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Warsaw - A Huge & Historical Grand Battles Map Proposal (With Pictures And Minimap)!

Polish Poland Map Proposal New Minimap Pictures Design Historical Grand Battle

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grizly1973 #1 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:09 PM

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Well hi there, I'm back...

 

...with something special for the Polish community and not only, a brand new shiny map proposal: Warsaw!

 

It's a historical map cropped from aerial pictures of the city from 1945. It's bigger than most maps in-game; 4 times bigger, in fact, as it's a 2 x 2 Km cut of the ruined city.

"Why that big if a GB map is 1.4 x 1.4 Km in size (as of now)?"-you may ask.

Well, the map has a lot of empty field and long firing lines, which require it to be bigger so things don't get to cluttered. You'll see (and hopefully agree) once you get to the "map zones" part.

 

Being situated in Szmulowizna, Kamionek, Targówek Fabryczny and Targówek Mieszkaniow (pretty much at the edge between the Praga Północ and Praga Południe districts of the city), it offers diverse areas intended for both short-range and long-range fighting.

 

Without further ado, here's the perfect cut of the map (i.e. our minimap):

Surprise surprise!

 

Instead of drawing sloppy numbers in even sloppy-er rectangles (square attempts), I decided to take close-up aerial views of the places I want to talk more about (or simply highlight to you), given that there's not many of them. Here they are:

Spoiler

 

Now with this out of the way, I can finally move to the tactics of each class and the gameplay aspect:

Spoiler

 

And now, given that there's so many railways on this map, it's only natural to provide some filling material for them, right? Right. if you like trains, you'll surely like this spoiler. If not, what can I say... Shame on you! Here's some pictures of Polish locomotives of that period:

Trains:

 

With this out of the way, I would generally suggest a soundtrack (if you've seen my other map proposals), but in this case, I really have no idea what to suggest for the soundtrack. There isn't anything fitting that I know of. A theme for this map would most likely be sad and reminding of the horrors that happened in the city in that period. A soundtrack for this map has to be created very sensibly and would have to be both good to listen to and remind of the history behind the city, which is hard to do.

 

If you've read everything, congrats. You've reached the end! I really appreciate replies (likes will also do :P) and I answer all of them!

 

If you haven't seen my other map proposals, check them out (or miss the awesome content featured in there):

My other proposals:

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:27 PM

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Nice idea, as usual, and i noticed that the map features can be compressed not in size but in density to suit WOT more. Compared to this, Studzianki looks really bad!

 

Block Quote

 This military-looking establishment is situated in the South-Eastern corner of the map and many trucks can be seen parked by the buildings it contains. I don't know what it is or what it served, as it no longer exists and frankly, I have no idea what to even search for to get more info on it. I'm pretty sure that a local historian or some expert can easily determine what is what (not only regarding this building, but every location contained by the map borders and outside them).

 

That's probably an anti aircraft installation.

 

Pretty impressive streamlining for a 1936 design!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 05 February 2019 - 04:29 PM.


OIias_of_Sunhillow #3 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:27 PM

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WG, give this guy a job.

SABAOTH #4 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View PostOIias_of_Sunhillow, on 05 February 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

WG, give this guy a job.

 

Probably could do better than it's now :girl:

grizly1973 #5 Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:43 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 05 February 2019 - 05:29 PM, said:

 

Probably could do better than it's now :girl:

 

:ohmy: Oh no! Pls tell me what could be changed and I'll keep it in mind for future suggestions! :honoring:
15:46 Added after 2 minutes

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 05 February 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Nice idea, as usual, and i noticed that the map features can be compressed not in size but in density to suit WOT more. Compared to this, Studzianki looks really bad!

 

 

That's probably an anti aircraft installation.

 

I thought of compressing everything, but I'd rather have something as big and meaningful as Warsaw itself as a Grand Battles map. I'm surprised at how WG didn't add it as the Polish map. The only reason I can think of is the sensibility of the subject. I'm not sure if Poles would be happy to see their ravaged capital in the game... but then again, history is history even if it hurts.

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll edit it once the forum stops being so jerky and stabilises (I got quite a few errors in the last hour). :)



SABAOTH #6 Posted 05 February 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 05 February 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

:ohmy: Oh no! Pls tell me what could be changed and I'll keep it in mind for future suggestions! :honoring:
15:46 Added after 2 minutes

 

I thought of compressing everything, but I'd rather have something as big and meaningful as Warsaw itself as a Grand Battles map. I'm surprised at how WG didn't add it as the Polish map. The only reason I can think of is the sensibility of the subject. I'm not sure if Poles would be happy to see their ravaged capital in the game... but then again, history is history even if it hurts.

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll edit it once the forum stops being so jerky and stabilises (I got quite a few errors in the last hour). :)

 

I mean you could do a better job than the mappers flattening out everything :girl:

grizly1973 #7 Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:03 PM

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View PostLagochillus, on 05 February 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

Even better, give polish community own server :)

 

OOF that hurt. :ohmy: Seriously though, they are the backbone of the EU server. God knows how many millions they bring in WG's credit accounts. They are keeping the game alive, even if they kill you:harp:

Dava_117 #8 Posted 06 February 2019 - 10:58 AM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 05 February 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

Well hi there, I'm back...

 

...with something special for the Polish community and not only, a brand new shiny map proposal: Warsaw!

 

It's a historical map cropped from aerial pictures of the city from 1945. It's bigger than most maps in-game; 4 times bigger, in fact, as it's a 2 x 2 Km cut of the ruined city.

"Why that big if a GB map is 1.4 x 1.4 Km in size (as of now)?"-you may ask.

Well, the map has a lot of empty field and long firing lines, which require it to be bigger so things don't get to cluttered. You'll see (and hopefully agree) once you get to the "map zones" part.

 

Being situated in Szmulowizna, Kamionek, Targówek Fabryczny and Targówek Mieszkaniow (pretty much at the edge between the Praga Północ and Praga Południe districts of the city), it offers diverse areas intended for both short-range and long-range fighting.

 

Without further ado, here's the perfect cut of the map (i.e. our minimap):

Surprise surprise!

 

Instead of drawing sloppy numbers in even sloppy-er rectangles (square attempts), I decided to take close-up aerial views of the places I want to talk more about (or simply highlight to you), given that there's not many of them. Here they are:

Spoiler

 

Now with this out of the way, I can finally move to the tactics of each class and the gameplay aspect:

Spoiler

 

And now, given that there's so many railways on this map, it's only natural to provide some filling material for them, right? Right. if you like trains, you'll surely like this spoiler. If not, what can I say... Shame on you! Here's some pictures of Polish locomotives of that period:

Trains:

 

With this out of the way, I would generally suggest a soundtrack (if you've seen my other map proposals), but in this case, I really have no idea what to suggest for the soundtrack. There isn't anything fitting that I know of. A theme for this map would most likely be sad and reminding of the horrors that happened in the city in that period. A soundtrack for this map has to be created very sensibly and would have to be both good to listen to and remind of the history behind the city, which is hard to do.

 

If you've read everything, congrats. You've reached the end! I really appreciate replies (likes will also do :P) and I answer all of them!

 

If you haven't seen my other map proposals, check them out (or miss the awesome content featured in there):

My other proposals:

 

 

Looks nice and well developed.

My only concern is that the south-west team can get better positions than the north-east one or gain easier acces to 70% of the map.

 

Also +1 for the train spoiler! Really like the PKP Pm36 Class locomotive. That airdynamic cover is really beautiful! :)



SilviettaG #9 Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

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Hello guys,

 

I removed some non constructive comments.

 

Please follow our Forum Rules - http://forum.worldof...24-forum-rules/

 

Thank you! Have a nice day! :bajan:



arthurwellsley #10 Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:04 AM

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Dear OP

 

Nice idea, and good work.

 

However, city maps tend to be somewhat unpopular with the player base.

 

Please could you find a part of the Polish countryside with some features (small village, railway, river etc) where an actual battle took place and do some work on that.

 

Remember Minsk was introduced to the game as a recent map, and it is going to be removed as WG has decided too many matches take too long on it.

 

I still want Kalkhin Gol battle - which has lots of rivers and a hill



grizly1973 #11 Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:17 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 February 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Looks nice and well developed.

My only concern is that the south-west team can get better positions than the north-east one or gain easier acces to 70% of the map.

 

Also +1 for the train spoiler! Really like the PKP Pm36 Class locomotive. That airdynamic cover is really beautiful! :)

 

Thank you! In theory, the Northern team should be able to get to that railroad first and catch TDs off-position, or even completly advance over the railway and get to the buildings situated in the field. Keep in mind that the buildings are very large (entire factories) due to the scaling and that the distances are also very large. There's at least 1.5 Km to the railroad from the Southern base if you drive in a straight line perpendicular to it. The Northern team has less than 1 Km to get to the first bridge passage (where other rails pass under the mainline). Also, the Northern team should be able to occupy more of the city faster than the Southern team could.

I find it balanced and different gameplay-wise depending on which spawn you are on. Only actual testing could reveal the need of adjustments!

10:22 Added after 4 minutes

View Postarthurwellsley, on 06 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Dear OP

 

Nice idea, and good work.

 

However, city maps tend to be somewhat unpopular with the player base.

 

Please could you find a part of the Polish countryside with some features (small village, railway, river etc) where an actual battle took place and do some work on that.

 

Remember Minsk was introduced to the game as a recent map, and it is going to be removed as WG has decided too many matches take too long on it.

 

I still want Kalkhin Gol battle - which has lots of rivers and a hill

 

There's already a Khalkin Gol map proposal here: https://malsmaps.wor...-8-khalkin-gol/

So there's no point to make another one. Also, my maps are always coming with an exact minimap. The map you've shown above is a battle plan and could not be used to make a good, accurate minimap (given my current experience with maps). I need aerial pictures or Google Maps to make my maps. I am planning on some alternate-history stuff that I'm sure you will like, but that's still just an early concept.

 

As a side note, I've already mentioned the same Khalkin Gol map proposal in the replies to my first map proposal. I suggest you check it out, because it's very radical to most current maps: http://forum.worldof...es-and-minimap/



arthurwellsley #12 Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 06 February 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

 

Thank you! In theory, the Northern team should be able to get to that railroad first and catch TDs off-position, or even completly advance over the railway and get to the buildings situated in the field. Keep in mind that the buildings are very large (entire factories) due to the scaling and that the distances are also very large. There's at least 1.5 Km to the railroad from the Southern base if you drive in a straight line perpendicular to it. The Northern team has less than 1 Km to get to the first bridge passage (where other rails pass under the mainline). Also, the Northern team should be able to occupy more of the city faster than the Southern team could.

I find it balanced and different gameplay-wise depending on which spawn you are on. Only actual testing could reveal the need of adjustments!

10:22 Added after 4 minutes

 

There's already a Khalkin Gol map proposal here: https://malsmaps.wor...-8-khalkin-gol/

So there's no point to make another one. Also, my maps are always coming with an exact minimap. The map you've shown above is a battle plan and could not be used to make a good, accurate minimap (given my current experience with maps). I need aerial pictures or Google Maps to make my maps. I am planning on some alternate-history stuff that I'm sure you will like, but that's still just an early concept.

 

As a side note, I've already mentioned the same Khalkin Gol map proposal in the replies to my first map proposal. I suggest you check it out, because it's very radical to most current maps: http://forum.worldof...es-and-minimap/

 

The Khalkin Gol proposal on Mal's Maps was made by Mal back in September 2014, thus WG need reminding of it periodically.

 

In the earlier thread it was me who posted the picture of the removed Port map to show how similar your proposal was to the removed map, and secondly it was also me that mentioned Khalkin Gol in that thread.

 

But I return to the basic point, city maps are not popular with either the player base as a whole, or for that matter with WG, who despite all the work are now proposing to remove Minsk.

 

Remember looking at removed city maps other than Port there are;

Berlin (a rampage mode map)

Kharkov

Stalingrad

Windstorm

 

I would suggest that your Warsaw map (although I really like the trains) is pretty similar to Kharkov and Stalingrad.



grizly1973 #13 Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 06 February 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

 

The Khalkin Gol proposal on Mal's Maps was made by Mal back in September 2014, thus WG need reminding of it periodically.

 

In the earlier thread it was me who posted the picture of the removed Port map to show how similar your proposal was to the removed map, and secondly it was also me that mentioned Khalkin Gol in that thread.

 

But I return to the basic point, city maps are not popular with either the player base as a whole, or for that matter with WG, who despite all the work are now proposing to remove Minsk.

 

Remember looking at removed city maps other than Port there are;

Berlin (a rampage mode map)

Kharkov

Stalingrad

Windstorm

 

I would suggest that your Warsaw map (although I really like the trains) is pretty similar to Kharkov and Stalingrad.

Excuse me for not realising it. Sorry. :(

 

Minsk is preparing to get completly reworked as far as I know.

 

But my map is more fields than city blocks. The city is also different from the cities we have on our current maps (or these removed ones). There's A LOT of flanking potential, just like on Arad (my 1st map proposal) and also A LOT of open space to make everybody happy. :)



The_Georgian_One #14 Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:56 PM

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View Postgrizly1973, on 05 February 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

:ohmy: Oh no! Pls tell me what could be changed and I'll keep it in mind for future suggestions! :honoring:
15:46 Added after 2 minutes

 

I thought of compressing everything, but I'd rather have something as big and meaningful as Warsaw itself as a Grand Battles map. I'm surprised at how WG didn't add it as the Polish map. The only reason I can think of is the sensibility of the subject. I'm not sure if Poles would be happy to see their ravaged capital in the game... but then again, history is history even if it hurts.

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll edit it once the forum stops being so jerky and stabilises (I got quite a few errors in the last hour). :)

 

I don't think this is that sensitive of a topic. As a matter of fact, showing people how devastated this city was in 1945 could be a good thing. Educational.

 

The topic is sensitive only because there are discussions whether the insurgence that led to the city being destroyed should have been started in the first place. And there's the red army just casually stopping their offensive and waiting for the Germans to crush the resistance and level the city to the ground...but again, it's educational for people to understand it happened.


 

Though the red army thing will probably be the reason why this map will never be introduced. Excellent work nevertheless.


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 06 February 2019 - 12:56 PM.


grizly1973 #15 Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:34 PM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 06 February 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

I don't think this is that sensitive of a topic. As a matter of fact, showing people how devastated this city was in 1945 could be a good thing. Educational.

 

The topic is sensitive only because there are discussions whether the insurgence that led to the city being destroyed should have been started in the first place. And there's the red army just casually stopping their offensive and waiting for the Germans to crush the resistance and level the city to the ground...but again, it's educational for people to understand it happened.


 

Though the red army thing will probably be the reason why this map will never be introduced. Excellent work nevertheless.

 

Thank you! Let's hope WG can get over The Red Army being "the bad guy" and think about introducing the map for the sake of it's importance and historical value.

NineMonthsAndItsYouSadly #16 Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:54 PM

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View PostSilviettaG, on 06 February 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hello guys,

 

I removed some non constructive comments.

 

Please follow our Forum Rules - http://forum.worldof...24-forum-rules/

 

Thank you! Have a nice day! :bajan:

 

Thank you for making it clear you dont take lightly any form of criticism. I will repeat myself again: WG sucks at making new maps and they completely ruined some of the old ones so the idea of having new Warsaw map is nice but in practice it will be bad. Fix the old maps then start making new ones.

grizly1973 #17 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:50 AM

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View PostNineMonthsAndItsYouSadly, on 07 February 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

 

Thank you for making it clear you dont take lightly any form of criticism. I will repeat myself again: WG sucks at making new maps and they completely ruined some of the old ones so the idea of having new Warsaw map is nice but in practice it will be bad. Fix the old maps then start making new ones.

 

OOF. Anyways, I believe that any bad map can be made good if changes are made to the layout, be them minor or major, any map can be fixed. I take criticism in any form you want to deliver it (and I'm happy to debate), but watch out so you don't break the forum rules! :P

PowJay #18 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:58 AM

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It took me a moment to even think what "Windstorm" was. I actually liked this map but admit that I only just found out that it had gone.

 

My particular issue with maps FULL STOP has nothing to do with their individual design, but their time in rotation. Paris seems to come around every single day- at least once. Ensk seems to be every other battle some days. Some days I cannot get away from Himmelsdorf in any tank at any tier, and yet many days I am lucky to see Malinovka or Prokhorovka and never, obviously, when playing LTs for spotting missions.


 

I don't care how many maps they have and how good, or bad, they are. What I want is a fair system of map rotation with a fair mix of open, city and mixed maps changed as often as reasonably possible. After that, they can make maps that range from football pitches to small Italian towns with streets that a Fiat Panda can just about get through.

 

Edit- You couldn't make it up: Five battles and I have already had both Ensk and Paris- and Fjords as well, another map that always seems to be in rotation.


And again, Edit. Glacier. And lost. Again. And now I am on Studzianka for the first time in three days. Then Ruinberg. Another map that is in rotation constantly. I've not seen Himmelsdorf in three days, though. :great:

 

Ensk a second time.


Edited by PowJay, 08 February 2019 - 10:44 AM.


LordMuffin #19 Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:43 PM

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In general city maps or part city maps are disliked.

Just like arty Paris, 2/3 city 1/3 field. Heavily disliked.
Ruinberg 2/3 city, 1/3 field, heavily disliked.
Ensk 3/4 city 1/4;field, heavily disliked.

But also.
Abbey 1/3 city 2/3 non-city.

City is somewhat problematic since they restrict movements and can easily be made to important (in what they cover).
As a map design, I think you should look at removing cities completely or have them almost completely removed. And then work with movements of tanks.

straszny_cienias #20 Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:35 PM

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Exactly. We have enough city maps, we don't need more. Even if city buildings would take only the part of the map. I appreciate the work you did, Grizly. Really professional job. But what i miss now in the game is more open maps with no tunnels.





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