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Question about wheeled vehicles


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DeadLecter #1 Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:44 PM

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There is one thing that has been worrying me. Since these WVs are classified as LTs, will they be treated same as other LTs for MM? Meaning is it possible to have MM setups where one team has these WVs and the other side doesn't? Because on some maps these will outperform normal LTs and on some other normal LTs will be more useful. So to balance this there should be equal number of WVs and LTs on both team, right?

Bordhaw #2 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:29 PM

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*Edited

Edited by VyNKaSMyN, 02 February 2019 - 04:02 PM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to spamming.


FluffyRedFox #3 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:31 PM

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View PostBordhaw, on 01 February 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

 

Thank you for such a thoughtful and insightful post that truly helps the OP.

 

@OP, I believe the armoured cars are treated by the matchmaker like normal lights, however its hard to know for sure on test server since there's much more armoured cars running around that light tanks.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #4 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:33 PM

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No, they're classified as light tanks and so the MM will probably put them up sometimes against actual light tanks. Which maps do you think those will outperform regular lights? Can't think of any particular situation really!

Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 01 February 2019 - 09:34 PM.


FluffyRedFox #5 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:38 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 February 2019 - 08:33 PM, said:

No, they're classified as light tanks and so the MM will probably put them up sometimes against actual light tanks. Which maps do you think those will outperform regular lights? Can't think of any situation really!

I think there are a few situational scenarios where an AC might be a better option than a Light, like quite endgame against paper tanks that are already spotted. Other than that, ye it'll be quite hard to not outperform an armoured car while in a light.



Jumping_Turtle #6 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:39 PM

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Steppes perhaps ? Not much bushes and lots of dips and ridges

XxKuzkina_MatxX #7 Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:58 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 01 February 2019 - 10:38 PM, said:

I think there are a few situational scenarios where an AC might be a better option than a Light, like quite endgame against paper tanks that are already spotted. Other than that, ye it'll be quite hard to not outperform an armoured car while in a light.

 

I am under the impression that they're made for nuisance purposes during the battle but what can they do end game? Reset the cap? Coming closer and taking a shot in the face? idk!

 

View PostJumping_Turtle, on 01 February 2019 - 10:39 PM, said:

Steppes perhaps ? Not much bushes and lots of dips and ridges

 

The closer you get, on Steppes, the higher the chance of being hit and you've to get close because no VR. Every time you do one of those rounds, all it takes is one big hit to send you back to garage.

 

Stupid design and a useless addition to the tech tree IMO. When i compare this to the introduction of the swedish tech tree with siege mode, awesome turrets and great gun depression, i feel really bad that the developing was reduced to this go kart crap!



kubawt112 #8 Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:07 PM

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Could be an issue, yes, just like mismatch of every other tank isn't ideal.

 

Dunno if there are many maps where a light tank is the decisive factor, though, or even where you can get a viable amount of spotting (not necessarily a bad thing that the bush you rush to may have limited effectiveness, of course). Perhaps an LT/WW mismatch is bound to be less of an issue than a HT mismatch?



DeadLecter #9 Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:33 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 02 February 2019 - 12:03 AM, said:

No, they're classified as light tanks and so the MM will probably put them up sometimes against actual light tanks. Which maps do you think those will outperform regular lights? Can't think of any particular situation really!

 

obviously I can't think of all scenarios but there are few that came to my mind. Hill on Mines, Hill on Tundra, agressively taking mid on Fjords,  Active spotting on Malinovka when everyone is trying to get in position, and probably some more that I can't think of right now. And up to tier 8, their guns seam to be just as good as normal LTs, at T9 and T10 they have worse guns but at T10 EBR 105 apparently can reach full view range which makes the argument of these tanks having less view range pointless. I can't say whether they will be better than our LTs ot not since CT doesn't really tell us how it will actually be, but I think 99% of the time if a team has normal scout, and the enemy has WV, they are at a disadvantage because most of these tanks are driven by bad players who just want to drive around and will die in the first 20 30 seconds and that is when it gets real. Enemy has a scout and you don't. With normal LTs that still happens but WVs will just make it happen more often and we all know how those matches end up on open maps that desperately need a scout.

malowany #10 Posted 02 February 2019 - 12:04 AM

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The only way I see them outperforming LT is if they do a early suicide rush and mange to spot some poor slow sods driving into position and getting blown to bits.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 02 February 2019 - 12:18 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 02 February 2019 - 12:33 AM, said:

 

obviously I can't think of all scenarios but there are few that came to my mind. Hill on Mines, Hill on Tundra, agressively taking mid on Fjords,  Active spotting on Malinovka when everyone is trying to get in position, and probably some more that I can't think of right now. And up to tier 8, their guns seam to be just as good as normal LTs, at T9 and T10 they have worse guns but at T10 EBR 105 apparently can reach full view range which makes the argument of these tanks having less view range pointless. I can't say whether they will be better than our LTs ot not since CT doesn't really tell us how it will actually be, but I think 99% of the time if a team has normal scout, and the enemy has WV, they are at a disadvantage because most of these tanks are driven by bad players who just want to drive around and will die in the first 20 30 seconds and that is when it gets real. Enemy has a scout and you don't. With normal LTs that still happens but WVs will just make it happen more often and we all know how those matches end up on open maps that desperately need a scout.

 

The 4 situations, or rather positions, you mentioned are map not vehicle dependent. Sure the faster tank will get there first but it will also suffer the consequences. Getting on top of the hill in Mines doesn't mean your mediums, especially if they're slower, are going to follow or be able to.

 

There is finality to these positions, an enemy medium following you up the hill means you're finished and that medium will be able to do so if his spawn is Mines north or Fjords east for example.

 

The guns seem similar to LT guns, VR and camo are trash. I don't get it really! what's the point of introducing such a useless element to the tech tree?

 

Are these for someone's son/daughter or something, like highway???


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 02 February 2019 - 12:22 AM.


Balc0ra #12 Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:33 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 01 February 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

There is one thing that has been worrying me. Since these WVs are classified as LTs, will they be treated same as other LTs for MM? Meaning is it possible to have MM setups where one team has these WVs and the other side doesn't? Because on some maps these will outperform normal LTs and on some other normal LTs will be more useful. So to balance this there should be equal number of WVs and LTs on both team, right?

 

If the run in the premium rental was a sign. Then yes, they are LTs and will be treated as LTs. That can cause some issues sure on some maps. As most will have 360m view range with this. And in the open, they can't counter a passive scout with 445. 

 

But how many there will be after the initial wave calm's down is a different matter. And how it will affect the MM. As in if there is a need to weight them up vs other wheeled lights vs tracked lights. 

 



Robbie_T #13 Posted 02 February 2019 - 02:50 AM

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Think that would be a problem having them as Lt's....

Dont see them being better in the Lt roll



Warzey #14 Posted 02 February 2019 - 05:49 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 February 2019 - 08:33 PM, said:

No, they're classified as light tanks and so the MM will probably put them up sometimes against actual light tanks. Which maps do you think those will outperform regular lights? Can't think of any particular situation really!

 

I can tell you one thing, wheeled lights have a massively better chances of survival in "suicide scout" runs. When it comes to regular active scouting it really comes down to map and situation, sometimes higher view range will be more useful, sometimes better mobility will be more useful.

WoT_RU_Doing #15 Posted 02 February 2019 - 06:38 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 01 February 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

There is one thing that has been worrying me. Since these WVs are classified as LTs, will they be treated same as other LTs for MM? Meaning is it possible to have MM setups where one team has these WVs and the other side doesn't? Because on some maps these will outperform normal LTs and on some other normal LTs will be more useful. So to balance this there should be equal number of WVs and LTs on both team, right?

 

I think that will be a genuine problem until people start to get tired of them. With the emphasis on Chinese tanks this month, challenging a wheeled AFV doesn't excite me too much vs chasing with one when I'm driving something like a T71 DA or 13 57. Funny how we are encouraged to play the Chinese lights at the same time as the wheeled tanks come in. I think I'll go get my tinfoil hat now.

DeadLecter #16 Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:19 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 02 February 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

 

The 4 situations, or rather positions, you mentioned are map not vehicle dependent. Sure the faster tank will get there first but it will also suffer the consequences. Getting on top of the hill in Mines doesn't mean your mediums, especially if they're slower, are going to follow or be able to.

 

There is finality to these positions, an enemy medium following you up the hill means you're finished and that medium will be able to do so if his spawn is Mines north or Fjords east for example.

 

The guns seem similar to LT guns, VR and camo are trash. I don't get it really! what's the point of introducing such a useless element to the tech tree?

 

Are these for someone's son/daughter or something, like highway???

 

I don't follow the news of the update but I watched some videos and they said they have better camo. I think EBR 105 managed to reach 44% camo with BiA and Camo+Food. The only real downsides are first the VR and next gun. I'm not saying they are definitely better or worse than LT's because we really have to wait and see. But I can imagine they will be worse than LT's since they have inferior guns and more mobiity which just worsens people's need to yolo and die in 10 seconds. But on some maps you have to admit they can be the tie breaker. Like on Prokhorovka. Even though LTs can do the same job, these will have a better chance of active scouting. But all things considered I think they will be far worse than normal LTs and LTs are already underpowered.

Edited by DeadLecter, 02 February 2019 - 10:19 AM.


arthurwellsley #17 Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:46 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 02 February 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

 Like on Prokhorovka. Even though LTs can do the same job, these will have a better chance of active scouting. But all things considered I think they will be far worse than normal LTs and LTs are already underpowered.

 

I played the rental tier VIII and that analysis is just plain wrong. The wheeled armoured cars have such poor view range the middle ridge of Prokhorovka will result in nil spotting for them when compared to a light tank.

 

Secondly sideways on the Wheeled vehicles are much much large in profile (taller) than most light tanks and thus is playing the middle ridge easier to hit than the average light tank of the same tier. The top of most light tanks is lower than the top of the wheel on the equivalent tier wheeled vehicle.

 

Make no mistake these wheeled vehicles have worst stats in most departments than light tanks. The only thing they will excell at is (a) jumps, and (b) suicide runs to kill SPGs.



DracheimFlug #18 Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:27 AM

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Why exactly do they have such poor view range? Artificial 'balancing?'

pudelikael #19 Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:36 AM

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Make a game around:

 

On slow heavy tanks and TDs larger viewing distance and light tanks make all rally tanks.

Light tank work is no longer a spot. All games are getting better. 

 

Or remove malinovka, prohorovka and tundra


Edited by pudelikael, 02 February 2019 - 11:37 AM.





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