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An idea how to fix access to no go areas in WoT for good


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Razzupaltuff #1 Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:50 PM

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Hi,

 

I dunno whether this or a similar idea has been brought up before, so I present mine here.

 

Problem is that whatever WG does, players always find ways to access map positions that should be inaccessible. I think the current approach of determining all potential access routes and disabling them by application of the game's physics is doomed to fail. There are just to many such routes, and every change to a map or introduction of a new map may introduce new ones.

 

So how about handling all black minimap areas so that if a vehicle stays there for more than 10 secs, it gets hit by a massive arty strike. Or turn them into mined areas, where anti tank mines deal massive damage to vehicles passing over them. Landmines would respawn after a short time. (I would prefer the landmine approach, as this makes more sense gameplay wise than having arbitrary arty strikes on select parts of the map). Problem solved. I think this would be easy to implement. Just create a 2D no go area map for each map and map player positions to that map. If they are in a death zone, warn them, and if they don't leave asap, hit them. Just like in the Frontline mode when a sector has been conquered and the defenders have to leave. Only punish trespassers much faster. That would be much easier than finding and changing all possible passages to such areas so that you cannot climb up anymore, since this approach isn't physics based and doesn't have to cover dozens and dozens of potential access routes.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:09 PM

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The code is already in the game to do a damage over time effect from Frontline mode. All they have to do is mark areas of the map to apply that effect to.

Razzupaltuff #3 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 07 February 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

 All they have to do is mark areas of the map to apply that effect to.

 

Yeah, that's where my idea with the 2D no go area maps kicks in. You can already see such areas in the minimap. Basically, whenever a vehicle enters a such a dark gray hatched area on the minimap, it would become susceptible to landmine damage after a short period of time. If the minimap is too inaccurate, create hires maps containing the no go areas with sufficient precision and use these internally. Shouldn't be a big deal, and a whole lot easier to maintain across map changes than having to identify new access routes to no go areas.



Cobra6 #4 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:15 PM

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I actually quite like this approach, none destructive for normal players but very effective to people who can't resist the urge to get unfair advantages over other players. (as not all tanks can climb to all areas).

 

Cobra 6



Geno1isme #5 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:29 PM

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Well, already suggested that about a year ago:

 

- tank enters a no-go area: he gets shown a warning symbol and a timer starts (15 seconds or so)

- if the timer runs out and he is still in the area an airstrike is initiated that will arrive a few seconds later

- if he leaves the area the timer and airstrike are cancelled

 

Basically similar to driving through water, just instead of drowning you get bombed to death. 15 seconds should be enough to pass through a no-go area e.g. when sliding down a hill.

 

Given that it took WG almost four years to implement my idea of a shop system for CW rewards we might see something like that in 2021.


Edited by Geno1isme, 07 February 2019 - 04:36 PM.


rhwh #6 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:35 PM

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i think they should keep access to this areas, as long as it doesnt mean glitching under the map or behind a wall where you can shoot but the enemies cant or something silly like that.

Ok i dont know any of those positions or how impactful they are but my experience from other games is that things like this will keep the game exciting, its always nice to discover something new or a cool position thats out of the normal way. It gives people who put time into learning maps properly an advantage over people who dont, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

zlaja031 #7 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:41 PM

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Why we need such system in the first place? WG can't model properly a single map in the game. 

wEight_Tanker #8 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:36 PM

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Isn't it easier to add invisible walls?

vorlontank #9 Posted 07 February 2019 - 05:42 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 07 February 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I actually quite like this approach, none destructive for normal players but very effective to people who can't resist the urge to get unfair advantages over other players. (as not all tanks can climb to all areas).

 

Cobra 6

 

there may be more now these tanks can go over 100k, may find new boost areas?

slitth #10 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostRazzupaltuff, on 07 February 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

Hi,

 

I dunno whether this or a similar idea has been brought up before, so I present mine here.

 

Problem is that whatever WG does, players always find ways to access map positions that should be inaccessible. I think the current approach of determining all potential access routes and disabling them by application of the game's physics is doomed to fail. There are just to many such routes, and every change to a map or introduction of a new map may introduce new ones.

 

So how about handling all black minimap areas so that if a vehicle stays there for more than 10 secs, it gets hit by a massive arty strike. Or turn them into mined areas, where anti tank mines deal massive damage to vehicles passing over them. Landmines would respawn after a short time. (I would prefer the landmine approach, as this makes more sense gameplay wise than having arbitrary arty strikes on select parts of the map). Problem solved. I think this would be easy to implement. Just create a 2D no go area map for each map and map player positions to that map. If they are in a death zone, warn them, and if they don't leave asap, hit them. Just like in the Frontline mode when a sector has been conquered and the defenders have to leave. Only punish trespassers much faster. That would be much easier than finding and changing all possible passages to such areas so that you cannot climb up anymore, since this approach isn't physics based and doesn't have to cover dozens and dozens of potential access routes.

 

How about a gas attack, then they can just use the drowning effect, just on land

Homer_J #11 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:23 PM

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View PostRazzupaltuff, on 07 February 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

So how about handling all black minimap areas

 

First you have to make sure all those areas are correctly marked.  Which means determining which areas are supposed to be no go areas.  Then you have to code the minefield or arty strike or whatever.  And test it all works as intended.  Which is all more work than just blocking the areas off as they are found.

ortega456 #12 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:29 PM

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I don't think that blocking those areas is the way to go. I think good driving should be rewarded with better positions, especially for UP light tanks.

Why dumb the game down?  Some places are hard to reach but EVERYBODY can learn to climb then so why on Earth is something every body can do considered unfair?

I mean if one player shots better than another you wanna block his aim because he has an unfair advantage?
I understand a jp e100 shouldn't be able to take invincible positions but why not give at least light tanks some advantage in order to make them a bit more competitive?

SlyMeerkat #13 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:54 PM

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I would support the banning of such players that do that stuff in Randoms

bnmm113 #14 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:05 PM

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how about just autospotting for players in those areas

Bordhaw #15 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:14 PM

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View PostRazzupaltuff, on 07 February 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

Hi,

 

I dunno whether this or a similar idea has been brought up before, so I present mine here.

 

Problem is that whatever WG does, players always find ways to access map positions that should be inaccessible. I think the current approach of determining all potential access routes and disabling them by application of the game's physics is doomed to fail. There are just to many such routes, and every change to a map or introduction of a new map may introduce new ones.

 

So how about handling all black minimap areas so that if a vehicle stays there for more than 10 secs, it gets hit by a massive arty strike. Or turn them into mined areas, where anti tank mines deal massive damage to vehicles passing over them. Landmines would respawn after a short time. (I would prefer the landmine approach, as this makes more sense gameplay wise than having arbitrary arty strikes on select parts of the map). Problem solved. I think this would be easy to implement. Just create a 2D no go area map for each map and map player positions to that map. If they are in a death zone, warn them, and if they don't leave asap, hit them. Just like in the Frontline mode when a sector has been conquered and the defenders have to leave. Only punish trespassers much faster. That would be much easier than finding and changing all possible passages to such areas so that you cannot climb up anymore, since this approach isn't physics based and doesn't have to cover dozens and dozens of potential access routes.

 

Or they could just make better maps from the start and not make 70% of the map "mountains" in the first place. 

psychobear #16 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:06 AM

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View PostBordhaw, on 07 February 2019 - 11:14 PM, said:

 

Or they could just make better maps from the start and not make 70% of the map "mountains" in the first place. 

 

This^^^.

 

I wonder why there are no climbs on Prokhorovka. Could it be becouse it's one of the two or three maps in the game that are actually well designed? 



PowJay #17 Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:49 AM

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Surely if WG can identify the no-go areas then all they need to do is block them with buildings, walls, rocks, steeper slopes or whatever is most appropriate. Why bring in some BS airstrike or minefield etc?

 

WG are already striving to reduce them, but if players are finding ways around it, they will have to try again next update. I can't say that I have seen many or any at all in use recently. The most annoying thing about them, for me, was idiots on my team wasting half the battle time trying to climb instead of fighting.



Geno1isme #18 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:06 AM

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View PostPowJay, on 08 February 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

Surely if WG can identify the no-go areas then all they need to do is block them with buildings, walls, rocks, steeper slopes or whatever is most appropriate. Why bring in some BS airstrike or minefield etc?

 

Because there is a significant difference between defining an area, and identifying all potential access routes to that area. The latter is always a game of catching up with the exploiters, while the suggested approach is proactive.

PowJay #19 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:14 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 08 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

Because there is a significant difference between defining an area, and identifying all potential access routes to that area. The latter is always a game of catching up with the exploiters, while the suggested approach is proactive.

 

OK. I get where you are coming from. Fair comment.

Razzupaltuff #20 Posted 10 February 2019 - 10:52 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 07 February 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

First you have to make sure all those areas are correctly marked.  Which means determining which areas are supposed to be no go areas.  Then you have to code the minefield or arty strike or whatever.  And test it all works as intended.  Which is all more work than just blocking the areas off as they are found.

 

I beg to differ. Just look at the minimaps: These areas are already marked here. All you need to create is similar 2D maps with a sufficiently high resolution to be able to properly determine whether a tank is in such an area or not. The landmine effect would be a variant of Frontline's air strike. This is a simple position detection and conditional damage algorithm. It is neither hard to implement nor hard to test.
21:53 Added after 1 minute

View Postpsychobear, on 07 February 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

This^^^.

 

I wonder why there are no climbs on Prokhorovka. Could it be becouse it's one of the two or three maps in the game that are actually well designed? 

 

Prokhorovka, the mother of all camper maps, is properly designed? Aaaaalriiiiiight ...




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