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Wheeled Vehicles: Take Them for a Spin!


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eekeeboo #141 Posted 14 February 2019 - 07:52 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 14 February 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

Are you in advertising? Serious question. You don't discuss, you (try to) spin. 

 

Straight question: How do you know how many people would choose to tick the realism box? 

 

  No I don't, do you know why? There's literally no point in doing it. Look at how many "realistic" tank games there have been, look how many succeed, look at how many arcade take games there have been, look at how many succeed. It's not about spinning it's about a fruitless and pointless standpoint. You do not make a game to be like other games already on the market that's how you make a failed game. 

Saar_Lion #142 Posted 16 February 2019 - 08:23 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 14 February 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

  No I don't, do you know why? There's literally no point in doing it. 

 

So you don't know if there's any point in offering players a choice, but there's no point in finding out...

 

Not sure if I'm seeing a pattern here or not, so help me out: Is this the same logic behind the fiasco that is "Wheeled Vehicles" ?

 



eekeeboo #143 Posted 18 February 2019 - 01:29 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 16 February 2019 - 07:23 AM, said:

 

So you don't know if there's any point in offering players a choice, but there's no point in finding out...

 

Not sure if I'm seeing a pattern here or not, so help me out: Is this the same logic behind the fiasco that is "Wheeled Vehicles" ?

 

 

You are not reading anything I'm typing. Can you please do so before making your next reply. 

Saar_Lion #144 Posted 19 February 2019 - 07:24 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 18 February 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

 

You are not reading anything I'm typing. Can you please do so before making your next reply. 

 

I am reading what you're writing - I based my question on a direct quote from you

 

You claimed "There's literally no point" in offering players a choice between "Arcade" or "More realistic" modes.

 

You made that claim, nobody forced you into it.

 

Evidence is not "your opinion" - it's evidence. So post the evidence to back up what you claimed.



ToodlePips #145 Posted 20 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

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I had a lot of time on my hand today, so I decided to push the grind of the wheeled tanks line. I don't know how to say this without swearing: I hate playing wheeled tanks. With an absolute passion. As far as I'm concerned, bringing this rubbish into the game has been Wargaming's worst idea in a long, long time ... and there's some stiff competition.

I will finish this rotten line - with free xp, if I have to - because I have researched everything else, but once I'm done I will never touch any of these crappy tanks with a barge-pole.

 

/rant over



eekeeboo #146 Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:01 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 19 February 2019 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

I am reading what you're writing - I based my question on a direct quote from you

 

You claimed "There's literally no point" in offering players a choice between "Arcade" or "More realistic" modes.

 

You made that claim, nobody forced you into it.

 

Evidence is not "your opinion" - it's evidence. So post the evidence to back up what you claimed.

 

If you were, you would know there is no point in doing the research. You do not research ways to force your game into markets already occupied with a product and you do not try to turn the game into something that breaks away from the core principle that keeps your players. That is what was stated and you should have read, if you had you'd know that making polls, research etc is pointless, you do that before you release a game, you don't do it after you've already got millions of players. 

 

 



Saar_Lion #147 Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:32 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 21 February 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

If you were, you would know there is no point in doing the research. 

 

 

So you don't have any facts, only your opinion.

 

Thats fine. But at least be big enough to admit it. 



eekeeboo #148 Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:58 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 21 February 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

So you don't have any facts, only your opinion.

 

Thats fine. But at least be big enough to admit it. 

 

The fact is simply how product segmentation and marketing works, if you don't know this, then there's no way to prove it to you. You don't design a game then decide you want to change it at the last minute to compete with a game that already does something in the market. 

Saar_Lion #149 Posted 22 February 2019 - 07:46 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 21 February 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

 

The fact is simply how product segmentation and marketing works,

 

No, it isn't.

 

Companies strive to find new markets, not stagnate in old ones; to develop new customers, not milk their existing ones then drive them away.

 

These are things you'd know if you'd actually run a business, or been involved in marketing one.

 

But you carry on pretending you're doing a great job by forcing everyone into your Quake with Tanks arcade world, and giving them no options. Maybe WoT will end up being a few hundred bods seal clubbing in a Pz 1 C like you probably do.

 

Won't that be great? 



Gremlin182 #150 Posted 22 February 2019 - 08:40 PM

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If I have observed anything in this game it is that everyone wants something different.

Its impossible to find a large enough group of players that want a specific change for it to be a good idea to make such a change.

 

Take realism there are probably very few that want an actual realistic tank game

One where you cannot make any repairs to your tank if its tracked you are stuck if a crew member is wounded then they take no further part in the game.

Where you cannot move your gun through terrain and pushing down walls buildings and so on can throw a track.

 

There will be some that want more realism than we have now.

Others that want the tanks to be historically correct and no tanks that were not in actual service.

Some that want the nations separated in battles so its Russian vs German and not a mix of all nations against all nations and so on.

 

Any changes that limit what we have now will alienate some players and please others.

I know there are some that want SPGs removed Premium ammo removed the MM limited to +1 or Same tier .

Some want the Matchmaker to be based on win rate so 50+ players do not meet or have 44% players on their teams.

 

 



Saar_Lion #151 Posted 23 February 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 22 February 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

 

Its impossible to find a large enough group of players that want a specific change for it to be a good idea to make such a change.

 

 

 

 

This is why I suggested the "tick box" - so that a player wants Easy Mode arcade, gets to play arcade against other arcade players. By leaving the box blank they get what they want.

 

Those who want more "realism" and greater challenges, eg, like the "cupola view" I mentioned, can likewise choose like-minded opponents. 

 

There could even be a second box for those who want full on "hair shirt realism" where as you say, a hit track means your battle is over.

 

Reward each with a tweaked scoring structure that attempts to balance the rewards out fairly, rather than have the seal-clubbing Pz 1 C Easy Mode gamer as king, and rather than half the people being unhappy with the game as it is and the other half not, *most* would be able to be enthusiastic, because it would be tailored to what they expect and want.

 

This seems to be beyond the faculties of the participating staffer to grasp

 

 

 

 

 

14:15 Added after 6 minutes

View PostGremlin182, on 22 February 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

 the MM limited to +1 or Same tier .

Some want the Matchmaker to be based on win rate so 50+ players do not meet or have 44% players on their teams.

 

 

 

 

MM should be limited to the same tier. It's a nonsense that it isn't. The only reason I can think of for it being +2 tiers is it helps some people pad their scores and others feel good about getting kills in a "special" they bought for gold.

 

 



Gremlin182 #152 Posted 23 February 2019 - 05:13 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 23 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

This is why I suggested the "tick box" - so that a player wants Easy Mode arcade, gets to play arcade against other arcade players. By leaving the box blank they get what they want.

 

Those who want more "realism" and greater challenges, eg, like the "cupola view" I mentioned, can likewise choose like-minded opponents. 

 

There could even be a second box for those who want full on "hair shirt realism" where as you say, a hit track means your battle is over.

 

Reward each with a tweaked scoring structure that attempts to balance the rewards out fairly, rather than have the seal-clubbing Pz 1 C Easy Mode gamer as king, and rather than half the people being unhappy with the game as it is and the other half not, *most* would be able to be enthusiastic, because it would be tailored to what they expect and want.

 

This seems to be beyond the faculties of the participating staffer to grasp

 

 

 

 

 

14:15 Added after 6 minutes

 

 

MM should be limited to the same tier. It's a nonsense that it isn't. The only reason I can think of for it being +2 tiers is it helps some people pad their scores and others feel good about getting kills in a "special" they bought for gold.

 

 

 

The problem is that its a lot of work and you might end up with far too few players to make it work.

Perhaps if they made a poll of the player base and got enough replies they might go for it, problem is only a fraction of the player base read the forum posts.

 

The good thing about  the MM when it was  -2  -1  0  +1  +2 was it was a challenge if fact I preferred it when we had scout mm which was +3.

Players could rely on being top tier as often as they were bottom tier this was great when you were working your way from stock modules to the better ones.

A Tier 7 Tiger 1 with the L56 gun was np because he was not always meeting tier 7 8 and 9 tanks like he does now.

The current MM is designed to make players suffer or pay cash to unlock those modules and or use premium ammo.

 

In the single tier games you describe tanks would have to be multi tier or have special MM when stock.

 

I think many game changes never make it past the discussion stage because they are hard to undo if they prove bad or are seen as limited in appeal.

Only wargaming know for sure.

 

They tried Historical battles but it was a failure.

They are testing out the single tier mode and who knows maybe front line will become permanent.



Saar_Lion #153 Posted 23 February 2019 - 07:21 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 23 February 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

 

The problem is that its a lot of work and you might end up with far too few players to make it work.

 

 

 

Having an Arcade / Realism / Hair Shirt button or tick box would be a simple sorting that took place based on code switches, just as your Tier and MM is now, laid over the top of your Tier. 

 

It wouldn't be a lot of work, really - it's a relatively simple (in coding terms) filter, applied by the player in the garage. Think of it in the same way as when you click Battle! - the servers sort you into a MM grouping based on your chosen tanks tier. 

 

And remember, it shuts out no players, nor does it hack any off - it offers them choice and - shall we say - enhances the quality of their experience (to use a boolshiz phrase.

 

View PostGremlin182, on 23 February 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

 

In the single tier games you describe tanks would have to be multi tier or have special MM when stock.

 

 

This is where your suggestion of a win rate filter comes in



eekeeboo #154 Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:29 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 22 February 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

 

No, it isn't.

 

Companies strive to find new markets, not stagnate in old ones; to develop new customers, not milk their existing ones then drive them away.

 

These are things you'd know if you'd actually run a business, or been involved in marketing one.

 

But you carry on pretending you're doing a great job by forcing everyone into your Quake with Tanks arcade world, and giving them no options. Maybe WoT will end up being a few hundred bods seal clubbing in a Pz 1 C like you probably do.

 

Won't that be great? 

 

You find new markets for new products. You look where your product can be marketed you do not look for a market and change your product for it, that's when you lose your current market. Please take the time to look up: market segmentation and target audience marketing. You're saying things that are simple and clearly have no knowledge or experience of either marketing or programming, otherwise, you'd know it is neither simple or easy. 

 

 



Saar_Lion #155 Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:08 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 25 February 2019 - 05:29 PM, said:

 

You find new markets for new products. You look where your product can be marketed you do not look for a market and change your product for it, that's when you lose your current market. Please take the time to look up: market segmentation and target audience marketing. You're saying things that are simple and clearly have no knowledge or experience of either marketing or programming, otherwise, you'd know it is neither simple or easy. 

 

 

 

 

After 8 pages of your nonsense I decided I would no longer bother discussing anything with you

 

I expect you think that makes you a great company rep...



Objec7 #156 Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:36 AM

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View PostGremlin182, on 22 February 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

If I have observed anything in this game it is that everyone wants something different.

Its impossible to find a large enough group of players that want a specific change for it to be a good idea to make such a change.

 

Take realism there are probably very few that want an actual realistic tank game

One where you cannot make any repairs to your tank if its tracked you are stuck if a crew member is wounded then they take no further part in the game.

Where you cannot move your gun through terrain and pushing down walls buildings and so on can throw a track.

 

There will be some that want more realism than we have now.

Others that want the tanks to be historically correct and no tanks that were not in actual service.

Some that want the nations separated in battles so its Russian vs German and not a mix of all nations against all nations and so on.

 

Any changes that limit what we have now will alienate some players and please others.

I know there are some that want SPGs removed Premium ammo removed the MM limited to +1 or Same tier .

Some want the Matchmaker to be based on win rate so 50+ players do not meet or have 44% players on their teams.

 

 

 

This doesn't make sense at all, how could they add wheeled vehicles if this was the case? It is always better to listen to the slightly higher half of the playerbase or making a compromise than doing whatever comes into your mind. Not that I would be against releasing WVs.

Homer_J #157 Posted 26 February 2019 - 10:00 AM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 14 February 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

 

Straight question: How do you know how many people would choose to tick the realism box? 

 

Way back we used to have organised battles with everything as close to realistic as possible using a realistic modded UI.  They don't happen any more but if you think it would be popular then feel free to organise it.

 

Did you ever play Red Orchestra?  That was realistic, and after only a few weeks needed masses of bots just to keep the servers playable.

 

That is the popularity of realism.  Pretty much close to zero.


Edited by Homer_J, 26 February 2019 - 10:01 AM.


eekeeboo #158 Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 25 February 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

 

 

After 8 pages of your nonsense I decided I would no longer bother discussing anything with you

 

I expect you think that makes you a great company rep...

 

Generally knowing things and knowing how it works does help yes, being informed is better than just saying "Introduce all the things I promise!" Because that's not how game development works or how being a CM works. Thankyou for being both educated and informed on the matter, it helps a lot! 

 

 



Saar_Lion #159 Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:29 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 26 February 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

Generally knowing things and knowing how it works does help yes, being informed is better than just saying "Introduce all the things I promise!" Because that's not how game development works or how being a CM works. Thankyou for being both educated and informed on the matter, it helps a lot! 

 

 

 

I was a CM in online gaming long before you were, which is how I know what a pigs ear you're making of the job.

 

Just to help you out, being a CM is not the same as being a company shill



eekeeboo #160 Posted 27 February 2019 - 07:31 PM

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View PostSaar_Lion, on 26 February 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

 

I was a CM in online gaming long before you were, which is how I know what a pigs ear you're making of the job.

 

Just to help you out, being a CM is not the same as being a company shill

 

Luckily the job I have is the one that tells me what I need to do, whereas your job was clearly very different to every other CM job ever and how that process works. I wish you luck and learning how development and marketing segmentation works. 




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