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Matchmaker Tweaks: Next Steps


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Sedziwoj #61 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 07 February 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

Skill based MM will not be the solution you think it is. When you consider the "skill" metric you would measure and how these are easily inflated or hidden and how this would lead to "false confidence". People say they will be happy with skill based MM until they get it, and then you usually get complaints because they don't get to beat teams like they used to or you open the door to complaints at "not-fit-for-purpose" metrics used. 

 

It is best solution, as all online team games yous it (eg battlefield 5). Show me where people was unhappy from getting skill MM? Give example you talking, or made it up?

About skill MM is not to make equal teams, is to make balance teams. As I wrote in past, make 3 MM quota, first for 0- 6000 PR, 4000-8000PR, 6000+ PR, so some go in one quota some go in two, and if someone wait to long (10s? 30s?) he go to next quota, so waiting time be similar, and implementation will be easy.

About people complains about not owning noobs as they use to... sorry, but as member of WG you should think about most players, not about small part of player base. 

Why is so important for WG to add skill MM? Because then people go to game, lose because they get idiots in team (15-3 lose)  and they do more then half team combine, they say f*** it, and do something else => you lose player.

Next example, new player go in game, he know nothing, shot before turret traverse, not know about spotting etc. go in first battle, die from invisible tank, next die in first minute, next same... go play another game => you not get new players.

This is why even you add great event in weekend, but Anthem get Demo, I play only Anthem, because it was fun, in WoT its start to feel as job, in past I have so many battles there I win with skills and luck, today even I do a lot, if I have stupid team I will lose, if I have great team, and slow tank I do nothing. It is not fun. 

So stop saying this BS about people will complain about skill MM, if you add ELO style MM, yeah, people will eat you alive, but is not only option. (WoT is not Chess)

 

EDIT: and unique players, streamers and youtubers will say is bad for game, because they stop farm weak player => not see as good as they now. 


Edited by Sedziwoj, 07 February 2019 - 08:13 PM.


Sedziwoj #62 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:18 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 07 February 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

 

Its not that simple.

First of all, roflstomps happen also in ranked battles where theoretically people that have reached a certain levels are more or less pretty close in perforamnce and experience.

Secondly, (while having no proof), i am sure that even if you could put 15-15 absolutely identical performing players (lets say 15-15 QuickyBabies :P ), there will be sometimes a a 15-3 result. It just happens, its just a succesfull rush, or the LTs dying early, or whatever. I am sure you know that after 30k battles. 

 

Most importantly however. We could sit here and discuss dozens of scenarios, and we could try them all out. HOWEVER, the pool of players is not infinite!
Do the math, and you will see how many are in battles at the same time each moment. It's not infinite, its far from infinite!

 

After 03:00 in EU server (an average populated server, there are worst examples), if you try a game with tier 2-3-4, you will not get a game!

Asia or NA servers are way worse!

In peak times, (always about EU server) there are about 300-350 in queue to start a game. Now divide the tiers, the MM, any other filters that currently exist, and you only have 2-3 possible games to start in the next 30'' or so! Its not that simple. 

Do the math. 

Now that i'm writing this , there are 75K players online. Doesnt mean all have or will press the BATTLE button. Some are texting, some are AFK, some are of course playing. There are players in clans, in skirmishes, in advances, in training rooms, playing from tier 1 to tier 10, and in Grand Battles.  
 The end result is, when you DO hit the BATTLE button, there are 300-350 ppl in queue. Only 10 possible battles, without ANY filter, only 10possible battles, if you dont care about a tier1 facing a tier10. Introducing a single filter of +-2 tiers, instantly brings you to 2-3 possible battles. More filters, further divide this number. 
 You can of course choose to wait a bit. Sure. But how long? 

 

Is not about adding 30x QuickyBabies in one battle, because is random how wins, is about u lose 99% if XVM shows 33% (1% is then people in enemy team see 33% and play as donkey).

And your example with how many players are in queue is only queue not playing. And do you think why less and less players play WoT? Yeah, is because is not fun to play, then you do nothing in game, or do as half of team and lose anyway.



Anastasia100 #63 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:24 PM

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hahahahaHAAAA :D you need ONLY two years to figure that 3-5-7 is the greatest mestake of your "developer team" ? :facepalm: Lets forget the fact that players cry about that at least 20 months...but noooo, lets blame queue and other irrelevant things now......

And by the way, with my tier VIII vehicles I don't play against tier IX "most often"....I play against tier X most often!!! To be precise about 90% of battles, there is a tier X against my tier VIII and actually, I forgot how it is to play against tier VI with tier VIII....



wsatnutter #64 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:40 PM

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can all the people bitching already just bloody wait till its implemented and you have played for the [edited]love of god

Smegger213 #65 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:42 PM

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Block Quote

 The matchmaker’s primary goal is getting you into battle as quickly as possible.

 

I just love this statement in your article.

 

Wargaming, when are you going to wake up to the fact that most players would rather wait a bit longer in the queue, if it meant they would get into a fairer battle.



MetalDragon76 #66 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:49 PM

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If this will come, I will leave wot. Immediately. 

Cro006 #67 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:58 PM

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3 words - skill based platoons

I don't want skill based MM, but I'd love to see skill based platoons. It's silly when your top tier platoon is made of 46%-ers in leopards and enemies have platoon of 58%-ers in 430's... it's just silly.

also, arties should be always bottom tier, so tier 10 arties can only shoot tier 10s, tier 9 arties can shoot tier 9 and 10's and so on. And arty players would actually like that, more HP to farm :D


Edited by Cro006, 07 February 2019 - 09:01 PM.


Obsessive_Compulsive #68 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostCro006, on 07 February 2019 - 08:58 PM, said:

3 words - skill based platoons

I don't want skill based MM, but I'd love to see skill based platoons. It's silly when your top tier platoon is made of 46%-ers in leopards and enemies have platoon of 58%-ers in 430's... it's just silly.

also, arties should be always bottom tier, so tier 10 arties can only shoot tier 10s, tier 9 arties can shoot tier 9 and 10's and so on. And arty players would actually like that, more HP to farm :D

 

that is not 3 words. I am not counting them as I am not the best with numbers but according to my fingers its way more than 3.

Edited by Obsessive_Compulsive, 07 February 2019 - 09:03 PM.


Cro006 #69 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:10 PM

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View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 07 February 2019 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

that is not 3 words. I am not counting them as I am not the best with numbers but according to my fingers its way more than 3.

 

skill (1) based (2) platoons (3)

jack_timber #70 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:18 PM

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View Postwsatnutter, on 07 February 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

can all the people bitching already just bloody wait till its implemented and you have played for the [edited]love of god

 

 Well said.... Folks are to impatient and push "their" ideas, like a load of school kids in class all with their hands up....

Dillstrom #71 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:29 PM

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You need to balance the battles by skill. Make a poll, what is the biggest reason for players not enjoying the game anymore, and I bet one-sided battles are one of the top reasons, I know it's #1 for me. I don't care about the gold spam, or arty, or being bottom tier all the time, or unbalanced maps. I hate unbalanced teams. Especially with 3-5-7 MM, the top tier tanks have such important role, or they can have that. If I play 10 battles a day with 3-5-7 MM, at least in half of them our top tier tank is totally useless, either a heavy or a medium. And the enemy top tier heavy/medium gets 3k damage and 5 kills while ours camps in the base, as he has done for the last 15 000 battles, judging by the 45% winrate.

 

I'm sure WG has all kinds of statistics about different players and actually you don't even need WG to analyze what players do in the battle. Look at WN8, like it or not, it basically tells how much people do damage aka. how usefull they are. Sure light tanks can have bad WN8 and good winrate, but seriously, when was the last time you saw that? Or vice versa, good WN8 but bad winrate.

 

Some players just don't have what it takes to play this game, to be a member of a team, like the skills to use WASD or a mouse. I have never experienced too much waiting time in the queue, but after introducing the 3-5-7 MM, I've been more frustrated than ever by incompetent morons. You can tweak your MM to have 5-5-5 or 7-8, but the real problem stays the same: players that never do anything in the battle. I guess you can limit their importance with different templates, maybe you should make like individual templates: first you have to play 5-5-5 as bottom tier, if you can be useful to your team you advance to 7-8 as top tier, then 5-5-5 as top tier, then 3-5-7 as top tier or something similar.



Bordhaw #72 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:32 PM

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View PostCommunity, on 07 February 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

Take a look at our plans for the matchmaker coming this year.
<a href="https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/matchmaker-status-update/">The full text of the news item</a>

 

Ah so it wasn't the matchmaker, tanks, classes, or skills that was the issue is was the queues. The one thing that nobody complains about. 

PanzerPjotr #73 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:36 PM

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I'll be the third to emphasize the fact that all this fiddling about with templates and tier compositions is only part of the problem. The MAIN problem is unequal skill MM, compounded by this 3-5-7 template. One or more highly skilled player in top tier on one side and a majority of less experienced players on the other side only leads to games that end in 15-5 scores (or worse) and finished in under 5 minutes, that is so utterly frustrating and unsatisfying! Fast MM is nice, but I would rather play a game that lasts for the full length and in a score that reflects the effort that was needed to achieve it. Either 14-15 or 15-14 or something like that. Now you are likely to play three games in the same time, where one side just gets eliminated very quickly, never mind which side. A 15-3 score is just as unsatisfactory as a 3-15 score. When are you people at WG finally gonna realize that unequal skill MM is the worst evil in this game.

 

I don't advocate good against good and bad against bad. Just make the distribution of skill equal on both sides. You can do it with tank types, why not with skill (based on personal score). And btw, games with 7 TD's on each side are very unsatisfactory also (camp camp camp). Finally..... why so stubbornly adhering to three tier MM. Switch to one or two tier MM!! No more tier VIII encountering tier X. Tier VIII can only meet Tier VII or Tier IX, you know what that means!! Just do it. Or explain in a comprehensible manner why skill based and two tier MM is not desirable in this game! And not with stupid graphs like this subject. Moving width of certain  bars when switching between "before" and "after".........that might fly in Russia, but we in Europe like to be able to make sense of the arguments that lead to certain changes. So WE can form an opinion of our own regarding this game we like to play so much.

 

While I am at it. Less than two or three months ago out of the blue, it was preferential MM tanks that were ff'in up the MM. We need to adjust and rebalance. Some shitstorm that kicked up what what!!!! And now it is "Oooh those poor preferential MM tanks are getting the short end of the stick with this MM, we need to change it (hardly) so they can benefit". Before communicating half-cocked ideas that make no sense, WG be better off hiring some more Western Europeans with game experience and common sense to inform our Belarussian friends how client relations are best served in EUROPE. I hate to say this, but the past 7 decades of history have made (Western)Europeans more experienced to notice when "the man" is trying to send us up the creek without a paddle. So please stop trying to convince us we are being offered gold when in fact it is manure! And ultimately finally I would like to state that I believe most of us would have no problems if the waiting time in queues needs to be a bit longer to make the above mentioned possible. Not at all my friends!!

 



zzarac #74 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:41 PM

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View PostPanzerPjotr, on 07 February 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

Just make the distribution of skill equal on both sides.

 

 

What you're saying is: good players (especially in platoons) need to be punished by matchmaking them into a team full of red players? Yes, that will do wonders for the game.



vonadnan #75 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:52 PM

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Halelluyah, at least I hope it is.. Yesterday I was playing that abomination amx 65t and thinking how much plesaure is to go up against obj 140, 430U, 277,Wz111a ,IS 7, S.Qonq, sh.tBarn..etc, non-stop..That and Tiger 2, or for that mather anything apart few "competitive" (insert russian bias) tanks, same goes for tier 6..

Captain_Tickle #76 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:24 PM

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In December, really?  Even though in July you said it would be difficult and could take up to 6 Months.  The tweaked MM has been on the Asia server for over 2 months, and the players seem much happier with it.  It might not be perfect in your eyes, but surely WG, you could have rolled it out onto the other servers soon after, and then tweaked that, rather than leave us for almost 8 months with the previous much hated template based system.

 

EDIT: Just read they changed the Asia server back, as it was only a test whilst data was being assessed. Right... I think many of us can guess the real reason.


Edited by Captain_Tickle, 07 February 2019 - 10:32 PM.


Homer_J #77 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:41 PM

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Is it just me but doesn't the "new matchmaker with dynamic templates" sound a lot like the old matchmaker?

 

Nice to see the fixed template idea has been accepted as a failure though, the new one should bring back a bit of the variety we used to have.



Andy_Tanker #78 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:59 PM

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How is 4-5-6 template any better than 3-5-7 (when u have 1 extra tier 10 to crap on the tier 8s) or the fact that ppl with pref MM tanks complain about always being in +1 matches when some of the tier 8  preferential premiums are better than their regular counterparts(ex: Type 59 and T34-3) and they only get +1- MM.

FendaBenda #79 Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:32 PM

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ROFLSTOMPS ??
MM needs to share the noobs based on the tanks chosen and the players record in it- likely some differnece to 'skill' is pressing the 2 key more often but the last 100 battles should show this.. some spamming during 3 marking goes on.

Lot of players grinded to tier 10 - and i do meant grind - 80k battles and a low WR - that really costs money to appear in those battles - i'm on arond 48.5 wr with 50k battles and a couple of 10s and more unlocked but I can't afford tose battles where my team camp, suicide and TK etc - my current stats are better than overall coz i had  a bad comp and loved to yolo, add a disability and it's pretty much a case of never being much better than average considering the tech tree choices i made, the grinding of everything. Not making excuses, just saying the MM based on experience per unit would factor this in and even a winning roflstomp is no fun if you play a slow vehicle

The MM got so bad, and the comp so freakin messy I ended up palying arty more - especially as it gives no FFFF about MM and can be handled without prem ammo that is thrown around all over the palce by RNG

RNG sould be improved - premium ammo going inder a tank at 100 m from a jagdtiger - accuarte gun - i don't think so

 

Kothaar #80 Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:45 PM

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So the angry kids of WOT got a reaction from game developers. Hint: if you feel your tier 6 tank spends too much time as bottom tier in the battle, play tier 7 instead.




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