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WZ-113G FT

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Ulodwor #1 Posted 02 February 2019 - 12:49 AM


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The Chinese tier X tank destroyer apparently does not see very much play. This is not a huge surprise. It would in fact be more surprising if the WZ-113G FT was a popular choice. 


There seems to be two reasons for this lack of appeal.  Firstly, the WZ-113G FT is not a very powerful tank, as its win rate would suggest. Secondly and perhaps more importantly, the WZ-113G FT is a very, very bland tank. In short, the WZ-113G FT lack a credible selling point. I can't really find a good reason as to why anyone should choose the WZ-113G FT above the competition. 

But let's be specific as to why the WZ-113G FT might be perceived as a slightly underwhelming choice. 


There are currently eleven top of the tree tank destroyers. 


Out of these eleven tier X tank destroyers, there are seven turretless TD's. One of which is the WZ -113G FT. 

The most frequent damage is 750. Five out of the eleven has 750 damage. One of these five is the WZ -113G FT.   


What you'll notice is that these turretless tank destroyers tend to bring something unique to the table. 


Jagdpanzer E100 - highest damage
Object 268 v4 - high top speed combined with the best armor
Foch B - autoloader
Badger - great gun handling combined with good armor
Stridsvagn 103B - siege mechanics


Now, T110E3, Object 268 and WZ-113G FT all have 750 damage and does at first seem fairly similar to each other. A closer look however does reveal some clear differences and some more or less unique qualities.  


T110E3 offers decent gun handling, the weakest mobility and the best armor. It's the obvious choice when you want a really tough tank which can bounce a lot of shots and block a critical position. 


Object 268 meanwhile is the fastest and also has the best accuracy as well as the best shell velocity on the standard ammunition. Object 268 appears the best alternative when you want to move around, reach good spots quickly and snipe accurately with a 750 base damage gun. 


WZ-113G FT... well... this is the tricky part. From what I recall vBAddict stats suggested it bounced just about as much damage as Object 268. Concealment rating is much better than T110E3 but slightly worse than Object 268. Movement is better than T110E3 but worse than Object 268. The WZ-113G FT is not as tough as the T110E3 and can't move and snipe like the Objekt 268. 


The WZ-113G FT has the most hit points, +2.5% compared to the T110E3 and +7.5% to compared to Objekt 268. This is significant, albeit fairly minor and an advantage so general as to largely lack character. Tanks.GG does suggest WZ-113G FT might have a marginally better tank traverse rate than Object 268 which might give it an edge at close range. WZ-113G FT does come with the least gun bloom and the widest gun traverse arc which makes targeting more convenient. Unfortunately it also has the highest gun dispersion as well as terrible shell velocity which should make the WZ-113G FT the worst long range sniper.

So... what small advantages the WZ -113G FT might bring seems to materialize primarily at close range - better gun handling, better gun arc and possibly better tank traverse rate. You could also argue hit points are more useful at close range where you are more likely to be shot at. At long range the WZ -113G FT seems to be at a disadvantage compared to it's two closest competitors.

Does this make the WZ -113G FT  a close combat monster which instead should be compared to the Object 268 v.4?


Well, lets just say that does not seem a very flattering comparison for the WZ -113G FT. Object 268 v.4 can move in fast, take a good position and leverage its superior armor. WZ -113G FT does not have the speed nor the armor to even come close to the aggressive combat presence of the Object 268 v.4.


The slight close range advantages of the WZ-113G FT seems more defensive in nature. That is, when you're about to be flanked the WZ-113G FT does not suck as bad as the T110E3 or the Object 268 because you have less gun bloom, a wider gun arc and traverse faster. But let's get real here, it's a turretless tank destroyer and it still sucks when someone's close enough to flank you. 


I'm not saying it's not a useful quality to be slightly less vulnerable to flanking for a turretless tank destroyer. On the contrary, it's quite important. It's however not a very sexy ability. It's not really a selling point which might make players want to play the WZ-113G FT. The in game tool provides a traverse ratio of 31.29 to 29.20 to 25.03 for the WZ-113G FT to Object 268 to T110E3. A negligible advantage in other words, which given the presence of hidden stats you might even want to question the the validity of. 

Which of course brings us to the question as to exactly why anyone should attempt the grind for the WZ-113G FT? To me there is no good answer. The WZ-113G FT does not have a sufficiently unique selling point. The WZ-113G FT  is  a bland and slightly underpowered tank destroyer which lacks a role and does not do anything important substantially better than its competition. 


In summary, the WZ-113G FT is an unpopular tank destroyer which thoroughly deserves to be unpopular.  

Edited by Ulodwor, 02 February 2019 - 01:13 AM.

Quintuss #2 Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:25 AM

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You forgot the second reason why you see so few of the tier 10: the line isn't worth playing.


If you look at the T110E3-line the T28 is the only "meh"-tank in the line, and even that is quite solid, same for the JPzE100-line: while suffering a bit from the meta still the has solid tanks all the way up. The O268v4 line used to be horrible, but after the buffs you again have solid tanks all the way (yes, a bit limited by the layout, but overall strong).


Playing though the china-TD line it was the same every tier: no mobility and a useless stock gun, then after you got all modules still a tank that felt just like a very bad version of the russian one.

Ulodwor #3 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:59 AM


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Well, I did not forget it as much as I did not entirely agree with the sentiment myself and really did not know exactly why other people was not playing the line. 

That said I also did not think the Chinese tank destroyer line looked all that good when I started the tree. However, at the time of the last Chinese special I believe thought I could use a tier VII tank destroyer for campaign missions and with the experience bonus from the special the fastest way to get there seemed to be to start the Chinese tank destroyers from scratch. Also as a fairly new player I wanted to take advantage of all that free experience.

Turned out there was some Chinese tank destroyers I found quite good and would recommend. I did not spend much time on tiers II - IV as I already had plenty of low tier tank destroyers I liked. The tier V however I kept as there was nothing about it I disliked, most stats were good enough and on top of that it came with a ferocious dpm. The tier VI was also quite pleasant, it handled well, could get around and came with good pen and good damage. 


Unfortunately the tier VII was not really what I had hoped for. It was less mobile, did not handle very well and still the armor was not very good. The second gun did not feel powerful enough and I just despised the derpy top gun. Both guns also felt lacking in terms of penetration. In the end I could not get this thing out of my garage fast enough. That however left me with a semi-decent crew stranded so I decided to get the tier VIII. There really was no better  option. 


While I'd not describe the grind as very pleasant, god forbid you try to use the stock gun, in the end I found the tier VIII reasonably good. Because of tier VIII matchmaking armor is not very important and it was possible to concentrate on long range sniping which really is not too taxing in terms of what skills to get. Which was important since I have no premium Chinese tank destroyer to train crew with. Damage is good and unlike the tier VII there are no issues with penetration. Crap mobility and not really my kind of tank but still good enough that I kept it.  


At this point I however felt it was time to leave the Chinese tank destroyers to their fate. Having experienced the tier VIII, investing in a resource demanding tier IX which would offer more of the same did not seem very appealing. Then I however got the Bravo bonus package and a free Chinese tank destroyer crew which I could jump start. So I decided to buy the tier IX after all. 


The good thing about the tier IX is there is no grind to speak of. It works ok out of the box. You could continue to play it with the stock gun just like the tier VIII, the gun is a slightly improved version of  the tier VIII top gun and the added hit points and armor could just be considered a bonus. However, if this kind of gameplay is what you're looking for, the Jagdtiger offers the same damage and a gun that's better in just about every way. There would be no reason not to play the Jagdtiger instead. To play the WZ-111G FT with the stock gun would be like looking at the somewhat "challenged" cousin of the Jagdtiger, pointing at it while loudly exclaiming "I choose YOU, WZ-111G FT!"


It just makes no sense. 

For that reason I feel you have to make the top gun work somehow if you are going make the most of the WZ-111G FT. And this is where it becomes a bit difficult. 


Could you use the top gun of the WZ-111G FT to snipe successfully despite its poor accuracy and low shell velocity and do well? Perhaps your opponents would be unable to reliably hit your weak spots at long range and so your armor beginning to work at long range would compensate for your gun no longer working at long range? 


That would be the easy option. One could always hope that would be enough. 


The more problematic option would be if you'd have to move closer and use your armor to effectively use your gun. The armor profile of the WZ-111G FT seems easy to use in the sense that there is no angling required. Just point the front towards the enemy. The armor profile however also seems difficult to use effectively since it apparently only works against opponents firing from the 12 o'clock position. If they are positioned slightly to the side they'll pen the shoulder or the huge and unarmored target that is the side of the superstructure with no issue whatsoever. 


This a problem for several reasons. First of all the turn rate of the WZ-111G FT is crap so an opponent maneuvering up close could easily get to the side and then penetrate every shot. Secondly, if you get tracked opponents would not have to move very far at all to avoid your tougher front and make a shoulder a weak spot. Also, if two or more opponents can target you, they won't have to be positioned very far apart for one of them to be constantly able to penenetrate your shoulder and side.   


Of course, the closer you get to the opponent, the easier it will be for them to track you and move far enough to target your worthless side armor.  So the repair skill will become essential. Which will place an additional burden on your skill pool and require a better crew. Suffice to say this seems quite a tall order and I'm not sure I could ever make a more aggressive play style work  for the WZ-111G FT . Even if it could be done I don't think I have the crew to pull it off. For now, the WZ-111G FT is more of an "interesting challenge" than a good or enjoyable tank to play. 


Meanwhile since the tier X WZ-113G FT is basically a slightly upgraded clone of the WZ-111G FT though arguably slightly weaker for it's tier it really does not look like a great choice.  It'd play exactly like the WZ-111G FT, only sitting at a more competive tier which would place even higher demands on crew skills and on top of that a tier that is a bottomless cesspool of credit drain which one would have to pay through the nose for the "pleasure" of playing. 


For obvious reasons the WZ-113G FT does not seem a sensible choice for anyone who has not already made the WZ-111G FT work and really like it. 

Edited by Ulodwor, 05 February 2019 - 05:17 AM.

WoT_RU_Doing #4 Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:38 AM


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Having played my highest ever damage game two nights ago, in the WZ-113G FT, I think I've earned the right to say that I agree with you - this TD sucks. It needs some more armour if it's to use it's gun at close enough ranges to be reliable, or some improvements to the accuracy if it's to have any hope at long range. While either would be good, some more speed would be nice too, as it is quite capable of missing a battle if deployed to the wrong area.

Edited by WoT_RU_Doing, 07 February 2019 - 01:39 AM.

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