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So it has been months since you acknowledged your MM is garbage


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HelpIamClaustrophobic #1 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:37 PM

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It has been months ago that you finally admitted to us (your customers) that one of the most important part of a game like this: the Matchmaking. You asked us for patience as it would take some time. Then just before Christmas (the time when you want us to spend a lot of cash) you publish an article with the things you are going to do about it in 2019 (the whole year). Few templates, tweaks but nothing close to a permanent fix. That is all talk but where is the action? When are you going to change anything and what? Or did you count all the cash you made by the loot gamble boxes and try to keep the community quiet by empty promises and lies for another year before we are ready to be milked again? Grow some balls and go to -1/+1 MM because next needed change is balance if you want this game to last another year.

 

I know you think that Frontline will keep uis happy and quiet. But I wonder if people still enjoy it like last year. You proved willing to destroy your game quality for a few bucks (introducing IS3A and Defenders) so That will automatically influence the Frontline game mode as well. Second aspect will be the Mario Karts. Who in the hell thought it was a god idea to introduce new meganics in a broken game. In the normal world people would first fix their core issues before throwing in all kind of new stuff. It is asking for disaster. I imagine Frontline first few weeks will be Mario Karts driving like maniacs all over the place. Bringing tanks with slow shell velocity will be close to useless. And believe me. I hope it doesn't because I love Frontline.

 

You probably think this game will die slowly and want to drain as much money as possible. But that is not the way it works. In these kind of games lots of people only play because they invested a lot, habit and community and clans. First players will leave but then clans will collaps and then it goes fast. I for one will not be here when bots will be introduced. I am getting more anoyed and bored with the game by the minute. And quit session earlier and earlier. So my time will come fast. But I am sure I am not the only one. There is so much lies and promises people can take. Take a look in your data how many games 4-5 have 0 damage in games. People are giving up. Who wants to see the loading screen of the 5th match after 4 bottom tiers and see yet again bottom tier. It is not fun. I am probably not alone in saying that the majority of the games are not fun and you have the urge not to play them at all. Which is happening now by people not playing them (suicide, parking the tank or desert) and that will going to happen more and more. 

 

Be warned. I hope (we know better) that you will finally realise something major needs to be done. Look at the change of your YouTube community. Your fans are turning against you fast.

 

 



SABAOTH #2 Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:43 PM

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They have been working on it as fast as they can

 



kubawt112 #3 Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:22 PM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 31 January 2019 - 10:37 PM, said:

(...)

Be warned. I hope (we know better) that you will finally realise something major needs to be done. Look at the change of your YouTube community. Your fans are turning against you fast.

 

I'm sure Wargaming are very happy with what they have achieved, but are very busy figuring out if they actually dare make changes following the post-9.18 trends. They know something needs to be done, else they wouldn't bother to brush up the forum staff interaction, announce their 2019 plans or generally try to be less Wargamey (yes, that is now a term).

 

Anyway, what has changed in the Youtube community?



TankkiPoju #4 Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:15 AM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 31 January 2019 - 10:37 PM, said:

 It is asking for disaster. 

 

It's so funny when a word becomes a meme... everything will be a "disaster" for the next few weeks :)

 

Defender was already in the game in last Frontlines iteration, so was IS3A actually... not the current version though.

 

 

 



Jauhesammutin #5 Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:16 AM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 31 January 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

It has been months ago that you finally admitted to us (your customers) that one of the most important part of a game like this: the Matchmaking. You asked us for patience as it would take some time. Then just before Christmas (the time when you want us to spend a lot of cash) you publish an article with the things you are going to do about it in 2019 (the whole year). Few templates, tweaks but nothing close to a permanent fix. That is all talk but where is the action? When are you going to change anything and what? Or did you count all the cash you made by the loot gamble boxes and try to keep the community quiet by empty promises and lies for another year before we are ready to be milked again? Grow some balls and go to -1/+1 MM because next needed change is balance if you want this game to last another year.

 

I know you think that Frontline will keep uis happy and quiet. But I wonder if people still enjoy it like last year. You proved willing to destroy your game quality for a few bucks (introducing IS3A and Defenders) so That will automatically influence the Frontline game mode as well. Second aspect will be the Mario Karts. Who in the hell thought it was a god idea to introduce new meganics in a broken game. In the normal world people would first fix their core issues before throwing in all kind of new stuff. It is asking for disaster. I imagine Frontline first few weeks will be Mario Karts driving like maniacs all over the place. Bringing tanks with slow shell velocity will be close to useless. And believe me. I hope it doesn't because I love Frontline.

 

You probably think this game will die slowly and want to drain as much money as possible. But that is not the way it works. In these kind of games lots of people only play because they invested a lot, habit and community and clans. First players will leave but then clans will collaps and then it goes fast. I for one will not be here when bots will be introduced. I am getting more anoyed and bored with the game by the minute. And quit session earlier and earlier. So my time will come fast. But I am sure I am not the only one. There is so much lies and promises people can take. Take a look in your data how many games 4-5 have 0 damage in games. People are giving up. Who wants to see the loading screen of the 5th match after 4 bottom tiers and see yet again bottom tier. It is not fun. I am probably not alone in saying that the majority of the games are not fun and you have the urge not to play them at all. Which is happening now by people not playing them (suicide, parking the tank or desert) and that will going to happen more and more. 

 

Be warned. I hope (we know better) that you will finally realise something major needs to be done. Look at the change of your YouTube community. Your fans are turning against you fast.

 

 

 

It's the start of February and you want what they planned for the whole year of 2019 to come up now? They could implement it during the next Christmas and it would be according to their time schedule.

 

What is a permanent fix if the template fix isn't? If every single tank would be equally balanced and if you would see only equally balanced tanks in the battle this game would become immensely boring.

 

Both of defender and IS-3A were in the Frontlines last time. Was it a complete failure? I don't think so.

 

So in a normal world Wargaming should fire all the employees who are working for new tanks, new maps, new gamemodes and improvements to the game engine so that the one team which focuses on balance can fix their "core issues" (you haven't even told what those "core issues" are). Wargaming isn't a little company in someones garage. Do you even know how companies work in "normal world"? I don't like the wheeled vehicles either, but that's because they feel bad.

 

How many modern games similar to WoT have died fast? WoT isn't going to die fast. There are still so many active players playing. People who have invested money and time to the game won't just quit because they see a bottom tier game in a stock tank. 

 

4-5 0 dmg players per match aren't giving up. They just simply suck. You can almost always (rare ammoracks happen) do damage. Shoot HE if you can't pen with gold.

 

You start your topic by talking about the major changes Wargaming has planned for this year and then you end your topic by warning Wargaming that they should do major changes. Make up your mind, will you?

 

 



the_Haba #6 Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:32 AM

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Please don't bully Wargaming, they are trying their best.

 

This 1,5 billion dollar business is barely keeping them afloat, the guys who are doing the extremely complicated MM template changes are forced to take second jobs in cleaning or at the local McDonalds as WG is paying them with potatoes.

 

For a realistic implementation time-line, refer to Havoc in WoT.



Element6 #7 Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:50 AM

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Why does every muppet jump to the conclusion that WG is either drunk, beyond stupid or afraid when they don't do what the muppet wants? Reality is never this simple.

 

When you look at something, and don't understand it, and the only conclusion you can reach is that this something is done because someone is unintelligent, then it's time to take a step back and think; Is it possible that I do not see the entire picture, am I missing some vital piece of information?

 

When a scientist looks at something he doesn't understand, he never reach the conclusion that it is because of magic, he acknowledges that the reason he doesn't understand it is because he doesn't have enough information. Some parts of the WoT community are like a scientist that tries to boil water and expect it to boil at 80 degrees Celsius, and when it doesn't boil at that temperature he jumps to the conclusion that it is because of aliens, because the water should boil at 80, because he thinks so. The real reason it doesn't boil is due to the pressure of the atmosphere.

 

WG doesn't change the MM immediately because there are other factors at work that they need to take into consideration, that is the logical and sane conclusion to arrive at, not that they are stupid.

 

You don't manage to create a game that in EU alone have people sign up with 21+ million accounts, if you are stupid.



Homer_J #8 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:44 AM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 31 January 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

 Grow some balls and go to -1/+1 MM

 

 

What?  That's the wimps way out.  And it won't solve anything.  They should man up and put the old +5/-2 back and get rid of templates.

 

I wrote it on teh internet so it must be right.



Wintermute_1 #9 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:23 AM

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View PostHelpIamClaustrophobic, on 31 January 2019 - 10:37 PM, said:

Grow some balls and go to -1/+1 MM because next needed change is balance if you want this game to last another year.

 

And what do they about all the Pref MM tanks that paid money for that MM? They already tried 'inventing' a reason to remove Pref MM, it didn't work and they had to row back. 

 

Although ultimately I'm sure they'll manage to wangle it by introducing a high occurance of the 10/5 and single tiered templates with 3/5/7 popping up once in a blue moon. Officially still +2/-2 but effectively +1/-1.

 

Then you'll have all the pref MM tank owners complaining, but screw em', they've already spent their money.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:37 AM

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View PostWintermute_1, on 01 February 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

 

And what do they about all the Pref MM tanks that paid money for that MM? They already tried 'inventing' a reason to remove Pref MM, it didn't work and they had to row back. 

 

Although ultimately I'm sure they'll manage to wangle it by introducing a high occurrence of the 10/5 and single tiered templates with 3/5/7 popping up once in a blue moon. Officially still +2/-2 but effectively +1/-1.

 

Then you'll have all the pref MM tank owners complaining, but screw em', they've already spent their money.

 

I do have some of those tanks but i don't understand the complain? I paid to have a +1 MM in a certain tank not for others to have constant +2. My tank still doesn't see +2 MM and getting some buffs every now and then, what's the problem with that?

 

Lights used to have a harsher MM but they changed that and kept the premium lights as they were. Arty now have stun and no AP shells, premium arty still the same!

 

Power creep on the other hand is an issue, tanks like the CDC, IS-6, Jagdtiger 8.8, etc. needs some attention to the benefit of everyone. Should i complain then about my SP when they eventually buff the IS-6 or give it a better MM template?



kaneloon #11 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:48 AM

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I would hate to have a +1 -1 MM, it would be boring as hell.

I don't play wot to trample enemies, I play for the challenge to win. To remove a +2 tiers tank is always a nice feeling - they are only 3, often including a scout and an arty ...


Edited by kaneloon, 01 February 2019 - 10:51 AM.


Frostilicus #12 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:49 AM

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I don't think they acknowledged it to be "garbage" but don't let that stop you creating a headline by any means :)

DeadLecter #13 Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:06 AM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 01 February 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 

It's the start of February and you want what they planned for the whole year of 2019 to come up now? They could implement it during the next Christmas and it would be according to their time schedule.

 

What is a permanent fix if the template fix isn't? If every single tank would be equally balanced and if you would see only equally balanced tanks in the battle this game would become immensely boring.

 

Both of defender and IS-3A were in the Frontlines last time. Was it a complete failure? I don't think so.

 

So in a normal world Wargaming should fire all the employees who are working for new tanks, new maps, new gamemodes and improvements to the game engine so that the one team which focuses on balance can fix their "core issues" (you haven't even told what those "core issues" are). Wargaming isn't a little company in someones garage. Do you even know how companies work in "normal world"? I don't like the wheeled vehicles either, but that's because they feel bad.

 

How many modern games similar to WoT have died fast? WoT isn't going to die fast. There are still so many active players playing. People who have invested money and time to the game won't just quit because they see a bottom tier game in a stock tank. 

 

4-5 0 dmg players per match aren't giving up. They just simply suck. You can almost always (rare ammoracks happen) do damage. Shoot HE if you can't pen with gold.

 

You start your topic by talking about the major changes Wargaming has planned for this year and then you end your topic by warning Wargaming that they should do major changes. Make up your mind, will you?

 

 

 

Last time not everyone had a Defender and neither did IS-3A have a reverse autoreloader. You don't see them in randoms a lot anymore because as good as they are, they are bad in 2+ MM. When we get full T8 MM, everyone will take out their Defenders, IS-3A and Mutants which is immune to any standard ammo.

ApocalypseSquad #14 Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 01 February 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

I would hate to have a +1 -1 MM, it would be boring as hell.

I don't play wot to trample enemies, I play for the challenge to win. To remove a +2 tiers tank is always a nice feeling - they are only 3, often including a scout and an arty ...

 

Exactly what this guy said.  I really don't understand the issues people have with MM.  It's pretty rare that I am in a game and I can't find something useful to do, whatever the tier difference.  And when it does happen that is usually more class/map related than down to tier differentials...

tajj7 #15 Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View PostApocalypseSquad, on 01 February 2019 - 10:12 AM, said:

 

Exactly what this guy said.  I really don't understand the issues people have with MM.  It's pretty rare that I am in a game and I can't find something useful to do, whatever the tier difference.  And when it does happen that is usually more class/map related than down to tier differentials...

 

Probably because people like to fight on an even footing, not be handicapped from the get go, which is what you are when you are -2.

 

Being -2 means often you don't lose games because your or your team has played badly, but just because the players you have face have much superior tanks.

 

The template system then ensures you are -2 for the majority of the game you play and it's just not fun IMO, I want to beat people because I outplay and out think them, if you are constantly in a sub par vehicle because you are constantly bottom tier that becomes almost impossible to do in most cases. 

 

I have never really understood the 'boring' or 'lacking variety' argument against going to -1/+1 when we have so many tank lines, which means the combinations between the two tiers is almost infinite. 

 

What destroys variety is bad balance, I see plenty of different tanks in all tier 9 games because tier 9 balance is good, lots of viable vehicles there to play, not much is OP, broken or so terrible its pointless. There are actually more tier 10 tanks than tier 9, but you see less variety on tier 10 because the balance is bad on tier 10 and you see the same tanks over and over because only 5-6 are really competitive.

 

-1/+1 would IMO be a great change for the game and most players, it would certainly make my games more enjoyable, but it's probably not great for WG's bank balance because being -2 drives players up the tech trees and thus they spend money to do it faster. 



Kartoshkaya #16 Posted 01 February 2019 - 12:45 PM

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Lol, get back to reality, give them 8-9 months

kubawt112 #17 Posted 01 February 2019 - 01:15 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 01 February 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

 

(...)

 

On the flip side, consider that a 'casual', less competitive, player would logically be interested in playing a game that gives him an occasional advantage - of course provided he has any kind of interest in winning or doing well. I suppose almost everyone is aware that elements not found between the keyboard and chair affect (per-match) results, but opt to ignore them. Even the top 5-10% players are essentially forced to, lest they start questioning if their performance, and hence enjoyment of the game, is a result of chance or equipment.

 

As for variation, it's a nice way of obfuscating issues, including those concerning individual players. A game designed to be, well, a game is not particularly in need for that. Look at the Counter-Strike (1.6, Source) - an undeniably hugely popular game that just-so-happens to be quite competitive and feature minimal variety. Case in point was how wildly unpopular the dynamic weapon pricing was - since all the most popular weapon prices spiked. Furthermore, there are tons of (official) maps in C-S, but the most common server rotation seems to be for a dozen or so maps, with five-six of them being semi-common as single-map servers (some of which had basically a constant clientele, almost like the 'Forumites' channel).

 

I bet Wargaming spends a lot of time figuring out what might lead to the least amount of butthurt. It would honestly be foolish to revamp the entire game to be more competitive; instead it's more likely to see that applied to alternate game modes (at least to a certain extent; it's not like RNG is removed/reduced even in WoT eSports).
A consequence of that would of course be less players in random battles - in which -2/+2 would likely stay to ensure swift matchmaking. Doubt we could, or even should, have both. I guess having the choice would be the closest to making everyone happy - whether you prefer fighting on even footing or giving one or the other a gun instead of a sword.



Wintermute_1 #18 Posted 01 February 2019 - 01:33 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 February 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

I do have some of those tanks but i don't understand the complain? I paid to have a +1 MM in a certain tank not for others to have constant +2. My tank still doesn't see +2 MM and getting some buffs every now and then, what's the problem with that?

 

Lights used to have a harsher MM but they changed that and kept the premium lights as they were. Arty now have stun and no AP shells, premium arty still the same!

 

Power creep on the other hand is an issue, tanks like the CDC, IS-6, Jagdtiger 8.8, etc. needs some attention to the benefit of everyone. Should i complain then about my SP when they eventually buff the IS-6 or give it a better MM template?

 

The issue isnt of any great concern to me personally as the only Pref MM tank I have is the 112 and that has such low pen its pretty much hopeless against 70% of heavies of its own tier let alone tier 9. Pretty good for bounce PMs though.

As to the wider pref MM issue. I think its a bit off to use Pref MM as a tank selling point, take peoples money, then make +1/-1 standard at some later date. Its like paying for optimal extras on a car then a year later all those extras get included in the standard price, its going to feel like you wasted your money. On top of that +1/-1 across the board pulls far more OP tier 8s like the Defender into your games as they no longer get pulled by the '3/5/7 truckload' into tier X games effectively nerfing the pref MM tanks.

Overall I'd prefer +1/-1 MM but I think pref MM tanks are a real obstacle standing in the way of it.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #19 Posted 01 February 2019 - 01:49 PM

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View PostWintermute_1, on 01 February 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

The issue isnt of any great concern to me personally as the only Pref MM tank I have is the 112 and that has such low pen its pretty much hopeless against 70% of heavies of its own tier let alone tier 9. Pretty good for bounce PMs though.

As to the wider pref MM issue. I think its a bit off to use Pref MM as a tank selling point, take peoples money, then make +1/-1 standard at some later date. Its like paying for optimal extras on a car then a year later all those extras get included in the standard price, its going to feel like you wasted your money. On top of that +1/-1 across the board pulls far more OP tier 8s like the Defender into your games as they no longer get pulled by the '3/5/7 truckload' into tier X games effectively nerfing the pref MM tanks.

Overall I'd prefer +1/-1 MM but I think pref MM tanks are a real obstacle standing in the way of it.

 

But i already enjoyed those extras of a whole year and still will never see a tier 10 tank whatever they do with the MM. From another POV, if i had 2-3 pref MM tier 8 tanks and 20-30 regular MM tanks. I wouldn't mind getting +1 MM as a standard for all of them so i  get more out of the game and out of my time. Yes i did pay for the +1 MM in those tanks but i didn't pay for others to be stuck in +2 and i will still have what i paid for if the MM standard changes.

 

Also facing defenders or any other strong tier 8s more is not harder than facing type 4s, 430s or any other tier 9 tanks that i already see in +1 MM. That's a balance problem not a tier spread issue.



Zoggo_ #20 Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:07 PM

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https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/preferential-matchmaking-fixes/

Post from 26th July 2018

 

"As you can understand, to find the optimal solution will take some time (about half a year) and we ask for your patience. We have already laid down a plan and work on the matchmaker is underway." 

 

WG actually changed this line, it used to say (up to 6 months).

 

I understand the devs needs to make the MM work as well as possible but c'mon. They work at a glacial pace coming up with excuses like we are still collecting data or patronising us in Q&A's with it's complicated. I can't think of any other MMO which works so slowly to fix obviously broken gameplay.

 

3/5/7 has been a complete mess especially for tier 6 and 8 and pity anyone who wants to platoon. It's one of the major reasons the players numbers are dropping yet WG continue to gloss over fixing core broken gameplay mechanics with 1.0 graphics, frontline and gimmicks like wheeled vechicles.

 

 "We ask for your patience" This should have been fixed 18 months ago about the time my patience ran out. All I want is fair MM and to be top/middle/bottom tier evenly in any tier. 






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