many other maps, Mannerheim forces you to go 2 ways, upper or lower. The middle part is basicly closed the first 5 minutes unless you want an early death.

And i cant show my face anywhere, the game forces you to a passive role. It forces you to hang back and wait and hope the enemy does mistakes and show me their sides.

Funny you should mention the Tiger II, i dinged the side of his slightly angled turret twice. But of course we could ask him to turn 90 degrees so i can be useful.


Edited by Solstad1069, 31 January 2019 - 10:56 AM.


DracheimFlug #8 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 31 January 2019 - 10:52 AM, said:

 

Like on many other maps, Mannerheim forces you to go 2 ways, upper or lower. The middle part is basicly closed the first 5 minutes unless you want an early death.

And i cant show my face anywhere, the game forces you to a passive role. It forces you to hang back and wait and hope the enemy does mistakes and show me their sides.

Funny you should mention the Tiger II, i dinged the side of his slightly angled turret twice. But of course we could ask him to turn 90 degrees so i can be useful.

 

Were you North or South spawn? South has more options, IMO. Better players than I (including you) can correct me if I am wrong, but as a medium I would likely go upper in both cases. You are a lot less likely to face heavies or heavily armoured TDs on the upper, northern part of the map since they favour the much tighter corridor of the south.

tajj7 #9 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:08 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 31 January 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

You do know theres a MM sticky thread?

we dont need another whine thread 

 

To be fair the MM thread is almost always full of people whinging about rigged MM, which completely drowns out the more legitimate matchmaking threads. 

 

There should be two pinned MM threads, one for complaining about like 3-5-7, tank balance etc. and one for the tin foil hat brigade to make stupid claims about the game being rigged. 



Solstad1069 #10 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:14 AM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 31 January 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

 

Were you North or South spawn? South has more options, IMO. Better players than I (including you) can correct me if I am wrong, but as a medium I would likely go upper in both cases. You are a lot less likely to face heavies or heavily armoured TDs on the upper, northern part of the map since they favour the much tighter corridor of the south.

 

I hear you and i agree with you, but the main issue here is me being balanced against ONE enemy tier 8 medium and the fact that Paris with the same setup would most likely be next.

Its the repetition of bad experiences that finally gets you. The feeling of being useless fighting superior enemies over and over. The old mm would give you all kind of strange and sometimes unbalances battles, but then you could press battle again and you got to on top.


Edited by Solstad1069, 31 January 2019 - 11:15 AM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #11 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:16 AM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 31 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

Im so sick and tired of the matchmaker in this game. So all you geniuses at wargaming look at the picture and tell me how

to play with 212 pen on this map, where do i go to flank, because frontally im not gonna pen anything, unless you ask the enemy to stand still and let me find the pixel i can.

There is ONE enemy tier 8 medium on the enemy team, thats the best you can do? Is that what you call balance?

 

I can keep pushing battle over and over and this is what im gonna get 8 out of 10 battles, how much fun do you geniuses at wargaming think this is, to basicly roll over and die?

Thanks for removing the fun, gg c ya when the mm is changed. Im off for now.
 

Think i have played around 41500 battles, but the decline in fun since 3-5-7 just makes me sad.

If you feel you can't do anything, try tracking the enemies so your TDs can rek them.

At least you'll be farming assist that way.



tajj7 #12 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:31 AM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 31 January 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

Its the repetition of bad experiences that finally gets you. .

 

I agree it can get demoralising playing any sort of paper med, light or lightly armoured TD in tiers below 9, you seem to just go from game to game of bottom tier, in a city or corridor map, often against 2-3 arty. 

 

I try to avoid playing below 9 as much as possible these days and if I do try to play it in platoon which makes it a bit more bearable. 

 

Luckily I don't have any tier 8s to grind or much desperate need for credits at the moment after the Xmas bonuses meant I have bought most of the tanks I want, so I am just doing missions usually in tier 9 tanks. 



Solstad1069 #13 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 31 January 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

If you feel you can't do anything, try tracking the enemies so your TDs can rek them.

At least you'll be farming assist that way.

 

Agree, but i cant keep on doing that 8 out of 10 battles, trying to track for others. I want to see tier 6 tanks and pen every shot and finally end up on top of the XP list.
I like to win battles, i like to carry battles, but the game just keeps kicking you in the face with its retarded matchmaker. All you can hope for is a track shot or some spots?

Ceeb #14 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:35 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 January 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

3-5-7 and the bad MM is IMO the biggest issue with the game right now and has been for the last year or more, it astounds me WG have not rectified this issue earlier.

 

I mean why can't the MM experiment on Asia be rolled out on the other servers as a temporary fix whilst they work on the long term solution. Asia players have said it is much improved. 

 

I dont think they have enough data :hiding:

kisli #15 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:44 AM

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How could the fact that WG sees only short term profit possibly astound you?

Solstad1069 #16 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:47 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 January 2019 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

I agree it can get demoralising playing any sort of paper med, light or lightly armoured TD in tiers below 9, you seem to just go from game to game of bottom tier, in a city or corridor map, often against 2-3 arty. 

 

I try to avoid playing below 9 as much as possible these days and if I do try to play it in platoon which makes it a bit more bearable. 

 

Luckily I don't have any tier 8s to grind or much desperate need for credits at the moment after the Xmas bonuses meant I have bought most of the tanks I want, so I am just doing missions usually in tier 9 tanks. 

 

Nice to see you back Tajj7 :P

Tier 9 and 10 is a bit over my "skillset", tier 6-8 used to be the place i could shine, but not so much anymore :(
Normally a play session ends with me playing M53/M55, because it always works when you had it with tanks. You know, ruin someones game.

10:51 Added after 3 minutes

View Postundutchable80, on 31 January 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Save playing that tank for Frontlines?

 

Ye i know, but sadly i never liked Fronline. It ended up being "just" a tankshooter and never gave you the feeling of carrying your team to a victory like random could.

kubawt112 #17 Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:33 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 January 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

3-5-7 and the bad MM is IMO the biggest issue with the game right now and has been for the last year or more, it astounds me WG have not rectified this issue earlier.

 

I mean why can't the MM experiment on Asia be rolled out on the other servers as a temporary fix whilst they work on the long term solution. Asia players have said it is much improved. 

 

The Asia changes are obviously made because they know there are issues. Just like they knew there were issues from the get-go, else they wouldn't be tweaking the 3-5-7 concept so heavily after its introduction. I believe that their creative director stated that almost all (major) patches the year following 9.18 (up until February 2018 or so) had some kind of fix to the matchmaker. That seems to be true. Of course it's a good thing that they're fixing it up, but I do find it peculiar that it wasn't common pre-9.18.

9.18 brought 3-5-7.

9.19 changed pattern distribution.

9.19.1 tweaked the tolerance for class mismatches.

9.20 introduced grand battles; arguably a tweak to lessen the burden on T8/9.

9.20.1 had the subclass system, changes to platoon MM, tweaking the MM for SPGs/TDs (too many single-/two-tier battles) and increasing the chance of getting a GB.

9.21 had no announced changes, but was primarily a 'cosmetic' patch.

9.22 tweaked the mode distribution (standard, encounter, assault, GBs).

1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 did not feature any changes to the MM; worth nothing that the latter two were released in August and late-September (and 1.0 was the Core release).  Perhaps things were working ideally at that point, though Asia MM testing started mid-November and there were planned PMM changes mid-2018.

 

 

Anyway, I doubt they are gathering data. Remember: 9.18 introduced 3-5-7 April 17th . 9.19 followed one and half month later, May 31st; bringing tweaks to how common single- and two-tier battles were. It suggests they didn't gather data from the live server, didn't need to, or that gathering data takes less time than we're led to think.

We do know that Wargaming have the means to 'dry-run' the matchmaker - using the 'live' data to make pretend matches and figuring out the consequences of performing changes. There is hence no good reason to implement changes for testing, unless they're known to be needed.

Best guess is too many bottom-tier matches, or an express measure to recoup lost players (if they believed players left due to the MM). Alternatively that they need to figure out player experience. Easier/flatter matchmaking is definitely not in the interest of Wargaming, nor is it likely to be in the interest of someone who may need the massive advantage of a top-tier 3-5-7 game to get a decent result (though if asked, he'd likely prefer a flatter matchmaking still).

Of course, not everyone dislikes 3-5-7, even outside of those who simply don't care. Judging from the Asia test and their insistence on suddenly announcing their plans it's however clear that the majority dislikes 3-5-7, or is at the very least getting affected by it. The subjective opinion of 3-5-7 is likely what Wargaming wouldn't be able to measure with a few weeks of data gathering and analysis, though I find it amusing that certain forumites have been complaining about the 9.19 changes over 18 months before they announce plans to reduce the amount of three-tier battles and implement changes to the distribution of slots in each three-tier match.

 

Certain things about WoT are great, but I get the feeling of Wargaming riding customers until the breaking point.

 

 

 

11:37 Added after 4 minutes

View Postkisli, on 31 January 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

How could the fact that WG sees only short term profit possibly astound you?

 

Well, they have been going for quite a while. If they are indeed losing players, it makes a lot of sense to squeeze the playerbase for what they can. If they have scared off all 'unicums', it makes little sense to spend time making changes that they'd like (unless the impact on the rest of the playerbase was minimal).



Lycopersicon #18 Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:40 PM

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What is the Asian experiment you are talking about?

 

Yeah, off-topic, me shorri.



DracheimFlug #19 Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:41 PM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 31 January 2019 - 11:14 AM, said:

 

I hear you and i agree with you, but the main issue here is me being balanced against ONE enemy tier 8 medium and the fact that Paris with the same setup would most likely be next.

Its the repetition of bad experiences that finally gets you. The feeling of being useless fighting superior enemies over and over. The old mm would give you all kind of strange and sometimes unbalances battles, but then you could press battle again and you got to on top.

 

Dunno.... again I am not as good a player as you, but I do not think of it as being balanced against any given tank or tanks on the other team, but rather simply 'This is the situation, what can I do here?' And then simply try to do my best with the situation at hand. Yes it gets frustrating at times, but I find the tactics (or lack of coherent tactics) of the rest of the team far more frustrating than 3-5-7 or what specific enemy tanks I face. 

 

And I also feel that map design is also a far bigger issue (more corridors, less actual maneuver and concealment). 



SABAOTH #20 Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:43 PM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 31 January 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

You do know theres a MM sticky thread?

we dont need another whine thread 

 

I miss downrating on the forums :coin:




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